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Author Topic: Being too picky about your Priest  (Read 7979 times)

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Offline Meg

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Re: Being too picky about your Priest
« Reply #15 on: May 24, 2019, 11:53:03 AM »
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  • Yes. Though I don't want to have to go digging for evidence right now, I'm pretty sure many resistance faithful who were on-board in the first few years remember the roasting we gave them over this subject. Unless, of course, the resistance is now developing it's own convenient "memory holes" in imitation of the accordistas we disdained.
    *reposted since it seems my original reply disappeared

    Don't worry about digging for evidence. I believe you. I wasn't aware of the Resistance in the earlier years. It's unfortunate that there are those who are developing convenient 'memory holes,' though maybe some of those who are complaining about the lack of recorded sermons are not part of or supportive of the Resistance anyway.
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Stanley N

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    Re: Recording sermons
    « Reply #16 on: May 24, 2019, 01:00:43 PM »
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  • If you think about the traditional priests you've known over the decades who wanted their sermons recorded (rather than tolerated it), and what happened to them, it suggests it's a red flag.

    If a priest wants his sermons recorded, it likely means he thinks his sermons are particularly eloquent, or he thinks he has something unique to say. Even if true, both are risks to pride. The latter is especially insulating. If a priest thinks he has some unique understanding, he tends to disregard anyone who says something different, and if that is allowed to develop, he can become self-assured in errors. In former times, a priest's risk of pride in a popular apostolate could be checked by obedience to a superior, but in the trad world, that structure barely exists.


    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Being too picky about your Priest
    « Reply #17 on: May 24, 2019, 01:46:47 PM »
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  • Bishops and priests should not be afraid to have themselves recorded.
    The world and faithful NEED transparency.
    That said, maybe Bp. Zendejas doesn't want it because of what happened to Bp. W regarding the h0Ɩ0cαųst? Just thinking out loud...

    When did Bp. Z start asking not to be recorded? Did he used to allow recordings?

    I have told this story before, but it is a direct answer to your question:

    The first time Fr. Zendejas came to Minnesota for Mass was in February 2015.

    My house was the Mass venue.

    I invited some of the local Pfeifferites, but when they reported it back to Fr. Pfeiffer, the latter sent Fr. Hewko (good cop) up here a few days later (i.e., on the scheduled day of the Mass at my house), who "conveniently" scheduled Masses at the two Pfeifferite chapels immediately before and after our scheduled Mass time.

    In other words, those who had planned on attending were now put in the position of having to omit attending Fr. Hewko's Mass (which would allow Fr. Pfeiffer to say, "Well it looks like you don't need me in Minnesota..."), so they all went.

    But about the time our Mass had ended, there was knocking on the door, and when I answered, it was 3-4 men from the Pfeiffer chapel.

    I invited them in.

    As soon as they were introduced to Fr. Zendejas, one of them pulled out a tape recorder with one hand, and a pre-printed questionaire in the other (the handiwork of Fr. Hewko; this questionaire was later published on Cor Mariae and other Pfeifferian sites).

    Fr. Zendejas immediately replied "no recorder."

    The Pfeifferians complied, but continued with their questions.

    A few minutes into it, we were all in a huge argument.

    It was pretty obvious that they wanted to record the conversation in order to pick it apart, and use it in the war against +BW (i.e., the November/2014 defection of the New Jersey and Connecticut chapels was fresh in the background, and the war was in full swing).

    Someone might ask themselves, "Well, why should Fr. Zendejas have had to worry about his sermons being picked apart, if all his answers would have been traditional in the line of Lefebvre?"

    If Fr. Zendejas had been a native English speaker, I myself might have agreed with that question.

    But he is not, and anyone who has conversed with him knows his English is poor.

    When I speak with him on the phone, I only get about 75% of what he is saying (and I talk to him frequently, and am used to his accent).

    Around the same time, there was a Blue Paper article the bishop had written, which received a particularly diligent parsing by The Recusant and other Pfeifferites.  Fr. Zendejas had made some statement about the post-conciliar reforms, which the Pfeifferites had rended into "the problems are not with the Council itself, but only with the post-conciliar reforms."

    I think these two events were not too far apart from each other in time, and it was then that Fr. Zendejas decided, "OK, my English is not good enough to write or speak, without making inadvertent mistakes; better I don't do this anymore."

    On the other hand, I noticed Bishop Zendejas recently published a sermon he gave last month in Avrille.  Maybe now that his enemies have largely dissolved into home-alone, Moranists and Hewkonians, he is willing to risk speaking publicly again (i.e., there really isn't much opposition to him left in the wake of the Boston meltdown).

