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Offline Alex117

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Bishop Fellay calls calls Jewish people "enemies of the Church"
« on: January 04, 2013, 05:04:35 PM »
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  • http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/news/2013/01/04/sspx-leader-calls-jewish-people-enemies-of-the-church/

    The head of the traditionalist Society of St Pius X has called Jewish people “enemies of the Church”, saying Jewish leaders’ support of the Second Vatican Council “shows that Vatican II is their thing, not the Church’s”.

    Bishop Bernard Fellay, the society’s superior general, said those most opposed to Rome granting canonical recognition to the SSPX have been “the enemies of the Church: the Jews, the Masons, the modernists”.

    He said these people, “who are outside of the Church, who over centuries have been enemies of the Church”, urged the Vatican to compel the SSPX to accept Vatican II.

    He made the comments during a nearly two-hour talk at Our Lady of Mount Carmel Academy in New Hamburg, Ontario, Canada.

    In it he said he had been receiving mixed messages from the Vatican for years over if and how the group might be brought back into full communion with the Church.

    He said top Vatican officials told him not to be discouraged by official statements from the Vatican, because they did not reflect Pope Benedict XVI’s true feelings.

    The Vatican press office declined to comment today on the claims. There has been no response from the society’s Swiss headquarters to a Catholic News Service email request for comment.

    Pope Benedict launched a series of doctrinal discussions with the SSPX in 2009, lifting excommunications imposed on its four bishops, who were ordained in 1988 without papal approval, and expressing his hopes they would return to full communion with the Church.

    In 2011, the Vatican gave SSPX leaders a “doctrinal preamble” to sign that outlines principles and criteria necessary to guarantee fidelity to the Church and its teaching; the Vatican said the SSPX leaders would have to sign it to move toward full reconciliation.

    But Bishop Fellay said he repeatedly told the Vatican that the contents of the preamble – particularly acceptance of the modern Mass and the council as expressed in the Catechism of the Catholic Church – were unacceptable.

    He said the only reason he continued discussions with Vatican officials was because others “very close to the Pope” had assured him that the Pope was not in agreement with hard-line official pronouncements from the Vatican.

    According to Bishop Fellay, retired Colombian Cardinal Dario Castrillon Hoyos, then president of the Pontifical Commission Ecclesia Dei, the office responsible for relations with traditionalist Catholics, had told him in March 2009 that the society would be formally recognised.

    When the bishop asked how that could be possible when recognition hinged on accepting the teachings of Vatican II, he said the cardinal replied that such a requirement was only “political” and “administrative” and that, “by the way, that is not what the Pope thinks”.

    Bishop Fellay said he continued to get similar messages from other Vatican officials, even as the formal talks continued. The verbal and written messages were very credible, he said, because they came from officials who saw the Pope “every day or every two days.”

    He said he wouldn’t give names, but he did claim “the secretary of the Pope himself” was among those who told him not to worry too much about hardline Vatican positions.

    Even if the doctrinal congregation ruled against the society, he claimed the secretary told him, the Pope “will overrule it in favour of the society”.

    “So, you see, I got all of these kinds of messages which were not fitting together,” Bishop Fellay said. “I got an official thing where I clearly have to say ‘no’ and I got other messages – which are not official, of course – but which say, ‘No, that’s not what the Pope wants.’”

    The unofficial assurances were what kept him engaged in talks, he said, since the Vatican’s official demands, which carried the Pope’s approval, “would mean the end of our relation with Rome”.

    The Vatican has not made the preamble public, but said it “states some doctrinal principles and criteria for the interpretation of Catholic doctrine necessary to guarantee fidelity” to the formal teaching of the Church, including the teaching of the Second Vatican Council, and that it leaves room for “legitimate discussion” about “individual expressions or formulations present in the documents of the Second Vatican Council and the successive magisterium” of the Church.

    Bishop Fellay said Pope Benedict wrote to him, emphasising that full recognition required the society accept the magisterium as the judge of what is tradition, accept the Council as an integral part of tradition and accept that the modern Mass is valid and licit.

    Bishop Fellay said: “Even in the Council there are some things we accept,” as well as reject, however, the group wishes to be free to say, “there are errors in the Council” and that “the new Mass is evil”.

    The group will not accept reconciliation if it means no longer being able to make such pronouncements, he said.

    Offline Capt McQuigg

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    Bishop Fellay calls calls Jewish people "enemies of the Church"
    « Reply #1 on: January 04, 2013, 05:11:01 PM »
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  • I approve of what Bishop Fellay said.


    Offline ServusSpiritusSancti

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    Bishop Fellay calls calls Jewish people "enemies of the Church"
    « Reply #2 on: January 04, 2013, 05:12:43 PM »
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  • Interesting. A while back he claimed that the Jews were our "elder brothers in the faith".

