Author Topic: Should SSPX accept the Prelature offer made by Pope Francis? (Read 6024 times)

OHCA · « **Reply #30 on:** September 11, 2016, 06:51:38 AM »

Quote from: snowball

Rome will never be transformed without tradition inside
of her. The other route is schism.

SSPX would have about as much influence on Rome as fart in a hurricane. In fact, SSPX has more leverage in the negotiation process than it will have once it is "inside." But transforming Rome isn't even on the table in these negotiations--it's all about where the nigger entrances are going to be for SSPXers and how many nigger water fountains they can have.

Incredulous · « **Reply #31 on:** September 11, 2016, 11:10:27 AM »

Quote from: OHCA

Quote from: snowball
Rome will never be transformed without tradition inside
of her. The other route is schism.

SSPX would have about as much influence on Rome as fart in a hurricane. In fact, SSPX has more leverage in the negotiation process than it will have once it is "inside." But transforming Rome isn't even on the table in these negotiations--it's all about where the nigger entrances are going to be for SSPXers and how many nigger water fountains they can have.

Your imagery is definitely Southern.

And let's not forget, the other modern sins....

These Hurricanes, are man-made and named only after white women.

Last Tradhican · « **Reply #32 on:** September 11, 2016, 11:35:49 AM »

Quote from: Cato

Quote from: Last Tradhican
...The only difference between today and the 1970's is that today the evil in Rome is totally obvious to everyone (Bergolio is in the raw, unlike JPII & B16 that could fool the people), so why would a son of Abp. Lefebvre want to join Rome now? Only one reason, they have been slow boiled over time. For the young, they never were SSPX.

SSPX never left Rome. Vatican flags still sit next to its alters and pictures of Francis are in the narthex.

Now some traditional Catholics believe Rome has fallen into heresy and is a new and different religion. And, they have deluded themselves into thinking that the SSPX was or is, a separate religious entity - perhaps keeping true to the faith. They have created, or bought, into some sort of "founding myth" that the Archbishop bravely saw the errors of Vatican II and went out and started (or maintained) his own religion to preserve true Christianity. They believe that Bishop Fellay became corrupt and is trying to "rejoin" Rome and destroy what the Archbishop created.

Even Roman authorities have made a similar mistake. Even minor Novos Ordo bishops often make the mistake in assuming that because SSPX isn't neatly within the Roman power structure it must be in schism.

The SSPX has always been part of Rome; Bishop Fellay is only seeking some sort of regularization.

This gentleman proves my point, the only way an SSPXer would think this way is "Only one reason, they have been slow boiled over time. For the young, they never were SSPX".

snowball · « **Reply #33 on:** September 11, 2016, 05:45:07 PM »

Quote from: OHCA

Quote from: snowball
Rome will never be transformed without tradition inside
of her. The other route is schism.

SSPX would have about as much influence on Rome as fart in a hurricane. In fact, SSPX has more leverage in the negotiation process than it will have once it is "inside." But transforming Rome isn't even on the table in these negotiations--it's all about where the nigger entrances are going to be for SSPXers and how many nigger water fountains they can have.

this is not a good attitude.
generations are changing, the new blood might be attracted
to older ways.
nobody has addressed the fact that the SSPX is supposedly
not sede vacante. maybe this deal can be improved, or embellished
with stronger details, stronger presence mandated within the church.

however, if no deal can ever be made, then someone's going
to have to announce their own pope, or they're not catholic
anymore.

Maria Regina · « **Reply #34 on:** September 11, 2016, 07:29:23 PM »

Quote from: truthchaser

From my earliest days as a convert to the Catholic Faith (long before Vatican II), I was taught to keep clear of bad company, and also to avoid the occasions of sin. There is plenty of evidence to suggest that the present occupants of the seats of power in the Vatican would undeniably be bad company, and I have little doubt that their attitude to Tradition, and the lack of good example in their daily lives, could surreptitiously weaken my Faith and lead me into occasions of sin.

I have no wish to go along that path, and I cannot believe that the Director General of the SSPX would want to take it either.