    In any case, this is my best guess as to why he has been reticent until now to say or write much publicly.
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline Mr G

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    Re: Being too picky about your Priest
    « Reply #18 on: May 24, 2019, 02:17:48 PM »
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  • As soon as they were introduced to Fr. Zendejas, one of them pulled out a tape recorder with one hand, and a pre-printed questionaire in the other (the handiwork of Fr. Hewko; this questionaire was later published on Cor Mariae and other Pfeifferian sites).

    Fr. Zendejas immediately replied "no recorder."

    The Pfeifferians complied, but continued with their questions.

    A few minutes into it, we were all in a huge argument.


    Sounds like Fr. Zendejas saw that the Pfeifferites were just looking for a fight or conflict rather than ask questions privately and without a recorder and  pre-printed questionnaire, which they would have done if they were honestly struggling with some concerns.

    Offline Mega-fin

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    Re: Being too picky about your Priest
    « Reply #19 on: May 24, 2019, 03:26:30 PM »
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  • As for secretive, that is a load of hogwash.

    Bp. Z is not secretive. He says public Masses in at least a half-dozen locations.
    It was Bp Z who wanted the group we have to have public Masses, just to support this 
    Please disregard everything I have said; I have tended to speak before fact checking.


    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Being too picky about your Priest
    « Reply #20 on: May 24, 2019, 05:55:42 PM »
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  • True. I remember the resistance was highly critical in the early years when it was leaked that the SSPX priests had been cautioned by Menz not to allow their sermons to be recorded for that very reason. It was decried on the fora as evidence of their decline and untrustworthiness. Just sayin'...

    By itself, an organization not allowing sermons to be published CAN BE a red flag.

    Just like not allowing one's tax returns to be made public CAN BE a bad sign. But that doesn't mean Trump is guilty of any financial crimes. He might just want to keep his data private, and that is his right. He has broken no laws, nor is he inherently crooked, because he has thus far refused to released his tax returns. It's a common custom only. (Note: although all recent presidents have done this, it means nothing: all their real income goes through foundations, corporations, trusts, off-shore holdings, etc. so their private tax returns say precisely NOTHING about them)

    The democrats want Trump's financial data/tax returns, and Bp. Z's enemies want his sermons for the exact same reason: to nitpick them, torture his words until they scream, and distort them all out of shape until they "have something" they can use in their propaganda against him. That is a fact.

    In both cases, the person in question (Trump, Bp. Zendejas) has enemies. And those enemies would LOVE to go on a fishing expedition.

    But it's not as simple as, "If he has nothing to hide, why worry?" Because in both cases, uneducated men on the street/laymen can be suckered in by masterfully presented propaganda. How many non-accountants are familiar with tax law? There are ALL KINDS of things that look shady to the un-initiated, but are perfectly lawful and legal if you are educated in tax law.

    Likewise, there are many theological and Church matters which laymen haven't the first clue about -- but they will likely be taken in by well-presented propaganda from a group with an agenda.

    I wouldn't have left the SSPX and completely turned against them if their only crime was not publishing sermons online. There would have to be a bunch of compromises, changes, and contradictions as well (see the thread: www.cathinfo.com/c.htm ) for me to do that.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Being too picky about your Priest
    « Reply #21 on: May 24, 2019, 07:46:26 PM »
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  • Well, honestly, there could be reasons of prudence here.  At the end of the day, you can never guarantee what's going to come out of any given priest's mouth.  He might slip up and say something imprudent or stupid, and or something that might reflect badly on the Society.  I mean, you can never know if some priest might crack and claim from the pulpit that the h0Ɩ0cαųst was grossly exaggerated, and this might reflect badly on the Society.   :laugh1:

    But there is some truth to that, that people will smear the Society for something that might have just slipped out of a single priest's mouth.

    Even before Vatican II, the bishops generally forbade most priests from speaking to the media, but only designated priests who were trusted and/or trained ... lest something end up being said that reflects badly on the Church.

    Now, this is true of a group.

    What if a priest, for instance, thinks that he's not very talented at giving sermons and just doesn't want them floating out there, or is otherwise a bit camera shy.  I know people who hate having their picture taken because they feel that they are not very photogenic.  Similarly, I could see a priest being camera-shy or audio-shy, or whatever.  Maybe they don't think their voices sounds very good.

    Or, in general, have you never heard of people who are a little shy?  Although I have never personally met +Zendejas, I strongly suspect that he's on the shy side, just looking at him.

    Also, have you never seen someone being brutalized after having something they said taken out of context?

