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Author Topic: Bishop Williamson 2018: sedevacantism and Bishop Faure's seminary  (Read 3305 times)

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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Bishop Williamson 2018: sedevacantism and Bishop Faure's seminary
« Reply #10 on: June 04, 2019, 02:59:03 PM »
Quote from: CatholicInAmerica on June 04, 2019, 12:05:37 PM
Can you explain sede doubtism?

It's basically a middle road.  I agree that individual Catholics cannot go around deposing Popes, but I also agree with the sedevacantists that if they are certainly Popes then we owe them our submission.  But I consider their status to be objectively doubtful.  Consequently, we can reject their teachings and their authority without schism.  I can go into more details, but that's it in a nutshell.  You see, normally we accept Popes with the certainty of faith.  If we do not have that certainty of faith regarding their legitimacy, we are NOT IN FACT SEDEPLENISTS in the true sense, but rather what I have called (partly tongue-in-cheek) sede-doubtists.  And both +Lefebvre and +Williamson and +Tissier have expressed doubts (or at least lack of 100% certainty of faith).  Consequently they do not hold them legitimate with the requisite certainty of faith and are not therefore true sedeplenists.
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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Bishop Williamson 2018: sedevacantism and Bishop Faure's seminary
« Reply #11 on: June 04, 2019, 03:30:38 PM »
Quote from: ByzCat3000 on June 04, 2019, 01:06:17 PM
It’s possible both to reject strict sedeplenism in the sense that ladislaus describes, to say that the Church might yet declare one or more of these popes are in fact antipopes, AND yet say that to be a Sedevacantist and to overtly reject communion with these men while they are recognized by the Catholic world as pope sin schismatic.

I’m not sure if that’s what lefebvre thought, or even if that’s correct, but I see no logical inconsistency on it

Once you express doubts, though, you cannot call those who refuse communion with them schismatics, since if there's serious positive doubt then communion/submission is not required.  That's been taught explicitly by a number of Catholic canonists.
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Offline 2Vermont

Re: Bishop Williamson 2018: sedevacantism and Bishop Faure's seminary
« Reply #12 on: June 04, 2019, 03:34:49 PM »
I think the "sede-doubtist" opinion is basically the opinion of the SSPV, CatholicinAmerica,
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Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: Bishop Williamson 2018: sedevacantism and Bishop Faure's seminary
« Reply #13 on: June 04, 2019, 04:00:19 PM »

Quote
I think the "sede-doubtist" opinion is basically the opinion of the SSPV, 
If this were true, then dogmatic sedevacantism wouldn’t exist.  As it is, many sedes (including the priests) treat other Trads as if sedevacantism is 100% certain, which it isn’t.  
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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Bishop Williamson 2018: sedevacantism and Bishop Faure's seminary
« Reply #14 on: June 04, 2019, 04:02:35 PM »
Quote from: 2Vermont on June 04, 2019, 03:34:49 PM
I think the "sede-doubtist" opinion is basically the opinion of the SSPV, CatholicinAmerica,

That's my feeling as well.  I've seen Father Jenkins in particular articulate a very similar position.
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