Author Topic: Bent JPII Crucifix on US District Website Rosary Crusade Page (Read 12007 times)

magdalena · « **Reply #45 on:** February 04, 2014, 07:46:58 PM »

Or this:

Btw, I found their Rosary just now while browsing Rosary Images.

Frances · « **Reply #46 on:** February 04, 2014, 08:19:42 PM »

:really-mad2: :dancing-banana:
Our Lord did not squat on the Cross. It's blasphemy to portray Christ in a lewd posture. For the SSPX to use even the top half is akin to spitting on Him with the Jews and Romans. Half truths are fully lies.

Neil Obstat · « **Reply #47 on:** February 06, 2014, 04:03:08 AM »

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Post

Quote from: bowler

Quote from: dreamtomorrow
Quote from: bowler
The crucifix in the SSPX website is not a complete picture, there is no way to conclude that it is the hideous JPII crucifix. Moreover, I conclude otherwise, just look at the body of the SSPX one, it is a strong wide chested man, with strong muscular short arms. The JPII is an emaciated bony long man.

I thought so as well, at first, but upon closer inspection and comparing to other crucifixes, both traditional and the "bent" ones, the one on the website looks more similar to the bent crucifixes. Traditional ones have Our Lord's arms more parallel to the beam, the one on the website you can see is obviously in a V shape and hanging off. Moreover the one on the website does not have the inscription of INRI at the top which is a component of a real crucifix. I sent them an email asking to take it down or switch it. Let's see how that goes.

See here all the crucifixes where Our Lord's arms are NOT more parallel to the beam, and are slightly bent like the one in the SSPX sight. The JPII crucifix is totally different.

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=crucifix&FORM=HDRSC2

Of all the examples on that page you link, only four of them come close to the one that was on the SSPX website. It's not just the angle of the corpus arms and the downward sagging crossbeam and the missing INRI. There is also the metallic color, texture, and the forward droop of the corpus head. No other crucifix I've ever seen has that forward drooping head like that. I am very aware of it because I had one on a rosary, and the feel of the head on my fingers when I was holding it was very distracting, and unlike any other rosary. I had to get rid of it for that reason alone (although I didn't like the other aspects of it, either -- maybe I could have put up with them, but not the feel of the forward extended head):

I would say the knees were also a distraction but since they are not visible here that is a little bit secondary. The prominent head is totally unacceptable and undignified. Crucifixes in ages past have NEVER had Our Lord's sacred head portrayed in that posture. Absolutely NEVER! If they had been it would have been SCANDALOUS.

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Neil Obstat · « **Reply #48 on:** February 06, 2014, 04:33:04 AM »

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The cross in question was commissioned by an 'artist' for Paul VI, who used it, long before JPII was elected.

In order for ANY real artist to come up with such a thing, he would have to have in mind several things, the worst of which is that he was after making a cross (it's not a crucifix) that is unlike any that had been in common use previously, by the popes of the past.

This one had to be DIFFERENT.

The texture was to be coarse and lacking fine detail, and the INRI would not be discernible.

The posture of Our Lord was to be SAGGING and as if PULLING DOWN on the crossbeam.

The crossbeam was to be SAGGING, as if to show DEFEAT.

The bent knees were to show the SAGGING aspect of everything above them.

No real artist could have emerged with this final product without having all these OBJECTIVES in mind from the BEGINNING.

Therefore, the only question remaining is, whose idea was it to have all these things? Was the artist informed that this was the goal?

Or, did the artist make up this list of features and submit it for approval? Because it HAD to have been APPROVED in advance. That's the way business is conducted, especially papal business. Nobody tries to surprise the Pope with something he does NOT WANT.

Or, was this list a product of some kind of discussion, such that it was known by all in advance?

There is no way any reputable artist would come up with a thing like that right out of the blue, as if it were a surprise. Such a shocking and disrespectful thing would have been unthinkable to anyone sane.

Paul VI MUST have ASKED for this look in his cross, in order for him to get it like this.

This is not a small matter. This cross is a tremendous problem.

