In the 1860s two Jєωιѕн Gutmanns, with a Rothschild and a Hapsburg Archduke, went into partnership to found an ironworks in Moravia (Czechoslovakia). This was confiscated by Goering in 1938 and then by the Czech Communists after WW2. There was no connection with the Catholic Gutmanns.

Ah, so you're saying this money has no Jєωιѕн connections?  The sspx is a jew-free zone, and Max Krah is just a harmless little fellow with zionist leanings, who happens to have a few business connections with +Fellay & Co.?

We are all greatly comforted to hear this.   :tinfoil:

 

Neil and Incredulous, you're ridiculous. Bishop Williamson, as rector of STAS, purposefully took seminarians regularly on trips to Washington, Boston and other places to show and explain American errors.

I was thinking about this, but really I think there's a big, fundamental difference when you take a group of seminarians into Washington DC for a day or two ONCE EVERY 4 YEARS and the whole time we're thinking/studying/talking about Americanism and other errors that we'll be observing.

In other words, the seminarians were put into a mindset that was perfect to get the most out of the trip. We were completely "on our guard" and we felt like we were exploring Babylon or Sodom. We were on a safari.

Under those circuмstances, one is not damaged by the errors, influences that are found in a place like that.

The same goes for television and movies. If you are looking for every little error, and not "getting into" the show, you can watch it from a higher vantage point like an ivory tower. You are keeping a professional distance -- treating what you observe like a psychiatrist would treat his patient. He's interested -- even fascinated -- by the mental disorder, but he's not about to get caught up in it.

But you have to be careful and take precautions.

I was thinking though, what if Washington DC had been 2 hours away, like Rochester and La Crosse had been to Winona, MN? We went to those places several times a year to pick up seminarians/priests, to go shopping, etc. THEN you'd be talking about subtle influences creeping in.

The influence WE had in Winona was rural midwest America, the conservative "red" on the political map. Also known as "flyover country", because most of the US population will experience these places only while flying over in an airplane.

As we have discovered in the recent election of Trump, the struggle is all about Rural vs. City. Sane vs. Insane. Conservative vs. Liberal. Even a heavily Democratic state like Illinois is EXTREMELY conservative if you cut out Chicago and Rockford. All the small towns of Illinois are every bit as conservative as the small towns throughout Texas.

This rural, small town America is what surrounded the Winona seminary, and it was great.

You think one's faith is safer in the cities?

I guess that's an opinion, which you are free to have -- but I strongly disagree.

The problem has more to do with America (from sea to shining sea) being a non-Catholic country from the get-go. Living in the country will surround you with more conservatives, and more common sense, but all the natural common sense in the world doesn't equal SUPERNATURAL sanity.

And moving from rural/small-town America to CALIFORNIA? Isn't that like jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire?

Cardinal Mahoney -- the first bishop people name when trying to think of a notoriously liberal bishop -- wasn't famous for being a small-town bishop. I believe he was Archbishop of Los Angeles...

Regarding "Los Angeles Archdiocese under Cardinal Mcintyre who resisted the changes"

A) That may have been true 40 years ago, but California is hardly a hotbed of "resisting the changes" today! If it weren't for California, Novus Ordo Watch would have a lot less abuses and shocking material to report upon. Let's put it that way.

Let's put it another way: If every state in the Union were represented by a pope, California would be represented by POPE FRANCIS.

I think you get the point.

B) I think that big cities have more of everything because there are more people. But not necessarily in proportion to their size. That is to say, you'll be awash in evil until you inevitably find that conservative priest or bishop -- who has to be there, because of mathematics.

Long story short, you're still better off avoiding the big cities.

Msgr. Donahue was ordained in 1953 for the Diocese of Lacrosse. He left the Diocese of Lacrosse around 1968. He moved to the LA Archdiocese because the Archbishop - McIyntyre - at the time (together with Spellman in New York) would not permit (m)any of the Novus Ordo changes. When McKintyre was replaced by Timothy Manning (1970) the changes came in full force. The Msgr. moved to LA because rural Wisconsin was a "wasteland" (that was his word) as far as the Catholic Faith was concerned in 1968. He didn't move to the city to save his faith, he moved to an Archdiocese which was still highly conservative at that time. He learned the hard way that resisting the flow of Vatican 2 within the mainstream church was a disaster waiting to happen. He had no nice words for Mahony that I can tell you. He was an independent priest friendly with the SSPX. He died in 1995. His church now belongs to the SPPX.

His biography on SSPX website

Interesting electoral map by the way. What's the blue area in the middle along the Mississppi - would that be Red Wing ?