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Traditional Catholic Faith => SSPX Resistance News => Topic started by: Matthew on August 22, 2016, 03:21:45 AM
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http://nonpossumus-vcr.blogspot.mx/2016/08/mons-faure-ha-fundado-una-nueva.html
Bp. Faure has read the decree of erection of the new congregation in the seminary St. Louis Grignon de Montfort (Avrillé) this morning. After that, he consecrated the SAJM to the Immaculate Heart of Mary.
The name of the congregation corresponds to the other denomination that Bp. Lefebvre thought for the SSPX.
Decree of erection for the «Priestly Society of the Apostles of Jesus and Mary»
Given the very serious crisis caused to the Church by the Second Vatican Council and its subsequent reforms, and the consequent state of necessity;
given the urgent necessity, in these times of apostasy, of priests formed in the Tradition of the Church who devote their life to the restoration of the Kingdom of Christ, fighting tirelessly against the liberalism and modernism currently prevailing among Catholics;
given the betrayal of the current authorities of the Society of St. Pius X to the spirit and work of Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre:
We, Christian Jean Michel Faure, Bishop of the Catholic Church, in the Holy Name of God invoked, decree what follows:
1. The Priestly Society of the Apostles of Jesus and Mary is erected as a “Clerical Society living in common” under the terms of Canon 673 of the Code of Canon Law (1917),
2. The seat of the Society is fixed in 1 Chemin de la Petite Garde, 49240 Avrillé, France.
3. We approve and confirm the Statutes of the Society
We implore divine blessings on this Priestly Society that it may attain its principal goal which the formation of holy priests.
Given at Avrillé, on August 22 2016, in the Feast of the Immaculate Heart of Mary.
+ Christian Jean Michel Faure, Bishop of the Catholic Church.
« Since the Second Vatican Council, the holy Sacrifice of the Mass, Catholic doctrine, and all life in the Church are under attack by the liberal and modernist Hierarchy. Because the Catholic priesthood has the essencial duty to fight liberalism and modernism in defense of the violated divine rights, the Society rejects all possibility of a canonical regularization via bilateral agreement, unilateral recognition, or any other way, so long as the Catholic Hierarchy do not return to the Tradition of the Church. » (Statutes, II, 5)
And for our Spanish speakers:
Mons. Faure ha leído el decreto de erección de la nueva congregación en el seminario San Luis Grignón de Montfort (Avrillé) esta mañana. Después de eso consagró la SAJM al Corazón Inmaculado de María.
El nombre de la congregación corresponde a la otra denominación que Mons. Lefebvre pensó para la FSSPX.
Decreto de Erección de la «Sociedad Sacerdotal de los Apóstoles de Jesús y María»
Dada la gravísima crisis causada en la Iglesia por el concilio Vaticano II y las reformas que a éste han seguido, y el estado de necesidad consiguiente;
dada la necesidad urgente, en estos tiempos de apostasía, de sacerdotes formados en la Tradición de la Iglesia que consagren sus vidas a la restauración del Reinado de Cristo, combatiendo sin tregua en contra del liberalismo y del modernismo actualmente imperantes entre los católicos;
dada la traición de las actuales autoridades de la Fraternidad Sacerdotal San Pío X al espíritu y a la obra de Monseñor Marcel Lefebvre:
Nos, Christian Jean Michel Faure, Obispo de la Iglesia Católica, invocando el Santo Nombre de Dios, decretamos lo siguiente:
1. Queda erigida la Sociedad de los Apóstoles de Jesús y María, bajo el título de «sociedad clerical de vida común», al tenor del canon 673 del Código de Derecho Canónico de 1917.
2. La sede de la sociedad queda fijada en 1 Chemin de la Petite Garde, 49240 Avrillé, France.
3. Nos aprobamos y confirmamos los estatutos de la Sociedad.
Imploramos las bendiciones divinas sobre esta Sociedad para que ella alcance su fin principal, que es la formación de santos sacerdotes.
Dado en Avrillé el 22 de agosto de 2016, fiesta del Corazón Inmaculado de María.
+ Christian Jean Michel Faure, Obispo de la Iglesia Católica.