I support all four of the intentions behind Bishop Fellay's 2016/17 Rosary Crusade, and I trust that the Immaculate Heart of Mary will protect us during these interminable discussions.

My vision is kind of fuzzy today -- and, no it is not the heat -- one of our neighbors had contractors spray their home with one of those new types of stucco yesterday. Anyway, the neighborhood has been smelling of paint funes for two days now.

So, when I first read this post, and did a double take.

I saw:

"I cannot believe that the Funeral Director of the SSPX would want to take it either."

That description fits Fellay to a tee, for the SSPX is being buried indeed.

snowball · « **Reply #35 on:** September 12, 2016, 03:38:08 PM »

+Fellay's speech in New Zealand, broken into 6 parts:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCZAyK-nfVCIdn1gLsCXGIkg

I watched it all last night, some revealing info.

IMO.

Pax Vobis · « **Reply #36 on:** September 12, 2016, 04:14:41 PM »

Quote

Snowball says:
Refusing this offer would be grounds for irrevocable excommunication.

"What in the heck are you talking about?" comment #1.

Quote

Rome will never be transformed without tradition inside of her. The other route is schism.

"What in the heck are you talking about?" comment #2.

Quote

however, if no deal can ever be made, then someone's going
to have to announce their own pope, or they're not catholic
anymore.

"What in the heck are you talking about?" comment #3.

The SSPX + Rome = A "snowball's" chance in hell of staying Catholic.

Last Tradhican · « **Reply #37 on:** September 12, 2016, 05:32:07 PM »

Quote from: Last Tradhican

The only difference between today and the 1970's is that today the evil in Rome is totally obvious to everyone (Bergolio is in the raw, unlike JPII & B16 that could fool the people), so why would a son of Abp. Lefebvre want to join Rome now? ~~Only one reason, they have been slow boiled over time. For the young, they never were SSPX~~.

The big question for supporters of the deal: Why do you want a deal NOW that Bergolio is the "pope"?

RogerThat · « **Reply #38 on:** September 12, 2016, 09:01:35 PM »

Quote from: Last Tradhican

Quote from: Last Tradhican
The only difference between today and the 1970's is that today the evil in Rome is totally obvious to everyone (Bergolio is in the raw, unlike JPII & B16 that could fool the people), so why would a son of Abp. Lefebvre want to join Rome now? ~~Only one reason, they have been slow boiled over time. For the young, they never were SSPX~~.

The big question for supporters of the deal: Why do you want a deal NOW that Bergolio is the "pope"?

It is not so much WANTING a deal; it is more about having a deal that we rightly deserve on paper, officially. Also, this official structure in the church would ease the minds of many people that think the SSPX is schismatic (which it is not) or celebrates invalid confessions (which it does not). One cannot ignore Rome completely and claim to be Catholic. The history of the church is filled with great Popes, saints, and terrible popes who have destroyed the faith. Nonetheless, the Rome is Rome, the Rome of St. Pius and John XII, St. Pius V and Stephen VI, Alexander VI and Francis. Pope Francis has little to do with the equation. It has more to do with getting the terms that the superiors deem necessary and sufficient for the continued apostate of the Society which is "to preserve the Catholic Faith in its fullness and purity, to teach its truths, and to diffuse its virtues, especially through the Roman Catholic priesthood" nothing more, nothing less.

Last Tradhican · « **Reply #39 on:** September 13, 2016, 12:24:52 AM »

Quote from: RogerThat

Quote from: Last Tradhican
Quote from: Last Tradhican
The only difference between today and the 1970's is that today the evil in Rome is totally obvious to everyone (Bergolio is in the raw, unlike JPII & B16 that could fool the people), so why would a son of Abp. Lefebvre want to join Rome now? ~~Only one reason, they have been slow boiled over time. For the young, they never were SSPX~~.

The big question for supporters of the deal: Why do you want a deal NOW that Bergolio is the "pope"?

