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Author Topic: Bishop Huonder Spreads His Wings over the SSPX  (Read 1846 times)

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Offline SeanJohnson

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Bishop Huonder Spreads His Wings over the SSPX
« on: February 06, 2020, 04:10:23 PM »
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  • https://cristiadatradicinalista.blogspot.com/2020/02/mgr-vitus-huonder-en-visite-officielle.html

    "Bishop Vitus Huonder on official visit to French-speaking Switzerland
    The official bulletin of the FSSPX in Switzerland (Le Rocher - February/March 2020 ) presents the official tour of Bishop Huonder in the district of Switzerland. Bishop Huonder, who has never publicly retracted his conciliar positions, had already preached several times in the chapel of Oberiet Priory in German-speaking Switzerland. He is now widening his circle of action with the agreement of the FSSPX authorities.  This tour is a way of officializing the integration of Bishop Huonder into the FSSPX.
    He was thus able to visit the houses of Geneva and go as far as Glis... passing by the school "Fleurs de Mai" where the children sang a hymn to him."



    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."


    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Bishop Huonder Spreads His Wings over the SSPX
    « Reply #1 on: February 06, 2020, 04:30:03 PM »
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  • P.1 of La Roche (above) translates as:

    "Episcopal tour of French-speaking Switzerland.

    This is the title that would suit this edition of the column.  

    As Monsignor Vitus Huonder does not yet know the confreres and the various establishments of the fraternity in French-speaking Switzerland, we set out together to discover them.

    During this two-day trip, I present to my host the main houses between Glis and Geneva.   While Monsignor Huonder receives a complete overview of our apostolate in French-speaking Switzerland, we also get a glimpse of the many facets of our country: fog and bright sunshine, winter landscape, frost and thaw, snowfall and rainfall - all in 36 hours!  Many thanks to all my colleagues for their warm welcome.

    During Monsignor Vitus Huonder's visit to Riddes, the pupils of the Fleur de Mai school sang for him the Christmas of the children of Marie de Saint Louis Marie Grignon de Montfort, a new hymn learned this year and which the children also had the opportunity to sing for the residents of the Jean-Paul home."

    P. 2 is in German, and it seems more or less to repeat what is in French on P.1 above.
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."


    Offline Nishant Xavier

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    Re: Bishop Huonder Spreads His Wings over the SSPX
    « Reply #2 on: February 06, 2020, 04:46:43 PM »
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  • Bp. Huonder is authorized by the Pope. It's not legitimate to refuse to accept visits from representatives of the Pope in Priories and Seminaries. Bp. Huonder is welcome.
    "We wish also to make amends for the insults to which Your Vicar on earth and Your Priests are everywhere subjected [above all by schismatic sedevacantists - Nishant Xavier], for the profanation, by conscious neglect or Terrible Acts of Sacrilege, of the very Sacrament of Your Divine Love; and lastly for the Public Crimes of Nations who resist the Rights and The Teaching Authority of the Church which You have founded." - Act of Reparation to the Sacred Heart of Lord Jesus.

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Bishop Huonder Spreads His Wings over the SSPX
    « Reply #3 on: February 06, 2020, 04:52:19 PM »
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  • Bp. Huonder is authorized by the Pope. It's not legitimate to refuse to accept visits from representatives of the Pope in Priories and Seminaries. Bp. Huonder is welcome.

    Indeed?

    When did the SSPX realize this?

    Quite recently apparently, as Bishop Tissier describes the unanimous strength of the sisters, who were all categorically opposed to any kind of arrangement (or even contact) with infected bishops and modernist Rome:

    "The Sisters were almost all categorical: “We cannot deal with bishops who have lost the Faith,” said the Dominicans of Fanjeux. The Sisters of Brignoles considered that depending on Rome would force them into having “contacts with their former congregations that are now modernist,” and “that is impossible.” The Society Sisters mentioned “the risk for the Faith and cohesion of Tradition.” Finally, the Carmelites said that it was “a Trojan horse within Tradition”
    https://tradidi.com/between-jansenism-and-mondernism (The Biography, Marcel Lefebvre by Bishop Tissier de Mallerais, pp. 558-559).