« Desde el concilio Vaticano II, el santo Sacrificio de la Misa, la doctrina católica y toda la vida de la Iglesia son atacados por la Jerarquía liberal y modernista. Porque el sacerdocio católico tiene el deber esencial de combatir el liberalismo y el modernismo en defensa de los derechos divinos violados, la Sociedad descarta toda posibilidad de regularización canónica por vía de acuerdo bilateral, de reconocimiento unilateral, o del modo que sea, en tanto la Jerarquía católica no vuelva a la Tradición de la Iglesia. » (Estatutos, II, 5)
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What happens to the other three societies - MC, SSPX-MC, and the Priestly Union of Marcel Lefebvre?
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Well, at least now the Resistance will have a better name.
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While I'd like to think that this will ease the concerns of some Pfeifferville types regarding "loose associations" (I know better, though), I really don't see how an independent bishop has the authority to found a new congregation.
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What happens to the other three societies - MC, SSPX-MC, and the Priestly Union of Marcel Lefebvre?
Exactly. Who is who and where. And who is superior of what and of whom. Father Pfeiffer was elected superior in Vienna, Father de Merod was elected superior in France, what happened? In need for clarification here.
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Fr. Pfeiffer's term expired long ago... and besides, Paul Hernandez is the head of that congregation.
So, does this mean Bp. Faure has departed from +W ?
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Fr. Pfeiffer break up with the 3 bishops. His organization is not connected with the bishops.
Fr. Bruno OSB is the current Coordinator of the USML.
The USML never intended to be a “Congregation”, neither has adopted any form of canonical organization.
The SSPX-MC from Asia and the USML never were “erected” by a Bishop, nor even have their own statutes.
Bp. Faure is the General Superior of the SAJM.
One priest was formally incarditanted today in the SAJM. I do not know how many more priests will want to be members of the SAJM. It will be known these days.
When 4, 5 or 6 seminarians be tonsured in a few months, they will be incardinated in the SAJM.
Bishop Williamson and Bishop Thomas Aquinas approved explicitly the foundation of the new Congregation.
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I'm just happy we now have an acronym that works in at least 3 major languages. :smirk:
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Bishop Williamson and Bishop Thomas Aquinas approved explicitly the foundation of the new Congregation.
In the grand scheme of things, what does it matter that Bp. Faure has established a new Congregation? I can't imagine how this new Congregation will affect in the slightest "traditional" Catholics living in North Idaho. What's the endgame, if indeed there is one?
What comfort or relief will Bp. Faure's effort bring to the faithful at ICC in Post Falls, who have been devastated by recent sex scandals? What redress to the grievances of the faithful at OLS in Phoenix will a new Congregation in Europe achieve?
I personally couldn't care less about it, with or without +Williamson and +Aquinas' approval.
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The SSPX-MC from Asia and the USML never were “erected” by a Bishop, nor even have their own statutes.
Bp. Faure is the General Superior of the SAJM.
One priest was formally incarditanted today in the SAJM. I do not know how many more priests will want to be members of the SAJM. It will be known these days.
When 4, 5 or 6 seminarians be tonsured in a few months, they will be incardinated in the SAJM.
a little clarification and correction, the MC SPX has the statutes of the SSPX... exactly the same ones... Fr Chazal explicitly told it since 2012... and Nothing have changed after... The MC remains faithful to statutes of HE Bishop Lefebvre.
And aother point: the MC is present in Asia, in Ireland and in France. it has now 7 priests. When they will be ten or more, they will have a general chapter in order to do some corrections to the administrative part of the SSPX statutes (which is explicitly permitted by the SSPX statutes).
For the seminarians, I have heard that the seminarians will choose between what will exist at this time ...
About the USML, Fr Trincado said me a week ago that the USML was founded with the aprobation of the bishops...
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About the USML, Fr Trincado said me a week ago that the USML was founded with the aprobation of the bishops...
I asked Fr. Trincado and he told me: “The USML indeed was created with the approbation of Bp. Williamson, but that does not mean it was “erected” canonically. The USML didn’t adopt any associative form recognized by Canon Law, so the USML is a union of priests without existence before Canon Law” Fr. Trincado is also a lawyer.
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Bishop Williamson and Bishop Thomas Aquinas approved explicitly the foundation of the new Congregation.
In the grand scheme of things, what does it matter that Bp. Faure has established a new Congregation? I can't imagine how this new Congregation will affect in the slightest "traditional" Catholics living in North Idaho. What's the endgame, if indeed there is one?
