Quote from: The Archbishop

The New Mass is a sort of hybrid Mass, which is no longer hierarchical; it is democratic, where the assembly takes the place of the priest, and so it is no longer a veritable Mass that affirms the royalty of Our Lord. (A Bishop Speaks, p.271)

The Novus Ordo is not a Catholic Mass, hybrid or otherwise.

The Novus Ordo is not a Catholic Mass, hybrid or otherwise.

Bishop Williamson seems to think otherwise.  In this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=7816&v=Ma9_10iVBik at the 1:01:45 mark, a lady says that she attends the new mass during the week.

Bp. Williamson answer: "Do whatever you need to nourish your faith".

He speaks about Novus Ordo priests nourishing the faith of their congregations, of Eucharistic miracles with the Novus Ordo Mass, and that "there are cases when the Novus Ordo Mass can be used, and is still being used, to build the faith".  1:08:50

And btw, if Bishop Fellay had said that, the resisters would be all over the internet blasting him as a liberal. But since Bishop Williamson said it, they ignore it completely.

Is not this a double standard?

Quote from: J.Paul

The Novus Ordo is not a Catholic Mass, hybrid or otherwise.

Bishop Williamson seems to think otherwise.  In this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=7816&v=Ma9_10iVBik at the 1:01:45 mark, a lady says that she attends the new mass during the week.

Bp. Williamson answer: "Do whatever you need to nourish your faith".

He speaks about Novus Ordo priests nourishing the faith of their congregations, of Eucharistic miracles with the Novus Ordo Mass, and that "there are cases when the Novus Ordo Mass can be used, and is still being used, to build the faith".  1:08:50

And btw, if Bishop Fellay had said that, the resisters would be all over the internet blasting him as a liberal. But since Bishop Williamson said it, they ignore it completely.

Is not this a double standard?

And I repeat, the Novus Ordo is not a Catholic Mass.
 It makes no difference what the Menzinistas or any others claim.
 It is not a mass but merely a sacrilegious and false ritual.

Quote from: First Friday

Quote from: J.Paul

The Novus Ordo is not a Catholic Mass, hybrid or otherwise.

Bishop Williamson seems to think otherwise.  In this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=7816&v=Ma9_10iVBik at the 1:01:45 mark, a lady says that she attends the new mass during the week.

Bp. Williamson answer: "Do whatever you need to nourish your faith".

He speaks about Novus Ordo priests nourishing the faith of their congregations, of Eucharistic miracles with the Novus Ordo Mass, and that "there are cases when the Novus Ordo Mass can be used, and is still being used, to build the faith".  1:08:50

And btw, if Bishop Fellay had said that, the resisters would be all over the internet blasting him as a liberal. But since Bishop Williamson said it, they ignore it completely.

Is not this a double standard?

And I repeat, the Novus Ordo is not a Catholic Mass.
 It makes no difference what the Menzinistas or any others claim.
 It is not a mass but merely a sacrilegious and false ritual.

I stand by Bishop Williamson that it is a valid Mass but not licit and in some cases doubtfully valid.


The Catholicity of the Novus Ordo is an entirely separate issue, but obviously if it is not licit than it is not Catholic.  Bishop Williamson states that it is not a licit Catholic rite of Mass.  This is the point.

Something can be quite Catholic and yet be conducted illicitly. The Novus Ordo prayer service is neither. The Novus Ordo is not a work of the Church, it therefore cannot be a valid Catholic Mass in the true sense, and it is always a sacrilege.
The Catholic Church cannot validate sacrilege upon Her altars, nor a mockery of the Sacrifice of Christ.

A benign attitude toward the Novus Ordo and the false council does not alter those realities.
Giving the faithful the idea that a false ritual might be valid or somehow legitimate might lead them to erroneously attend such a sacrilege, believing that it is Catholic or allowed.

That's your opinion.  Bishop Williamson believes and speaks otherwise.

Quote from: J.Paul

Something can be quite Catholic and yet be conducted illicitly. The Novus Ordo prayer service is neither. The Novus Ordo is not a work of the Church, it therefore cannot be a valid Catholic Mass in the true sense, and it is always a sacrilege.
The Catholic Church cannot validate sacrilege upon Her altars, nor a mockery of the Sacrifice of Christ.

A benign attitude toward the Novus Ordo and the false council does not alter those realities.
Giving the faithful the idea that a false ritual might be valid or somehow legitimate might lead them to erroneously attend such a sacrilege, believing that it is Catholic or allowed.

That's your opinion.  Bishop Williamson believes and speaks otherwise.

No FF, +Williamson does not believe or speak otherwise.

He starts out saying her attendance at the new mass could be scandalous and that it is his personal opinion that he doesn't think the new mass is always invalid - and he gave his reason - because there is nothing in the texts of the new mass that makes it always inevitably invalid if; a) it is a priest, b) who says the words worthily.
This is true - validity / invalidity is impossible to prove and to see a trad go to a new mass could be scandalous.

He then proceeds to talk about how the new mass is clearly sacrilegious, bad, to be avoided and etc. ad nausem.  

He then explained his opinion on the subject as; "Do whatever you need to nourish your faith".

I know of many - and even many (most?) here and on other trad forums today who would have never found tradition if they never went to the new mass. How many people left the NO and came to the true faith because after "X" years - even decades, they were *finally* disgusted, suspicious, fed up, sick of the bs, etc. or were in some way prompted to look into tradition and find out for themselves that they needed to leave the new faith for the true faith?  

Certainly he could have spent much more time further elaborating and speaking against and condemning the new mass - and I wish he would have - but I do not see that 15 minute snip demonstrating that "Bishop Williamson believes and speaks otherwise" in regards to the new mass.