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Author Topic: Rome to Revoke Summorum Pontificuм?  (Read 1883 times)

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Offline SeanJohnson

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Re: Rome to Revoke Summorum Pontificuм?
« Reply #15 on: April 24, 2020, 11:47:47 AM »
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    • A blunt little missive from Bishop Tissier:

    “Thank you for sending me a copy of Dr. Rama Coomarawamy’s pamphlet “Le Drame Anglican.”

    After reading it quickly, I concluded there was a doubt about the validity of episcopal consecration conferred according to the rite of Paul VI.

    The [phrase] “spiritum principalem” in the form introduced by Paul VI is not sufficiently clear in itself and the accessory rites do not specify its meaning in a Catholic sense.

    As regards Mgr Lazo, it would be difficult for us to explain these things to him; the only solution is not to ask him to confirm or ordain.

    Yours very truly in Our Lord Jesus Christ,
    +Bernard Tissier de Mallerais

    PS: Another thought: Mgr Lazo has already confirmed “quite a few” [people] with us. Obviously, this is valid because “the Church supplies” (canon 209), because a simple priest can confirm with jurisdiction. And it is difficult to see how to make our doubt known to Mgr Lazo. So silence and discretion about this, please!

    http://www.fathercekada.com/2013/11/28/sspx-bishops-on-bishops-and-bishops/
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    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline poche

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    Re: Rome to Revoke Summorum Pontificuм?
    « Reply #16 on: April 24, 2020, 11:32:15 PM »
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    • Quote from: Quo vadis Domine on April 24, 2020, 06:22:44 AM
    Unfortunately, that is the dilemma that non-sedevacantists have to deal with. No one has the competence, except the pope himself, to determine who is a saint worthy to be venerated.
    Do you think that Padre Pio is a saint worthy of being included in the liturgy?
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    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Rome to Revoke Summorum Pontificuм?
    « Reply #17 on: April 24, 2020, 11:37:43 PM »
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    • Quote from: poche on April 24, 2020, 11:32:15 PM
    Do you think that Padre Pio is a saint worthy of being included in the liturgy?
    Yes, but not because he was "canonized."
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    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline STLC

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    Re: Rome to Revoke Summorum Pontificuм?
    « Reply #18 on: April 24, 2020, 11:42:40 PM »
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    • How would SSPX react to Rome revoking SP? Revoking it would show hostility to tradition (even if Benedict XVI's actions of "preserving tradition" through SP were feigned).
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    Offline poche

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    Re: Rome to Revoke Summorum Pontificuм?
    « Reply #19 on: April 25, 2020, 01:51:04 AM »
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    • Quote from: SeanJohnson on April 24, 2020, 12:00:30 AM
    I recently warned the blinded SSPX that they would not be exempted from the recent Roman decrees incorporating new “saints” and Novus Ordo prefaces into the 1962 Missal (effectively making it a 2020 Missal) in two articles available here:

    http://tradcatresist.blogspot.com/2020/03/two-excellent-articles-by-sean-johnson.html?m=1

    Some tried to argue that the new decrees were only optional.

    Yet I rebutted that argument by noting the Roman modus operandi has remained the same since Vatican II:

    Stress the optional nature to dissipate resistance, then later make the measures mandatory.

    Now Rorate Coeli is reporting that Rome is sending a survey to all the bishops of the world, asking pointed questions about how Summorum Pontificuм has been implemented in their respective dioceses:

    https://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2020/04/breaking-important-summorum-under.html#more

    With the PCED dissolved into the CDF (ie., the Commission being largely obsolete, with the SSPX already largely regularized), and the new hybrid missal just promulgated (optional for now, but not for long), it isn’t difficult to see where this is going:

    Rome is laying the groundwork for abrogating SP, which, once the new 2020 hybrid Missal becomes mandatory, will be completely obsolete:

    The 1962 Missal having disappeared, the raison d’etre for the motu proprio serves no purpose.

    And just like that, the SSPX will have lost the 1962 Missal (which like their former PCED brothers, was pretty much the only thing they had been allowed to retain).