What comfort or relief will Bp. Faure's effort bring to the faithful at ICC in Post Falls, who have been devastated by recent sex scandals? What redress to the grievances of the faithful at OLS in Phoenix will a new Congregation in Europe achieve?
I personally couldn't care less about it, with or without +Williamson and +Aquinas' approval.
This is a rather self-centered and sour attitude about a good development for the preservation of Tradition. This is one of those "grand scheme of things" deals, and in comparison of which, who cares about the poor delicate faithful at ICC? I am tired of hearing about this particular scandal. Decades ago when I was in high school, police came onto the campus of our Catholic h.s. to arrest girls for prostitution. We had Mob families in our parish, and many of the upstanding "first" families, of our parish secretly took their daughters for abortions. There has never been a time in the Church where a parish, any parish, didn't have scandals. And yet, many, if not most, of the people others still practiced their Faith with good will, attended Mass, went to confession regularly, prayed their rosaries, wore scapulars and probably saved their souls. Scandals aren't allowed by God in order destroy people's Faith, and if it does, their Faith is shaky to begin with.
Regarding Bishop Faure's lack of authority, that someone else mentioned, perhaps the same state of emergency that supplies jurisdiction for marriages, confessions and other sacraments, provides for this as well? God knows no one is going to get permission for any truly good work from Rome. Does that mean that good works must cease? We are trying to wend our way through things that the Church has never experienced, but we can't just sit on our hands and do nothing.
Hollingsworth, this is for you. :fryingpan:
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I asked Fr. Trincado and he told me: “The USML indeed was created with the approbation of Bp. Williamson, but that does not mean it was “erected” canonically. The USML didn’t adopt any associative form recognized by Canon Law, so the USML is a union of priests without existence before Canon Law” Fr. Trincado is also a lawyer.
At the risk of getting even more 'thumbs down,' which negative gestures do not deter me in the slightest, I will pursue the matter. Again, what is the endgame? Now you've got Fr. Trincado, a lawyer, who supplies more additional backgtround information, viz. Bp.Faure's new work has no "associative form" recognized by Canon Law. This new work does not, apparently, even exist before Canon Law. So what is at stake here for the 'Church' and for the so-called 'Resistance?' What does it accomplish?
I have nothing against Fr. Faure. In fact, my wife and I like the man, and were able to take him to lunch when last he visited in Post Falls. What is more, I defended him vigorously, openly. vocally in the face of a Pfeifferite detractor, present at the conference that the bishop gave then. This guy was there only to bring the cleric down. I told him basically, in an open meeting, to go pound sand.
But the question still remains: What are three bishops trying to accomplish, and, specifically, what does Bp.Faure see to be the desired results of of his new movement? Are the priests he produces going to be any better grounded, theologically and spiritually equipped to minister to the needs of confused, often desperate. "traditional" Catholics. If so, how?
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I asked Fr. Trincado and he told me: “The USML indeed was created with the approbation of Bp. Williamson, but that does not mean it was “erected” canonically. The USML didn’t adopt any associative form recognized by Canon Law, so the USML is a union of priests without existence before Canon Law” Fr. Trincado is also a lawyer.
At the risk of getting even more 'thumbs down,' which negative gestures do not deter me in the slightest, I will pursue the matter. Again, what is the endgame? Now you've got Fr. Trincado, a lawyer, who supplies more additional backgtround information, viz. Bp.Faure's new work has no "associative form" recognized by Canon Law. This new work does not, apparently, even exist before Canon Law. So what is at stake here for the 'Church' and for the so-called 'Resistance?' What does it accomplish?
I have nothing against Fr. Faure. In fact, my wife and I like the man, and were able to take him to lunch when last he visited in Post Falls. What is more, I defended him vigorously, openly. vocally in the face of a Pfeifferite detractor, present at the conference that the bishop gave then. This guy was there only to bring the cleric down. I told him basically, in an open meeting, to go pound sand.
But the question still remains: What are three bishops trying to accomplish, and, specifically, what does Bp.Faure see to be the desired results of of his new movement? Are the priests he produces going to be any better grounded, theologically and spiritually equipped to minister to the needs of confused, often desperate. "traditional" Catholics. If so, how?