In all justice it should be BANNED and all copies of it should be ordered destroyed. But now we see that it seems to be growing in popularity, which means that by being multiplied like viruses, it is going everywhere, and getting rid of them all is going to be a big difficulty. Recall that when JPII renovated Assisi for the SYNCHRONISM meetings (which were called 'not synchronism'), they removed all the beautiful Italian crucifixes and piled them up to be destroyed. Well, that's what has to be done with these ugly eyesores, only all over the world.

It's going to be a big job.

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Neil Obstat · « **Reply #49 on:** February 06, 2014, 04:55:18 AM »

Quote from: Columba

Here is the XSPX webpage rosary photo with the lower half of the crucifix cut off:

and here is a full view of the "broken cross" crucifix rosary:

The red beads are made from pressed rose petals. I received one of these rosaries, known as the "Papal Rosary," a few years ago as a gift brought back from Rome during the reign of JP2. Did the XSPX webpage hide of the lower half of the crucifix on purpose?

You are correct, Columba.

Notice as well, the centerpiece on the JPII rosary and on the Benedict XVI rosary. There is a picture of the pope himself there. Never before in the history of the Church were there rosaries used as souvenirs of a standing pope, until JPII came down the pike. It was alarming at the time, and I know because I was there. I heard many older ladies complain that the pope should not be putting his own picture on the rosary centerpiece. I thought at the time, "So what?" but I was young and stupid. I should have listened to these ladies, most of whom are now deceased.

They were complaining about a rosary centerpiece that was not a color picture, even, like these are. It was a medal made of metal, and the image of JPII on there was barely visible. It was as if they were trying to gradually get everyone used to the concept of having an image of a living pope on their rosary. Only later on, about 20 years, did they start to make the picture colored like these are in these images.

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Neil Obstat · « **Reply #50 on:** February 06, 2014, 05:24:09 AM »

.

Today, if you go to a local parish gift shop or Carter's or Pauline Books and Media or a California Mission gift shop, (all NovusOrdo) and if you ask for a crucifix with a downward bent crossbeam, they will say,

"Oh, you mean the PAPAL CRUCIFIX!"

That is what it's now called. If you're the pope, you use the papal crucifix.

Never mind that it's not a crucifix, because it has no INRI on top, and that is a NECESSARY aspect for any real crucifix.

There are a lot of stylized crosses, especially from China, that have no INRI. Designers think it 'LOOKS BETTER' without that clutter on top like that. So they keep putting out the goods and people keep buying them, so then we get more of the same.

People are generally very ignorant, and so are the shopkeepers in the parish gift stores. They only know about what sells. They don't know about what is right, or what things SHOULD be like. And if you try to explain it to them, they don't want to hear about it. They just become suspect of you because you sound like trouble. Their priests are not telling them what they need to know, and their boss is probably Jєωιѕн or protestant anyway, so who cares?

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JPaul · « **Reply #51 on:** February 06, 2014, 09:09:01 AM »

Quote from: Neil Obstat

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Today, if you go to a local parish gift shop or Carter's or Pauline Books and Media or a California Mission gift shop, (all NovusOrdo) and if you ask for a crucifix with a downward bent crossbeam, they will say,

"Oh, you mean the PAPAL CRUCIFIX!"

That is what it's now called. If you're the pope, you use the papal crucifix.

Never mind that it's not a crucifix, because it has no INRI on top, and that is a NECESSARY aspect for any real crucifix.

There are a lot of stylized crosses, especially from China, that have no INRI. Designers think it 'LOOKS BETTER' without that clutter on top like that. So they keep putting out the goods and people keep buying them, so then we get more of the same.

People are generally very ignorant, and so are the shopkeepers in the parish gift stores. They only know about what sells. They don't know about what is right, or what things SHOULD be like. And if you try to explain it to them, they don't want to hear about it. They just become suspect of you because you sound like trouble. Their priests are not telling them what they need to know, and their boss is probably Jєωιѕн or protestant anyway, so who cares?

.