    Offline parentsfortruth

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    Bishop Fellay calls calls Jewish people "enemies of the Church"
    « Reply #3 on: January 04, 2013, 05:15:49 PM »
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  • Sometimes, you have to call a spade a spade, just to make sure you're still keeping the people's attention.
    Matthew 5:37

    But let your speech be yea, yea: no, no: and that which is over and above these, is of evil.

    My Avatar is Fr. Hector Bolduc. He was a faithful parish priest in De Pere, WI,

    Offline Donachie

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    Bishop Fellay calls calls Jewish people "enemies of the Church"
    « Reply #4 on: January 04, 2013, 05:26:19 PM »
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  • Quote from: Capt McQuigg
    I approve of what Bishop Fellay said.


    It's a general statement. He can make general statements can't he? Of course, he can. I approve as well.

    The Jews are not only enemies of the Church, they are enemies of the poor and national sovereignty as well.


    Offline AveMarisStella

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    Bishop Fellay calls calls Jewish people "enemies of the Church"
    « Reply #5 on: January 04, 2013, 06:24:02 PM »
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  • Sorry, but --  too little, too late.

    So let me get this straight -- when +Williamson says it, the whole world is in an uproar, but when Fellay says it, he gets a free pass.

    **YAWN**

      :confused1: :confused1: :confused1: :confused1: :confused1: :confused1:

    Offline Diego

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    Bishop Fellay calls calls Jewish people "enemies of the Church"
    « Reply #6 on: January 04, 2013, 06:29:17 PM »
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  • I hear that prostitutes walk both sides of the street.

    Offline Donachie

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    Bishop Fellay calls calls Jewish people "enemies of the Church"
    « Reply #7 on: January 04, 2013, 07:00:42 PM »
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  • Quote from: AveMarisStella
    Sorry, but --  too little, too late.

    So let me get this straight -- when +Williamson says it, the whole world is in an uproar, but when Fellay says it, he gets a free pass.

    **YAWN**

      :confused1: :confused1: :confused1: :confused1: :confused1: :confused1:


    It seems like the apocalypse to me anyway. Let Bill O'Reilly say it too. "The War on Christmas" from Fox News.


    Offline Telesphorus

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    Bishop Fellay calls calls Jewish people "enemies of the Church"
    « Reply #8 on: January 04, 2013, 08:32:04 PM »
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  • Quote from: SpiritusSanctus
    Interesting. A while back he claimed that the Jews were our "elder brothers in the faith".


    Those weren't his exact words SS.

    Well, this latest remark is an interesting gambit, and it might be an indication of how much trouble Bishop Fellay has been having keeping peace in the ranks.

    The pro-Fellay crowd on Ignis has been reading from a different script until very recently, obviously!






    Offline Pablo

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    Bishop Fellay calls calls Jewish people "enemies of the Church"
    « Reply #9 on: January 04, 2013, 08:52:17 PM »
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  • SPIN.


    *

    Offline Francisco

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    Bishop Fellay calls calls Jewish people "enemies of the Church"
    « Reply #10 on: January 05, 2013, 07:29:20 AM »
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  • Who is uranium now?


    Offline chrstnoel1

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    Bishop Fellay calls calls Jewish people "enemies of the Church"
    « Reply #11 on: January 05, 2013, 08:29:48 AM »
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  • Ha! Ha! Ha! Lol! :faint:

    Offline Dellery

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    Bishop Fellay calls calls Jewish people "enemies of the Church"
    « Reply #12 on: January 05, 2013, 09:14:57 AM »
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  • Bishop Fellay said:
     
    Quote
    Bishop Bernard Fellay, the society’s superior general, said those most opposed to Rome granting canonical recognition to the SSPX have been “the enemies of the Church: the Jews, the Masons, the modernists”.

    He said these people, “who are outside of the Church, who over centuries have been enemies of the Church”, urged the Vatican to compel the SSPX to accept Vatican II.

     
     Am I the only one confused about this statement?

    Offline Alex117

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    Bishop Fellay calls calls Jewish people "enemies of the Church"
    « Reply #13 on: January 05, 2013, 09:18:43 AM »
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  • Quote from: Dellery
    Am I the only one confused about this statement?

    Bishop Fellay was saying that those that were the most opposed (meaning the most vocal, I guess) against their reconciliation with Rome were Jews, Masons, and modernists.

    Offline Dellery

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    Bishop Fellay calls calls Jewish people "enemies of the Church"
    « Reply #14 on: January 05, 2013, 09:22:58 AM »
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  •  With all due respect, you just retyped the statement I  quoted.  :wink:

     It still doesn't make any sense. We should all know by now it's the very Jews and Modernists who want the reconciliation (i.e. capitulation) of the SSPX to Rome.

     

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