Even I understand that USML is not the new congregation founded by Bishop Faure.
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pilar:
Decades ago when I was in high school, police came onto the campus of our Catholic h.s. to arrest girls for prostitution. We had Mob families in our parish, and many of the upstanding "first" families, of our parish secretly took their daughters for abortions. There has never been a time in the Church where a parish, any parish, didn't have scandals. And yet, many, if not most, of the people others still practiced their Faith with good will, attended Mass, went to confession regularly, prayed their rosaries, wore scapulars and probably saved their souls. Scandals aren't allowed by God in order destroy people's Faith, and if it does, their Faith is shaky to begin with.
Gosh, I think maybe at that point I would have been searching around for a nice Protestant congregation to attend. No wonder the Catholic church has lost so many millions of people to other faiths.
I am tired of hearing about this particular scandal.
Actually, the ICC scandal fell out of the news cycle some weeks ago. You're not hearing much about it now; and boy, you can bet that sspx officials are breathing sighs of relief. :laugh1:
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.... I am tired of hearing about this particular scandal. ...
Imagine how "tired" the boys were of being sodomized. Imagine how tired the boys and parents were of their warnings being ignored by SSPX priests.
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I asked Fr. Trincado and he told me: “The USML indeed was created with the approbation of Bp. Williamson, but that does not mean it was “erected” canonically. The USML didn’t adopt any associative form recognized by Canon Law, so the USML is a union of priests without existence before Canon Law” Fr. Trincado is also a lawyer.
Even I understand that USML is not the new congregation founded by Bishop Faure.
Yes, Fr. Trincado was speaking of the USML, not the newly formed SAJM.
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But the question still remains: What are three bishops trying to accomplish, and, specifically, what does Bp.Faure see to be the desired results of of his new movement?
I'm guessing that they are trying to prepare a "viable lilly pad" for the SSPX priests who will abandon +Fellay once his personal prelature becomes official and everyone must take sides, since "Pfeifferville" is not an option for them.
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I'm officially taking credit for coining the following monicker.
Sajamite (noun) 1. Follower of the Society of the Apostles of Jesus and Mary (SAJM).
2. Follower of the SSPX Resistance in general.
:roll-laugh2: I don't think it will catch on. It sounds too close to something that is very unsavory. :roll-laugh1:
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The 'end game' will be decided/provided for by God. The 'intermediate game' is to organize and plan for the distribution of the mass/sacraments.
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I'm officially taking credit for coining the following monicker.
Sajamite (noun) 1. Follower of the Society of the Apostles of Jesus and Mary (SAJM).
2. Follower of the SSPX Resistance in general.
Yuck. That word you coined brings to mind either an unpleasant vitamin-fortified sandwich spread or a person with some sort of deplorable moral issue. Please roll again.
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I'm officially taking credit for coining the following monicker.
Sajamite (noun) 1. Follower of the Society of the Apostles of Jesus and Mary (SAJM).
2. Follower of the SSPX Resistance in general.
:roll-laugh2: I don't think it will catch on. It sounds too close to something that is very unsavory. :roll-laugh1:
I agree.
It sounds too much like Vegemite or sodomite.
And Sbyvl, what justification do you have for throwing in definition 2) for good measure? I don't see the reason. The Resistance is much larger than any of the small groups that make it up.
Matthew is a man.
Therefore all men are Matthew.
SAJM is Resistance
Therefore all Resistance are SAJM.
Same bad logic.
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Please note: this has nothing to do with authority or jurisdiction.
What +Williamson said is that he has no authority to bind all the Resistant priests to obey him. And that was completely true, and still is true.
+Faure is merely "giving it a go". He's starting a society, and at the very least he will incardinate those who he forms at his seminary after they are ordained. It's not that he doesn't have the right to start a congregation.
Archbishop Lefebvre started a society, and many followed him because of his charisma, his reputation, his holiness, and most of all his stellar career which reached so high it even touched the papacy (he was appointed by the pope to be the Papal Legate to French Speaking Africa).
Long story short, +Lefebvre's resume was far more impressive than even +Williamson's -- and +Williamson would be the first to admit this. (He is humble enough that he would never suggest, let alone claim, otherwise.)