    Some people never learn.
    I think you are mistaken. The 1962 missal has not been abrogated. The new additions are completely optional. The new developments with respect to Summorum Pontificem are disconcerting but what happens remains to be seen. 
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    Offline Quo vadis Domine

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    Re: Rome to Revoke Summorum Pontificuм?
    « Reply #20 on: April 25, 2020, 03:25:10 AM »
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    • Quote from: poche on April 24, 2020, 11:32:15 PM
    Do you think that Padre Pio is a saint worthy of being included in the liturgy?
    Do you think that Roncalli, Montini, and Wojtyla are saints worthy of being included in the liturgy?
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    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Rome to Revoke Summorum Pontificuм?
    « Reply #21 on: April 25, 2020, 04:13:55 AM »
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    • Quote from: poche on April 25, 2020, 01:51:04 AM
    I think you are mistaken. The 1962 missal has not been abrogated. The new additions are completely optional. The new developments with respect to Summorum Pontificem are disconcerting but what happens remains to be seen.
    Please see OP regarding the allegedly “optional” nature of the decrees.
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    Offline poche

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    Re: Rome to Revoke Summorum Pontificuм?
    « Reply #22 on: April 25, 2020, 04:23:40 AM »
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    • Quote from: Quo vadis Domine on April 25, 2020, 03:25:10 AM
    Do you think that Roncalli, Montini, and Wojtyla are saints worthy of being included in the liturgy?
    What about the miracles that took place that certified the will of God that their holiness should be recognized?  
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    Offline confederate catholic

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    Re: Rome to Revoke Summorum Pontificuм?
    « Reply #23 on: April 25, 2020, 04:51:19 AM »
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    • Divine Mercy stuff has been promoted by some SSPX priests for year2, this is nothing new.

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    قامت مريم، ترتيل وفاء جحا و سلام جحا

    Offline Quo vadis Domine

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    Re: Rome to Revoke Summorum Pontificuм?
    « Reply #24 on: April 25, 2020, 04:54:44 AM »
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    • Quote from: poche on April 25, 2020, 04:23:40 AM
    What about the miracles that took place that certified the will of God that their holiness should be recognized?  
    There are more holes in their cases of canonization than a 15 pound wheel of Swiss cheese. Please!
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    For what doth it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his own soul? Or what exchange shall a man give for his soul?

    Offline cosmas

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    Re: Rome to Revoke Summorum Pontificuм?
    « Reply #25 on: April 25, 2020, 10:04:08 PM »
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    • If Rome revokes SP, The SSPX will have to either go in with Rome or stay out and be Excommunicated again along with probably all the independent priests. This is what Bishop Fellay gets when he fraternizes with the devil. I will stick with going to the Resistance. This Corona virus shutdown by SSPX opened my eyes very wide. Their cries of all of us " Fighting for The Right's of Christ The King " were evidently so much hot air !!! They had the opportunity and blew it tragically .
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    Offline ByzCat3000

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    Re: Rome to Revoke Summorum Pontificuм?
    « Reply #26 on: April 25, 2020, 10:44:20 PM »
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    • Quote from: SeanJohnson on April 24, 2020, 11:23:50 AM
    You should ask Archbishop Lefebvre, Bishop Tissier, Fr. Peter Scott, Fr. Calderon, or read SSPX articles from prior to the election of BXVI (all of whom/which cast doubts upon the validity of the new rites, and particularly the new rite of episcopal consecration).

    They didn’t seem to draw the same implications as you do (but the SSPX hasn’t changed!).

    Ps: Francis was ordained by Archbishop Castellano (who was himself consecrated according to the old Rite in 1946), so the concern regarding invalid ordination due to invalid episcopal consecration does not arise; the concern in validity of the new rite of priestly ordination due to defect in form is much weaker than that regarding defect of form in the new rite of episcopal consecration.
    That kind of makes sense to me... I can easily see how you could have sedeplensim while having invalid new rite episcopal consecrations pre 2005, but it doesn't make nearly as much intuitive sense post 2005 if you have a Pope who isn't even a bishop.

    I find it surprising that there aren't Sedes who think the See was vacant since only 2005, for this reason.
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    Offline STLC

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    Re: Rome to Revoke Summorum Pontificuм?
    « Reply #27 on: April 26, 2020, 05:43:01 AM »
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    • only two popes, Pius V and Pius X, were canonized as saints within the past 500 years before the Vatican II revolution. Since the Conciliar religion began in 1965, three of the anti-popes, John XXIII, Paul VI, JPII have been "canonized" in order to validate the counterfeit church masquerading as "Catholic". The Conciliar church is a "saint" gumball machine.
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