But all of this is only your imagination, the Conciliar sect is only a "tendency" and they certainly cannot replace the visible Catholic Church's holy things with modernist leanings. They don't really exist.

:king:

Neil Obstat · « **Reply #52 on:** February 06, 2014, 03:02:29 PM »

.

Post = Feb. 2, UTC 19:13

Quote from: Frances

~~:dancing banana:~~
Centroamerica asks, "What is it (jp2 cross) doing on the sspx website?"
Answer: It is on the website because someone WANTS it there. (Now watch it suddenly disappear!) Even if it IS withdrawn and some excuse or half-baked apology made, it'll be too late. The people who were supposed to have seen it have already absorbed the subliminal poison. Those of us who take notice and know to object are not the intended audience.

4 days later, and it's still there on the Society's website.

So they must really want it there...

..................In Your Face!

As for those who were supposed to have seen it, this page is an ongoing reference page, and will be posted for another 5 months, in all likelihood, into July. The crusade runs to Pentecost Sunday (June 8th this year), so at that time people might be looking up that page all the more frequently. In the meantime, the Faithful are supposed to turn in their completed forms to their local chapel at the end of every month until Pentecost (they'll probably say hang on to the May sheets for an extra week and turn in the June 1-8 sheets at the same time with the May sheets). This is advance planning in action.

So we already know something about the goal of this crusade, outside of the vague 3 intentions. Just like in the past, when the intentions of any of the crusades were unrelated to the so-called answers that we received (the 'freeing' of the Mass and the 'lifting' of the Excoms - which were not intentions but were nonetheless claimed as 'answers'), this time, we can be assured that even though the 3 vague intentions are indeed vague, they are probably not quite vague enough for whatever GIFT of an ANSWER we 'receive' in the wake of the crusade to have been obviously related. We will then need the prescient explanation of The Great One to convince us that our prayers were answered -- AND HOW!

The lemmings have become addicted to their master's leadership.

What we already know about the real goal of this crusade is shown by this one photo on the sspx.org/en/news-events page. This photo means that we will be asked to accept more of what Newchurch is all about, because Newchurch is represented by the top half of that cross (it's not a crucifix) at the end of the rosary.

BTW: you don't have to worry that this image might disappear, if and when the Society scrubs it off their news-events page, because this image is saved on CI as a file and it is that file to which I am referring with the above image, not to the news-events page image, anymore. CathInfo is its own source for such archived docuмents.
The image above will remain here as long as Matthew leaves it here,
or as long as CI exists,
or as long as the Internet still works.

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Matthew · « **Reply #53 on:** February 06, 2014, 03:10:23 PM »

In a way, I hope they take it down. It would be evidence that they admit it's bad, etc. and for their purposes it would be a useless gesture in this day and age of the Internet where anyone can download and archive an article or image.

Matto · « **Reply #54 on:** February 06, 2014, 03:22:11 PM »

Quote from: Neil Obstat

The image above will remain here as long as Matthew leaves it here,
or as long as CI exists,
or as long as the Internet still works.

Or until the world ends.

Neil Obstat · « **Reply #55 on:** February 06, 2014, 03:28:09 PM »

Quote from: J.Paul

Quote from: Neil Obstat
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Today, if you go to a local parish gift shop or Carter's or Pauline Books and Media or a California Mission gift shop, (all NovusOrdo) and if you ask for a crucifix with a downward bent crossbeam, they will say,

"Oh, you mean the PAPAL CRUCIFIX!"

That is what it's now called. If you're the pope, you use the papal crucifix.
.

But all of this is only your imagination, the Conciliar sect is only a "tendency" and they certainly cannot replace the visible Catholic Church's holy things with modernist leanings. They don't really exist.

: king :

Are you trying to tell me that when I went into these gift shops and asked about these very crosses (which I did in fact do, which is why I'm posting this), and these cashiers and clerks responded time after time the same way, 25 years ago, by saying, "Oh, you mean the papal crucifix!" - that it was only in my imagination?