    And again:

    "The sisters of Saint-Michel-en-Brenne, the Dominican Sisters of Fanjeaux and Brignoles, are all against the agreement: "We should not depend on Ratzinger, they say... Imagine if he came to give us conferences! He would divide us!"

    Obviously, the old SSPX (and allies) were quite opposed not just to an accord with modernist authorities, but even contact or visitations with them (as the recent visitation to St. Michael School in England by the modernist bishop shows, with two SSPX Oblates leaving rather than subject their students to the diocesan modernist prelate): But the bishop did come, and the Oblates ARE now divided!

    There is certainly a new attitude, but it is not in Rome, but in Menzingen.
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline Nishant Xavier

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    Re: Bishop Huonder Spreads His Wings over the SSPX
    « Reply #4 on: February 06, 2020, 05:02:13 PM »
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  • Yes, Indeed. One should always receive Apostolic Visitors sent by Christ through His Vicar with respect and reverence. They come to us in the Name of Christ and as sent by Him. Remember Christ told His Apostles when He sent them out into the world, that whoever received them, received Him. But whoever despised them, despised Him. Do you wish to receive Christ, or perhaps to despise Him? Those who disagree about this teaching must be instructed on it, as the SSPX is doing.

    Mat 10:40 He that receiveth you, receiveth me: and he that receiveth me, receiveth him that sent me.

    Luk 10:16 He that heareth you heareth me: and he that despiseth you despiseth me: and he that despiseth me despiseth him that sent me.

    There have always been Apostolic and Canonical Visitations of the Seminaries of the SSPX right from its founding in 1970 50 years ago.
    "We wish also to make amends for the insults to which Your Vicar on earth and Your Priests are everywhere subjected [above all by schismatic sedevacantists - Nishant Xavier], for the profanation, by conscious neglect or Terrible Acts of Sacrilege, of the very Sacrament of Your Divine Love; and lastly for the Public Crimes of Nations who resist the Rights and The Teaching Authority of the Church which You have founded." - Act of Reparation to the Sacred Heart of Lord Jesus.


    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Bishop Huonder Spreads His Wings over the SSPX
    « Reply #5 on: February 06, 2020, 05:04:28 PM »
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  • Yes, Indeed. One should always respect Apostolic Visitors sent by Christ through His Vicar with respect and reverence. They come to us in the Name of Christ and as sent by Him. Remember Christ told His Apostles when He sent them out into the world, that whoever received them, received Him. But whoever despised them, despised Him. Do you wish to receive Christ, or perhaps to despise Him? Those who disagree about this teaching must be instructed on it, as the SSPX is doing.

    Mat 10:40 He that receiveth you, receiveth me: and he that receiveth me, receiveth him that sent me.

    Luk 10:16 He that heareth you heareth me: and he that despiseth you despiseth me: and he that despiseth me despiseth him that sent me.

    There have always been Apostolic and Canonical Visitations of the Seminaries of the SSPX right from its founding in 1970 50 years ago.

    Christ sends modernist heretics?

    Be careful!

    As for "there always having been apostolic and canonical visitations in the SSPX," that statement is absurd: There was the infamous visitation in 1974, after which Archbishop Lefebvre was so outraged at the heresies and scandalous behavior of the visitors, he composed the famous 1974 Declaration, denouncing the conciliar and modernist Church.  Shortly thereafter, the suppressed SSPX lost its temporary canonical authorization.  How then could Rome later have sent canonical visitors to a Society it claimed to have canonically suppressed?  
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline Nishant Xavier