    Offline JmJ2cents

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    Re: Being too picky about your Priest
    « Reply #22 on: May 25, 2019, 12:07:41 AM »
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  • The people who are too picky about their priest will never be satisfied with anyone.  IMO they were never in the Resistance for the right reasons but most likely were always trouble makers from the get go, always complaining about everything. What will these home aloners do when they need to confess or need the last rights or a Catholic burial?  What will their parents do? What will their children do.  What happens when they need a priest to witness a marriage?  What an abyss of despair. Sad really.  :facepalm:


    Offline BelovedStJohn

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    Re: Being too picky about your Priest
    « Reply #23 on: May 25, 2019, 01:04:04 AM »
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  • I find this thread interesting.  I've seen some awful hatchet jobs on recordings of priests and bishops and politicians by people of intolerance and biased opinions blowing things way out of proportion and have been sad about that.   I am not surprised that any person refuses to go on the record.  I am not surprised that any person (even myself right now) chooses to make a comment on a forum without being fully identified to all and sundry.

    It is usually the case that I react against or push-back such attacks by taking positive towards the victim of the unwarranted war of words. 

    That is not to say that the criticism or the highlighting of error using any recorded medium is wrong but it is the unbalanced over-reaction that draws my ire.

    Offline Kolar

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    Re: Being too picky about your Priest
    « Reply #24 on: May 25, 2019, 06:07:40 AM »
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  • There is a difference between priests and bishops.
    Bishops are successors of the Apostles and part of the "teaching church". There duty is to teach all nations. Their teaching should be public.

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Being too picky about your Priest
    « Reply #25 on: May 25, 2019, 11:25:02 AM »
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  • It's hard for me to even relate to this issue.  There aren't many of us who have access to more than one certainly valid priest.  There are probably those who have none.


    Offline MaterDominici

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    Re: Being too picky about your Priest
    « Reply #26 on: May 25, 2019, 01:28:23 PM »
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  • There is a difference between priests and bishops.
    Bishops are successors of the Apostles and part of the "teaching church". There duty is to teach all nations. Their teaching should be public.
    "public" has never been defined as "accessible on the internet"
    .
    Of all the bishops in the world of every Catholic variety, how many of them have their sermons posted online?

    Online Pax Vobis

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    Re: Being too picky about your Priest
    « Reply #27 on: May 25, 2019, 02:11:19 PM »
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  • I agree, Mater-D.  If you want to broadcast Bishop Z's sermons, then go record him on your iphone like the paparazzi.  He has no moral imperative to "live stream" anything.  His job is to teach the faith to those around him.  No one NEEDS Bishop Z's sermons to save their soul.  Go read some good spiritual books. 
    .
    Maybe one day he will have an email sermon like +Williamson?  Yet even +Williamson has the time to edit and refine his emails before sending them out.  
    .
    Bishop Z's english is not very good.  He has already been accosted by enemies who wanted to trap him in an interview.  Are these not prudent reasons to avoid controversy and to just concentrate on what is important.  i.e. the Mass and the Faith?  I think so.


    Offline homeschoolmom

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    Re: Being too picky about your Priest
    « Reply #28 on: May 25, 2019, 03:08:00 PM »
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  • Of all the bishops in the world of every Catholic variety, how many of them have their sermons posted online?

    I was thinking of that, that of all the sermons of all the priests through all of history, a percentage of a percentage have ever been recorded in any way. It is not the norm. We do live in abnormal times, so there's more need for recordings now, but it's still not the norm. 

    It's true that some priests or bishops may not want to be recorded for the wrong reasons, but not wanting to be recorded isn't wrong in itself. I think it's perfectly normal. I think even having every word of every discussion recorded in a forum like this is a strange thing. We get so caught up in what is normal for our times that we forget how much of it is actually abnormal in the big picture of humanity. Sometimes it's hard to find a balance.

    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Being too picky about your Priest
    « Reply #29 on: May 25, 2019, 10:12:42 PM »
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  • "public" has never been defined as "accessible on the internet"

    Good point!

    This is an example of hundreds of Catholics rejecting someone (Fr. Pfeiffer) but completely accepting certain of his ideas without thinking, or letting him frame the parameters and/or the debate.

    How many times has Fr. Pfeiffer equated "public" with "on the Internet"? But has anyone actually stopped and thought about that? Are the two things really equivalent?

    Can we really say that this or that great saint (priest or bishop) would have DEFINITELY had all his sermons on Youtube? We could debate it, but no one can say for sure.

    There is no law that says we have to embrace the Internet. To find a spouse, for finance, shopping, information, socialization, sermons, or anything else.


    What's next? Saying that Catholics without a Tridentine Mass option every Sunday are obligated under pain of mortal sin to "attend" an online Mass? 

    Here is my point: Catholics are allowed to reject the Internet for any or all of the things that it offers (including the services I listed above).
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