Tell me, J.Paul, how many times do you have to be told the same thing by different people in different places, before you can be convinced that it is not your own imagination?

I'm telling a fact. If you don't believe it, go test it out for yourself.

Go to any NovusOrdo parish gift shop and ask them if they have any of those lumpy metal crosses with the crossbeam bent downward, and pay attention to their reply. The will say to you, "Oh, you mean the papal crucifix?"

Go and see for yourself. You don't have to believe me and 'my imagination'.

Of course, perhaps it is YOUR imagination that is your own comfort zone. Perhaps you're much more comfy sitting there saying, "the Newchurch does not really exist."

I have news for you. Any priest who goes to St. Peter's Basilica to say Mass at one of the many side altars, and therefore goes into the sacristy to find appropriate vestments to wear for Mass, will find NONE. The principle major basilica in Rome has NO MORE VESTMENTS for the visiting priests to wear. So if that's what you mean by "they certainly cannot replace the visible Catholic Church's holy things with modernist leanings; they don't really exist," then fine, I will agree, the holy things of the visible Catholic Church in Rome do not really exist.

It is rather as Skunkwurxspx has said so well, the spider venom has coursed the veins of the Church and has rendered the muscle tissue a juicy pulp to be extracted, leaving the empty shell. What you see at St. Peter's Basilica in Rome is an empty shell. It may be a glorious shell, but it is empty.

Get used to it.

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Neil Obstat · « **Reply #56 on:** February 06, 2014, 03:35:40 PM »

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In case you have the creeping urge to accuse me again of making it up, and that it's just my imagination, the experience of going to St. Peter's Basilica and looking for Mass vestments is of the REAL order. It actually happened, and it happened 10 years ago. I am not making this up.

Now, if it happened 10 years ago, do you think that during the past 10 years the traditional vestments have been RETURNED to St. Peter's Basilica?

What is it about Pope Francis, in your view, that would give you the clue that he is prone to return traditional vestments to ANY CHURCH, let alone to St. Peter's Basilica?

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JPaul · « **Reply #57 on:** February 06, 2014, 07:14:57 PM »

Quote from: Neil Obstat

Quote from: J.Paul
Quote from: Neil Obstat
.

Today, if you go to a local parish gift shop or Carter's or Pauline Books and Media or a California Mission gift shop, (all NovusOrdo) and if you ask for a crucifix with a downward bent crossbeam, they will say,

"Oh, you mean the PAPAL CRUCIFIX!"

That is what it's now called. If you're the pope, you use the papal crucifix.
.

But all of this is only your imagination, the Conciliar sect is only a "tendency" and they certainly cannot replace the visible Catholic Church's holy things with modernist leanings. They don't really exist.

: king :

Are you trying to tell me that when I went into these gift shops and asked about these very crosses (which I did in fact do, which is why I'm posting this), and these cashiers and clerks responded time after time the same way, 25 years ago, by saying, "Oh, you mean the papal crucifix!" - that it was only in my imagination?

Tell me, J.Paul, how many times do you have to be told the same thing by different people in different places, before you can be convinced that it is not your own imagination?

I'm telling a fact. If you don't believe it, go test it out for yourself.

Go to any NovusOrdo parish gift shop and ask them if they have any of those lumpy metal crosses with the crossbeam bent downward, and pay attention to their reply. The will say to you, "Oh, you mean the papal crucifix?"

Go and see for yourself. You don't have to believe me and 'my imagination'.

Of course, perhaps it is YOUR imagination that is your own comfort zone. Perhaps you're much more comfy sitting there saying, "the Newchurch does not really exist."

I have news for you. Any priest who goes to St. Peter's Basilica to say Mass at one of the many side altars, and therefore goes into the sacristy to find appropriate vestments to wear for Mass, will find NONE. The principle major basilica in Rome has NO MORE VESTMENTS for the visiting priests to wear. So if that's what you mean by "they certainly cannot replace the visible Catholic Church's holy things with modernist leanings; they don't really exist," then fine, I will agree, the holy things of the visible Catholic Church in Rome do not really exist.