It is not so much WANTING a deal; it is more about having a deal that we rightly deserve on paper, officially. Also, this official structure in the church would ease the minds of many people that think the SSPX is schismatic (which it is not) or celebrates invalid confessions (which it does not). One cannot ignore Rome completely and claim to be Catholic. The history of the church is filled with great Popes, saints, and terrible popes who have destroyed the faith. Nonetheless, the Rome is Rome, the Rome of St. Pius and John XII, St. Pius V and Stephen VI, Alexander VI and Francis. Pope Francis has little to do with the equation. It has more to do with getting the terms that the superiors deem necessary and sufficient for the continued apostate of the Society which is "to preserve the Catholic Faith in its fullness and purity, to teach its truths, and to diffuse its virtues, especially through the Roman Catholic priesthood" nothing more, nothing less.

Interesting that you made the mistake of writing the continued apostate of the Society which is "to preserve the Catholic Faith in its fullness and purity, to teach its truths, and to diffuse its virtues, especially through the Roman Catholic priesthood".

Prior to the conciliar popes, I do not know of any popes in the history of the Church, who destroyed the faith. Curious too that you should say destroyed the faith.

Why would you want "a deal that we rightly deserve on paper, officially" from a pope and hierarchy that destroyed the faith? It is like a faithful wife and mother of 10 children asking her husband who fooled around all through their wedded life and divorced her and left her to raise the children, to write a letter stating that she was a good and faithful wife.

Last Tradhican · « **Reply #40 on:** September 13, 2016, 12:41:21 AM »

Thank you for your response RogerThat. I thought this subject would be better treated if it had its own thread, so I made a new thread entitled "Why a Deal Now with Pope Francis?". Please continue there.

Arvinger · « **Reply #41 on:** September 13, 2016, 02:28:51 PM »

Quote from: OHCA

Quote from: snowball
Rome will never be transformed without tradition inside
of her. The other route is schism.

SSPX would have about as much influence on Rome as fart in a hurricane. In fact, SSPX has more leverage in the negotiation process than it will have once it is "inside." But transforming Rome isn't even on the table in these negotiations--it's all about where the nigger entrances are going to be for SSPXers and how many nigger water fountains they can have.

This. We have to define what we mean by "transformation". I think we all agree that transformation/conversion of Rome must include:

- nullifying Vatican II (and subsequent rejection of false ecuмenism, teaching on religious liberty etc.)
- abolishing the New Mass
- bringing back TLM worldwide
- Rome loudly preaching the necessity of Social Reign of Jesus Christ
- Rome loudly preaching EENS

Can SSPX have at least a glimmer of realistic hope for bringing about these goals from within the Conciliar Church? Obviously, no. All they can do is to make the Latin Mass a bit more popular. The naivity of "SSPX changing Conciliar Rome from within" approach is shocking to me.

Personally I believe that it is almost impossible to restore Catholicism in Rome with ordinary means, it will probably happen after the chastisement from the Third Secret of Fatima/Three Days of Darkness (I hope I'm wrong though).

Pax Vobis · « **Reply #42 on:** September 13, 2016, 03:16:08 PM »

Quote

The naivity of "SSPX changing Conciliar Rome from within" approach is shocking to me.

In some cases, it's naivity. In others, it's false hope. In most, it's the compromising urge of "not wanting to be different" which they cowardly disguise as pridefully wanting to "make the church great again", as if human beings can combat the wiles of the devil and his henchmen, who occupy rome. Lest we forget, St Paul told us: "For our wrestling is not against flesh and blood; but against principalities and power, against the rulers of the world of this darkness, against the spirits of wickedness in the high places." (Eph 6:12)

Incredulous · « **Reply #43 on:** September 15, 2016, 03:20:24 AM »

The final count in the 7-Day poll is 80% against a Francis Deal and 20% for it... with some of the latter conceding they voted for it, just to put an end to Bp. Fellay's Kabuki theater misery.

nctradcath · « **Reply #44 on:** September 15, 2016, 07:27:05 AM »

Best thread ever. I especially enjoyed the invocation to the false Saint of Opus Judei on how we should all be swindled.