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Author Topic: Bishop Fellay SAYS ARCHBISHOP LEFEBVRE ALWAYS WANTED AN AGREEMENT WITH ROME  (Read 1237 times)

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Offline Francisco

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http://nonpossumus-vcr.blogspot.mx/

Machine translation

TALKS at the Graduate Institute of St. Pius X: Bishop Fellay SAYS ARCHBISHOP LEFEBVRE ALWAYS WANTED AN AGREEMENT WITH ROME
On 10 and 11 November took place about Seminars at the University Institute St. Pius X. It was attended by Bishop Fellay.
A forum member levé A s'est évêque attending such conferences reports on Bishop Fellay's conference:


Colloquium at St. Pius X Institute in Paris.

Conclusion of Bishop Fellay
Sunday, 11 November 14:30.
In a hotel lounge Lutetia.

The room is filled halfway, only a two-seat is occupied.
(I do not think there are more than 200 listeners)

Definitely not Bishop Fellay attracts crowds of Tradition, there were so many empty seats as the day before. My neighbor was surprised and regrets, I simply told him that many people interested in this conversation about the Vatican II chose to remain in their homes as soon as they learned that Bishop Fellay would participate.

After a very informative conference Gleize father demonstrating the futility of teaching evolution versus constant teaching of the Catholic Church, the institute's director gave the word to Bishop Fellay. (The father left the conference Gleize)

The theme of his lecture was "Archbishop Lefebvre and the new teaching of the Council".

For more than an hour or an hour and a half, Bishop Fellay illustrated the attitude of Archbishop Lefebvre against the Church reconcile with quotes "conciliar" wrong.

I expected much less this!

Even Monsignor Fellay opposed Archbishop Lefebvre to Cardinal Ratzinger about Gaudium et Spes ("that Benedict is the key of the Council", he says)

To Monsignor Lefebvre "The garment is the shepherd, but the shepherd's voice but not the wolf."

The show tends to proclaim that Archbishop Lefebvre did not change from 1960 to 1991 in terms of liberal ideas. ("In opposition to those who advance the idea of a tightening at the end of his life")

In 1974: "We join with all our heart to Catholic Rome, reject and have always rejected the neo-modernism ... that is expressed in the council."
"No authority or higher in the hierarchy can push to diminish the faith of the Church taught for centuries XIX"

In 1976: "The liberal and modernist influences" have made ​​a "real plot".
"This reform was born a new Reformed church, the Conciliar Church."

Warns against "a conspiracy of the enemies of the church acting against it for two centuries: the secret societies."

"Just observe the reaction of the Masons, the liberals and Protestants during the Council."

References and comments go to par.

Bishop Fellay even dares to quote the words of Monsignor Lefebvre discussing his letter to Cardinal Ratzinger (04/10/1987):
"Even if you grant us a bishop, even if you give us some autonomy from the bishops, even if you grant us the entire liturgy of 1962, if you grant us continue with the seminars and the Fraternity as we do now, we can not work, because we work in diametrically opposite directions: you, you work for the de-Christianization of society, and we are working to Christianization. "


Note that Bishop Fellay did not finish the event, lacked the following:
Rome has lost the faith, dear friends. Rome is in apostasy.
But then, from 17:30 hrs, suddenly changes tone (now give us the lesson to learn from this)

This beautiful sign language as Monsignor Lefebvre is illustrated by another phrase of Bishop "who wholeheartedly wanted an agreement with Rome" (phrase uttered three months later).

Comment:

"Attention, Archbishop Lefebvre had faith in the church and always sought an agreement with it."

"Monsignor Lefebvre had a supernatural vision of the Church and I sincerely hope a deal»
(The words may be slightly different, but this is the sense that Bishop Fellay wanted to give its conclusion).

I make the observation that: despite the conclusion, the conference achieved its goal, much applauded assistance.

We also note that some remained standing looking rejecting the bishop's blessing.


Offline Neil Obstat

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Bishop Fellay SAYS ARCHBISHOP LEFEBVRE ALWAYS WANTED AN AGREEMENT WITH ROME
« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2012, 03:12:34 AM »
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  • We have always been at war with Eastasia.  



    Bishop Fellay SAYS ARCHBISHOP LEFEBVRE ALWAYS WANTED
    AN AGREEMENT WITH ROME.


    We have always been at war with Eastasia.




    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.


    Offline Francisco

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    Bishop Fellay SAYS ARCHBISHOP LEFEBVRE ALWAYS WANTED AN AGREEMENT WITH ROME
    « Reply #2 on: November 14, 2012, 03:45:52 AM »
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  • The entire post was taken from http://nonpossumus-vcr.blogspot.mx/ ( a Resistance website) with no commentary added by me. What I could gather from this article was that:

    Fr Gleize was the first, and probably the main speaker, his theme being Evolution in Church teaching versus the Constant teaching of the Church. He left the room after his talk.

    Bishop Fellay was next, with his favorite theme: There is no Deal but there is one (Ditto at St Nicolas).
    His presence put people off. There were hardly 200 people present and every other seat was empty. He played around with Archbishop Lefebvre's words.

    There was an applause at the end. It may have been the normal, polite applause. There were two speakers at this conference, so it cannot be said with certainty at which one the applause was really directed.