It is rather as Skunkwurxspx has said so well, the spider venom has coursed the veins of the Church and has rendered the muscle tissue a juicy pulp to be extracted, leaving the empty shell. What you see at St. Peter's Basilica in Rome is an empty shell. It may be a glorious shell, but it is empty.

Get used to it.

.

Ummmm..... The post was a tongue in cheek poke at SSPX/Resistance et al stance that the Conciliar Church is not an entity but only a tendency. Sorry, I should have pointed that out.

I perfectly agree with you, these are material items manufactured and distributed as objects of Conciliar demonic devotions. Did you expect differently from Paulist books?

These are indeed tangible objects created by a non-Catholic sect, made to impersonate and replace their Catholic counterparts.

I think it goes without saying why the current Roman occupants have no Catholic vestments.

Do you wonder why the clerks immediately identify these un-Catholic things as "PAPAL" crucifixes? What does that tell you?

Neil Obstat · « **Reply #58 on:** February 06, 2014, 09:37:16 PM »

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Thank you, J.Paul. I feel so much better! HAHAHAHA

When I went to Paulist Books and Media one time, and had a pseudo-spiritual conversation with the cashier, she divulged to me the fact that she was a religious (sister). I wouldn't have known it by her appearance. I could have made allusion to that fact, but I wanted to stay on her good side because of additional information I was looking for.

In the process, she further divulged to me that they have a Eucharistic chapel right beyond that doorway over there (pointing). All in all, I got the impression that she expected me to make a bee-line to walk through the doorway and thereby enter the chapel. But I had a sensation of dread at the thought, and consequently told her that I'd like to go and visit, but I didn't want to be late, so maybe I'd return later for that.

It was a bit sad to think that I was looking for an excuse not to spend a few minutes with the Blessed Sacrament. But to be honest, I didn't think that there was any Real Presence to be found in there. That was the really sad part.

It is the trivialization of the Eucharist in that way that is inherent in the loss of faith. I was a volunteer at the Barry Nidorf Juvenile Hall in Sylmar when they brought in a tabernacle to the "Catholic Chaplin's Office." I asked about the decision to do that and they assured me that they got approval from Roger Cardinal Mahony to do so. That was supposed to make it okay, I guess.

The "Chaplin" wasn't a priest, nor a man, nor a religious. I guess I should be glad she was a Catholic! When they first brought it in, all the volunteers would dutifully genuflect when they came into the office, which probably made the "Chaplin" feel pretty important! And they would keep their voices low, out of respect, of course (ditto the Chaplin's feelings). After about 3 weeks, that was 'history' though, and they would stomp on in like always, and tell their jokes, sometimes not so clean ones, too. Right in front of the tabernacle. Then they moved the tabernacle to the corner where it wouldn't be such a prominently offended (offensive?) sight.

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Nickolas · « **Reply #59 on:** February 06, 2014, 10:23:58 PM »

Nothing, nothing happens in the SSPX leadership by mistake, nothing. The use of this "papal crucifix" is an example. Thank you Skunkwurxsspx for posting this. The intended use of this crucifix is part of the subtle re-branding of the SSPX and it is simply not going to work, period. While the SSPX is chasing after Rome, Rome itself is running away faster than a fox chasing a chicken toward protestant modernism. SSPX, just how far do you want to chase them? Most, once they see confirmation of your path, will not follow you and those who do, well they would follow the chicken over the cliff if that is where it leads them and when they do, what have you gained and who cares?

The truth is that if you need to ask where to turn in your "tally" , well my friend, don't bother. God is not impressed by your tally, whether it be 5 million or 50 million. God sees the heart, not the rote totals. God owns the cows on a thousand hills, do you think he is impressed by your one baby calf? Holy cow, I have even learned priests are telling the laity that if children or even toddlers are nearby when the Rosary is said, they can count them too in the tally. When does God just start laying waste to the entire SSPX for their depraved misuse of a devotion and Holy prayer? Tally me up as disgusted, SSPX and I don't even attend a resistance chapel.