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    Re: Bishop Huonder Spreads His Wings over the SSPX
    « Reply #6 on: February 06, 2020, 05:26:25 PM »
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  • Surely you are not unaware of the later Apostolic Visitation of Cardinal Gagnon several years later, who praised the Society, right? Yes, we know the legal difficulties, and the SSPX has been trying to make case to the Roman Authorities that the SSPX will serve the good of the Universal Church; a work in which the Resistance has not been helpful at all, in its deliberate obstruction of all canonical normalization. Even when there are injustices, says St. Thomas, and as the example of St. Athanasius, and more recently St. Padre Pio, shows, they must be patiently borne out of love for the Church with Faith that God will eventually set things right in relations with Rome. Meanwhile, your approach is practically distinguishable from ecclesia-vacantism, as if there is no Catholic Hierarchy anymore. You yourself quote +ABL in all those statements saying, we can't just say it's all finished in Rome etc, Sean, but then you want to treat it as if it is. What we can do is ask for good and friendly Bishops like Bp. Schneider or a Bp. Huonder to visit and favorably report on the Society to the Pope. 

    Some details of Cardinal Gagnon's Apostolic Visitation: "The 11th of November, exactly 13 years after the first Apostolic Visit of 1974, Cardinal Gagnon and Msgr. Perl arrive in Econe. In a marathon visit till the 9th of December, they visit the 3 European seminaries, chapels, general house, groups of priests, schools, convents, retreat houses, up and down France, Germany, and Switzerland. In the Book of Honor of the seminary of Econe, Cardinal Gagnon writes a testimony of admiration for the work done in the seminary.

    On December 8th, Feast of the Immaculate Conception, Cardinal Gagnon assists pontifically at the Mass celebrated by Archbishop Lefebvre during which 27 seminarians make their first engagement in the Society of St. Pius X. Thus, the Holy Father’s hand-picked delegate officially attends a Mass celebrated by a "suspended" bishop who receives members into a "suppressed" society, which "officially" does not exist." https://sspx.org/en/25-years-of-the-sspx-fr-angles-talk-part-4

    Also reported on here: "On February 13 Die Welt published Father Schmidberger’s interview with Paul Badde. The veteran Catholic journalist asked whether the Society’s founder, Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, would not already have reached an agreement with the present Pope, who has made so many conciliatory gestures. Father Schmidberger replied: 

    Things are not that easy. During the visitation of our work by Cardinal Gagnon in 1987, Archbishop Lefebvre wrote the cardinal a letter and proposed a canonical structure for the Fraternity. At the same time, he made it very clear that current ecuмenism under the banner of religious relativism, religious liberty, the fruit of which is today’s secularism, and collegiality, that completely paralyzes the life of the Church, are unacceptable to us. Alas, even today there are still differences with the reigning Pope when it comes to these issues. 
    Recalling the uproar in liberal Catholic circles when the Pope lifted the excommunications of the four SSPX bishops in January 2009, Badde asked, “What does the Society offer for reconciliation with the Church?”  The answer: 

    When it is canonically recognized, the Society will bring a large religious potential and great religious strength into the interior of the Church. I see few ecclesiastical communities that have taken up the cause of complete unity between dogmatic theology, spirituality, and liturgy, and that live by it…. Furthermore, the Fraternity will be a great support for the Pope in conquering the latent schism that is present everywhere in Europe due to centrifugal forces. 

    The journalist pressed the point: since the Pope has risked so much on its behalf, what is the SSPX willing to sacrifice? Father Schmidberger admitted, “We give up our relative freedom that we have used so far for the worldwide expansion of our work and we put it into the hands of the Pope. Anyway, this is not about some diplomatic agreement, but about the welfare of the Church and the salvation of souls.”
    From: https://www.catholicworldreport.com/2012/02/28/so-near-and-yet-so-far/
    "We wish also to make amends for the insults to which Your Vicar on earth and Your Priests are everywhere subjected [above all by schismatic sedevacantists - Nishant Xavier], for the profanation, by conscious neglect or Terrible Acts of Sacrilege, of the very Sacrament of Your Divine Love; and lastly for the Public Crimes of Nations who resist the Rights and The Teaching Authority of the Church which You have founded." - Act of Reparation to the Sacred Heart of Lord Jesus.