    Finally, when Bp Fellay gave his blessing, some in the audience refused it by remaining standing.

    Offline TKGS

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    Bishop Fellay SAYS ARCHBISHOP LEFEBVRE ALWAYS WANTED AN AGREEMENT WITH ROME
    « Reply #3 on: November 14, 2012, 06:57:36 AM »
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  • I think it is correct to say that Archbishop Lefebvre always wanted an agreement with Rome--eternal Rome, that is.

    While he truly did want regularization with the Catholic Church, just as the CMRI, the SSPV, and every other traditional organization, independent priest and bishop, and, indeed, every faithful traditional Catholic desires regularization with the Catholic Church, it is incorrect to say that any of these people desire an agreement with the rome of apostasy that currently inhabits the Vatican.

    To state the first part (desire for an agreement) without the second part (no desire to be in communion with Modernists) on the part of the Archbishop or any traditional Catholic is a half-truth:  A lie.  

    But then, there are some who really do eagerly desire regularization with today's rome.  I do not, at the present, speculate as to their status.

    Offline AntiFellayism

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    Bishop Fellay SAYS ARCHBISHOP LEFEBVRE ALWAYS WANTED AN AGREEMENT WITH ROME
    « Reply #4 on: November 14, 2012, 10:59:56 AM »
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  • Quote from: TKGS
    I think it is correct to say that Archbishop Lefebvre always wanted an agreement with Rome--eternal Rome, that is.


    I disagree, I think it is still incorrect to say that.

    Archbishop Lefebvre had never been in disagreement with Eternal Rome in the first place, therefore there's no need to reagree with her but only do what he's done: "Be subject to her"; which necessary implies fighting against Conciliar Rome with all its strength.

     

    Non Habemus Papam


    Offline CMC

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    Bishop Fellay SAYS ARCHBISHOP LEFEBVRE ALWAYS WANTED AN AGREEMENT WITH ROME
    « Reply #5 on: November 15, 2012, 01:29:11 PM »
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  • The question currently being discussed in this forum is also discussed in Chapter 23 of the book "Is This Operation ѕυιcιdє"? In that chapter, the author makes the following conclusion:

     
    Quote
    "The suggestion that Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre would enter into an agreement with Rome on the terms proposed is inconsistent with the words & actions of Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre”

     (as quoted in "Is This Operation ѕυιcιdє", page 15)

    The author of that book provides much material to support his conclusion. Here are two extracts:

    A.
    Quote
    July-August 1989 Archbishop Lefebvre, Interview, Fideliter121

    One year after the Consecrations
    An Interview with Archbishop Lefebvre

     "Lefebvre should have stayed in the Church".

    Question: Some people say,"Yes, but Archbishop Lefebvre should have accepted an agreement with Rome because once the Society of St. Pius X had been recognized and the suspensions lifted, he would have been able to act in a more effective manner inside the Church, whereas now he has put himself outside."

    Archbishop Lefebvre: Such things are easy to say. To stay inside the Church, or to put oneself inside the Church - what does that mean? Firstly, what Church are we talking about? If you mean the Conciliar Church, then we who have struggled against the Council for twenty years because we want the Catholic Church, we would have to re-enter this Conciliar Church in order, supposedly, to make it Catholic. That is a complete illusion. It is not the subjects that make the superiors, but the superiors who make the subjects.

    Amongst the whole Roman Curia, amongst all the world's bishops who are progressives, I would have been completely swamped. I would have been able to do nothing, I could have protected neither the faithful nor the seminarians.

    As quoted in “Is this Operation ѕυιcιdє? – page 174


    B. Extracts from: Archbishop Lefebvre's address to his priests given in Econe, Switzerland on September 6, 1990. Transcribed and slightly adapted from the French.

    Quote
    Concerning the future, I would like to say a few words on questions which the laity may ask you, questions which I often get asked by people who do not know too much about what is happening in the Society, such as, "Are relations with Rome broken off? Is it all over?"

    Quote
    We must not waver

    Well, we find ourselves in the same situation. We must not be under any illusions. Consequently we are in the thick of a great fight, a great fight. We are fighting a fight guaranteed by a whole line of popes. Hence, we should have no hesitation or fear, hesitation such as, "Why should we be going on our own? After all, why not join Rome, why not join the pope?" Yes, IF  Rome and the Pope were in line with Tradition, IF they were carrying on the work of all the Popes of the 19th and the first half of the 20th century, of course. But they themselves admit that they have set out on a new path. They themselves admit that a new era began with Vatican II. They admit that it is a new stage in the Church's life, wholly new, based on new principles. We need not argue the point. They say it themselves. It is clear. I think that we must drive this point home with our people, in such a way that they realize their oneness with the Church's whole history, going back well beyond the Revolution. Of course. It is the fight of the City of Satan against the City of God. Clearly. So we do not have to worry. We must after all trust in the grace of God.

    "What is going to happen? How is it all going to end?" That is God's secret. Mystery. But that we must fight the ideas presently fashionable in Rome, coming from the Pope's own mouth, Cardinal Ratzinger's mouth, Cardinal Casaroli's mouth, of Cardinal Willebrands and those like them, is clear, clear, for all they do is repeat the opposite of what the Popes said and solemnly stated for 150 years.

     (from pp. 180-182)