It has to do with authority, which always comes from above. If a good Resistant priest didn't want to join +Faure's new group, he wouldn't have to. It might be prudent for him to do so, but it wouldn't be a sin or even a fault if he wanted to pass on joining.
Long story short, it's not as simple as a bishop jumping up on the table like a gorilla and grunting, "Me Bishop. You Priest. You follow!"
That would imply that there is an inherent authority or jurisdiction contained in the office of Bishop itself. But that's not true. There is power of Orders, and power of jurisdiction. The 4 +Lefebvre bishops, for example, have valid orders but they were never given any jurisdiction (authority). If +Lefebvre had attempted the latter, it would have been a schismatic act and he would have been ipso facto excommunicated (which is what all the Conciliarists think happened).
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Is this confusing to anyone else? Bishop Faure's new Congregation was named: «Priestly Society of the Apostles of Jesus and Mary». When the SSPX was "recognized" in Argentina in 2015, the name "FRATERNITY OF THE APOSTLES OF JESUS AND MARY" was used.
http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2015/04/argentina-formally-recognizes-sspx-as.html
That according to Protocol N. 084/15, of February 23, 2015, the Archbishop of Buenos Aires, Mario Aurelio Cardinal POLI, requests that the "FRATERNITY OF THE APOSTLES OF JESUS AND MARY" (PRIESTLY FRATERNITY OF SAINT PIUS X) be held, up to the moment in which it finds its definitive juridical framing within the Church Universal, as an Association of Diocesan Right, according to what is established by canon 298 of the Code of Canon Law, being in fieri [henceforth and in the meantime] a Society of Apostolic Life, with all the benefits that correspond to it, and complying with all obligations to which the same refers, also accepting all responsibilities that belong to the diocesan Prelate.
Why use the same name (or close enough)? When the SSPX is "fully integrated", it seems to me they will be known as the "FRATERNITY OF THE APOSTLES OF JESUS AND MARY". Wouldn't that be confusing? Just wondering.
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"The name of the congregation corresponds to the other denomination that Bp. Lefebvre thought for the SSPX." http://nonpossumus-vcr.blogspot.mx/2016/08/mons-faure-ha-fundado-una-nueva.html (http://nonpossumus-vcr.blogspot.mx/2016/08/mons-faure-ha-fundado-una-nueva.html)
SSPX (FSSPX) = Fraternité Sacerdotale des Apôtres de Jésus et Marie = FAJM (but this acronym is not used)
Société Sacerdotale des Apôtres de Jésus et Marie = SAJM
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"The name of the congregation corresponds to the other denomination that Bp. Lefebvre thought for the SSPX." http://nonpossumus-vcr.blogspot.mx/2016/08/mons-faure-ha-fundado-una-nueva.html (http://nonpossumus-vcr.blogspot.mx/2016/08/mons-faure-ha-fundado-una-nueva.html)
SSPX (FSSPX) = Fraternité Sacerdotale des Apôtres de Jésus et Marie = FAJM (but this acronym is not used)
Société Sacerdotale des Apôtres de Jésus et Marie = SAJM
Excuse me, the correct names are:
SSPX (FSSPX) = "Fraternité des Apôtres de Jésus et Marie" = FAJM (but this acronym is not used) See SSPX's statuts here: http://laportelatine.org/quisommesnous/statuts/statuts.php
Société Sacerdotale des Apôtres de Jésus et Marie = SAJM or SSAJM
See SAJM's decree of erection here: http://nonpossumus-vcr.blogspot.mx/2016/08/el-decreto-de-ereccion-de-la-sajm.html
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About the USML, Fr Trincado said me a week ago that the USML was founded with the aprobation of the bishops...
I asked Fr. Trincado and he told me: “The USML indeed was created with the approbation of Bp. Williamson, but that does not mean it was “erected” canonically. The USML didn’t adopt any associative form recognized by Canon Law, so the USML is a union of priests without existence before Canon Law” Fr. Trincado is also a lawyer.
Thanks a lot, it was I thought... some lingistic incomprehensions with Fr Trincado, but no real matter.
This foundation is a great news: by this way, there will be no risk to become sectarian as the SSPX: there will be two or more societies, not one big monster as the SSPX..
God bless all faithful heirs of the Abp true SSPX: MC, SAJM and all religious communities: dominicans, benedictines (two monasteries), FBMV of fr jahir ...