    Offline Kazimierz

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    Re: Bishop Huonder Spreads His Wings over the SSPX
    « Reply #7 on: February 06, 2020, 05:28:37 PM »
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  • Wings are not the only thing conciliarist Huonder is spreading. Ahem. ;)

    By letting in this delegate of Newrome opens the door for more devilry or even more, to enter the gates of the NeoSSPX.

    Vewy vewy nice that the childwen sang a song for the visitor. Maybe he can reciprocate and teach the kids the new what’s happening now dude version of the Our Father?
    True it is only in Italy for now, but anyone not imbibed on Koolaid will know how fast such infections spread throughout the conciliar church. 

    Meanwhile in Menzingen  the hills are still alive with the sound of hearsay (rhymes better than heresy but you get the picture) :cowboy:
    Da pacem Domine in diebus nostris
    Qui non est alius
    Qui pugnet pro nobis
    Nisi  tu Deus noster


    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Bishop Huonder Spreads His Wings over the SSPX
    « Reply #8 on: February 06, 2020, 05:39:08 PM »
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  • Surely you are not unaware of the later Apostolic Visitation of Cardinal Gagnon several years later, who praised the Society, right? Yes, we know the legal difficulties, and the SSPX has been trying to make case to the Roman Authorities that the SSPX will serve the good of the Universal Church; a work in which the Resistance has not been helpful at all, in its deliberate obstruction of all canonical normalization. Even when there are injustices, says St. Thomas, and as the example of St. Athanasius, and more recently St. Padre Pio, shows, they must be patiently borne out of love for the Church with Faith that God will eventually set things right in relations with Rome. Meanwhile, your approach is practically distinguishable from ecclesia-vacantism, as if there is no Catholic Hierarchy anymore. You yourself quote +ABL in all those statements saying, we can't just say it's all finished in Rome etc, Sean, but then you want to treat it as if it is. What we can do is ask for good and friendly Bishops like Bp. Schneider or a Bp. Huonder to visit and favorably report on the Society to the Pope.

    Some details of Cardinal Gagnon's Apostolic Visitation: "The 11th of November, exactly 13 years after the first Apostolic Visit of 1974, Cardinal Gagnon and Msgr. Perl arrive in Econe. In a marathon visit till the 9th of December, they visit the 3 European seminaries, chapels, general house, groups of priests, schools, convents, retreat houses, up and down France, Germany, and Switzerland. In the Book of Honor of the seminary of Econe, Cardinal Gagnon writes a testimony of admiration for the work done in the seminary.

    On December 8th, Feast of the Immaculate Conception, Cardinal Gagnon assists pontifically at the Mass celebrated by Archbishop Lefebvre during which 27 seminarians make their first engagement in the Society of St. Pius X. Thus, the Holy Father’s hand-picked delegate officially attends a Mass celebrated by a "suspended" bishop who receives members into a "suppressed" society, which "officially" does not exist." https://sspx.org/en/25-years-of-the-sspx-fr-angles-talk-part-4

    Also reported on here: "On February 13 Die Welt published Father Schmidberger’s interview with Paul Badde. The veteran Catholic journalist asked whether the Society’s founder, Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, would not already have reached an agreement with the present Pope, who has made so many conciliatory gestures. Father Schmidberger replied:

    Things are not that easy. During the visitation of our work by Cardinal Gagnon in 1987, Archbishop Lefebvre wrote the cardinal a letter and proposed a canonical structure for the Fraternity. At the same time, he made it very clear that current ecuмenism under the banner of religious relativism, religious liberty, the fruit of which is today’s secularism, and collegiality, that completely paralyzes the life of the Church, are unacceptable to us. Alas, even today there are still differences with the reigning Pope when it comes to these issues.
    Recalling the uproar in liberal Catholic circles when the Pope lifted the excommunications of the four SSPX bishops in January 2009, Badde asked, “What does the Society offer for reconciliation with the Church?”  The answer:

    When it is canonically recognized, the Society will bring a large religious potential and great religious strength into the interior of the Church. I see few ecclesiastical communities that have taken up the cause of complete unity between dogmatic theology, spirituality, and liturgy, and that live by it…. Furthermore, the Fraternity will be a great support for the Pope in conquering the latent schism that is present everywhere in Europe due to centrifugal forces.

    The journalist pressed the point: since the Pope has risked so much on its behalf, what is the SSPX willing to sacrifice? Father Schmidberger admitted, “We give up our relative freedom that we have used so far for the worldwide expansion of our work and we put it into the hands of the Pope. Anyway, this is not about some diplomatic agreement, but about the welfare of the Church and the salvation of souls.”
    From: https://www.catholicworldreport.com/2012/02/28/so-near-and-yet-so-far/

    Regarding the 1987 visit, it is as Fr. Angles describes: "Thus, the Holy Father’s hand-picked delegate officially attends a Mass celebrated by a "suspended" bishop who receives members into a "suppressed" society, which "officially" does not exist."  

    This is, therefore, no "canonical visit" in the true and/or legal sense (de jure), but merely a visit of Romans to discuss a canonical solution at a time when Lefebvre still entertaned the possibility of such.  They can call it a canonical visit if they want, but that don't make it so.  A visit to "something" with no canonical existence cannot be canonical.

    You have lost the balance between "recognizing" and "resisting."

    To you, the post-1988 Lefebvre is a practical sedevacantist.

    You have gone all-in on recognizing, because like all those who rallied before you, you have fallen into legalism, and can only fathom canonical regularity.

    You have no grasp on the doctrine of necessity, causes excusing from obedience to superiors, broad epikeia, etc.

    You have also lost understanding that these doctrines are among the sources of canon law, and are therefore superior to them when law and doctrine come into conflict (truth vs authority; common good vs legality; necessity vs letter of the law; etc).

    But if you think you are going to convince me that it is good to be collaborating with modernist clerics, you will be in for a frustrating battle (and you won't find much support for it in post-1988 Lefebvre).  

    The old SSPX didn't think that way, and neither do I.
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline Kazimierz

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    Re: Bishop Huonder Spreads His Wings over the SSPX
    « Reply #9 on: February 06, 2020, 05:40:23 PM »
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  •  “What does the Society offer for reconciliation with the Church?”  The answer:

    When it is canonically recognized, the Society will bring a large religious potential and great religious strength into the interior of the Church. I see few ecclesiastical communities that have taken up the cause of complete unity between dogmatic theology, spirituality, and liturgy, and that live by it…. Furthermore, the Fraternity will be a great support for the Pope in conquering the latent schism that is present everywhere in Europe due to centrifugal forces.

    No. no, and no. Supporting Frankie the Destroyer? Good grief! The fate that awaits is the castration, de-horning and bridling - all of which have happened to those traitorous communities like the FSSP et al.

    Must be a sale on this stuff this year or something......  :facepalm:





    Da pacem Domine in diebus nostris
    Qui non est alius
    Qui pugnet pro nobis
    Nisi  tu Deus noster

    Offline poche

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    Re: Bishop Huonder Spreads His Wings over the SSPX
    « Reply #10 on: February 07, 2020, 02:16:05 AM »
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  • I understand through other sources that the SSPX is bigger in some French speaking areas than the Novus Ordo. For example mass every week vs mass once a month.


    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Bishop Huonder Spreads His Wings over the SSPX
    « Reply #11 on: February 07, 2020, 08:32:57 AM »
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  • I understand through other sources that the SSPX is bigger in some French speaking areas than the Novus Ordo. For example mass every week vs mass once a month.
    That shouldn't be difficult since less than 4% of French Catholics go to mass, and the rest of Western Europe no more than 6%. I remember once reading that in Brazil, the largest populated Catholic country in the world, that as many Protestants go to their services on Sundays as the Catholics to mass. It meant nothing, since only 7% of Catholics went to mass in Brazil. Catholics do not go to mass anymore, they are "Catholics".
    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24

    Offline JezusDeKoning

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    Re: Bishop Huonder Spreads His Wings over the SSPX
    « Reply #12 on: February 07, 2020, 08:45:44 AM »
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  • “What does the Society offer for reconciliation with the Church?”  The answer:

    When it is canonically recognized, the Society will bring a large religious potential and great religious strength into the interior of the Church. I see few ecclesiastical communities that have taken up the cause of complete unity between dogmatic theology, spirituality, and liturgy, and that live by it…. Furthermore, the Fraternity will be a great support for the Pope in conquering the latent schism that is present everywhere in Europe due to centrifugal forces.

    No. no, and no. Supporting Frankie the Destroyer? Good grief! The fate that awaits is the castration, de-horning and bridling - all of which have happened to those traitorous communities like the FSSP et al.

    Must be a sale on this stuff this year or something......  :facepalm:


    There is nothing good that could come out of being with communion with Rome right now. Wishful thinking, they can maybe be left alone like with the Byzantine churches and only be in communion on paper.

    Even the most uninformed of God's creatures can recognize that something has been rotten in the Vatican for a very long time.
    I understand through other sources that the SSPX is bigger in some French speaking areas than the Novus Ordo. For example mass every week vs mass once a month.
    Everything is bigger than the Novus Ordo in France — no one goes to Mass there.
    Remember O most gracious Virgin Mary...

    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Bishop Huonder Spreads His Wings over the SSPX
    « Reply #13 on: February 07, 2020, 10:06:16 AM »
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  • Quote
    There is nothing good that could come out of being with communion with Rome right now. Wishful thinking, they can maybe be left alone like with the Byzantine churches and only be in communion on paper.
    Ahhh, but you're thinking too deeply.  Most of the laity only want one thing from new-rome...acceptance.  They want to be "part of the group", no longer fringe-catholics.  No longer "extreme conservatives".  No longer "different" from their FSSP or "conservative" novus ordo neighbors.
    .
    As far as the new-sspx leadership goes, I'm sure they'll get their "reward" from new-rome too...respect and power.  A sspx-prelature means more prestige, more accolades from their FSSP peers, more luxurious houses/chapels. 
    .
    Certainly +Fellay has been promised to lead the new "Traditional Wing" of the global, ecuмenical new-rome.  He'll control all of the new-sspx, the FSSP, the ICK, etc.  He'll be the king over the fake-Trad kingdom.

    Offline MiserereMei

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    Re: Bishop Huonder Spreads His Wings over the SSPX
    « Reply #14 on: February 07, 2020, 10:13:09 AM »
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  • Yes, Indeed. One should always receive Apostolic Visitors sent by Christ through His Vicar with respect and reverence. They come to us in the Name of Christ and as sent by Him. Remember Christ told His Apostles when He sent them out into the world, that whoever received them, received Him. But whoever despised them, despised Him. Do you wish to receive Christ, or perhaps to despise Him? Those who disagree about this teaching must be instructed on it, as the SSPX is doing.

    Mat 10:40 He that receiveth you, receiveth me: and he that receiveth me, receiveth him that sent me.

    Luk 10:16 He that heareth you heareth me: and he that despiseth you despiseth me: and he that despiseth me despiseth him that sent me.

    There have always been Apostolic and Canonical Visitations of the Seminaries of the SSPX right from its founding in 1970 50 years ago.
    "Beware of false prophets who come to you in the clothing of sheep". Where are the good fruits? Just stating the obvious...