Any organization, whatever good it has done or is doing, that ordains a man like Urrutigoity -- whose perversion had already led to the compiling of a massive dossier -- is easily infiltrated by those who had already infiltrated much more organized and secure institutions.  Frankly, the handling of the Urrutigoity case still amazes me, not least because of how similar it was to countless cases in what eventually became the Novus Ordo.  We would all like to believe our priests are well-trained, hyper-vigilant saints (in the making, at least).  Maybe some are. Most, however, are only (above average?) men given a training of oft-quetionable quality who are then sent onto an insanely-disorienting battlefield whereupon they are worked so hard they hardly have time to think, much less remain ever-vigilant against very well-trained, determined enemies.  Yes, anything is possible with God's grace, but He only gives His grace to the humble and, even then, sometimes His wisdom allows the malice of fallen human nature to achieve its nefarious ends, if only so His own glorious ends may thereby be exalted all the more.  The God-man suffered an indescribably horrific death -- after that, anything goes and we should never be surprised at (nor question) what God will allow.  His ways are not our ways.

The Urrutigoity case always through me for a loop. The man was a flamer, and no one saw it for 8 years he was a seminarian, and then all the other years? How blind can one be?

I remember the day I was introduced to a now deceased sede "bishop", the first instant that I saw him, shook his hand, looking into his eyes, I said to myself, this guy is a flamer of the worst order. Yet, the people I was with, and the parishioners of his chapel, thought nothing of his manerism and live in handiman. I guess people think that the people who aspire to the priesthood, are very cultured, and show it by being soft?

Having it on good authority (namely His Excellency himself) an official press release will soon be issued with respect to the expulsion of His Excellency +W from the SSPX. No doubt it will be posted in Cathinfo, or a link shall be placed therein.

These are very very sad days.

Having it on good authority (namely His Excellency himself) an official press release will soon be issued with respect to the expulsion of His Excellency +W from the SSPX. No doubt it will be posted in Cathinfo, or a link shall be placed therein.

These are very very sad days.

Here is some news on Bp. Williamson's expulsion, as of 10/16:

http://www.novusordowatch.org/archive.htm

http://truerestoration.blogspot.com/2012/10/the-latest-from-london.html

In my opinion, there's no way Bp. Williamson will ever comply with all of these conditions!

They should have replaced Bishop Fellay at the last Chapter meeting...

What is the difference between expell, defrock and excommunication.

Ask Bishop Fellay why he is quick to punish and persecute good and holy priests while his peers in Rome take very little or any action against rapist, child molestors, thieves, liars, hypocrites, money lovers, abortion lovers, liberals, greedy power hungry etc.

While it is certainly a sad turn of events, what would you have people say?  Or better yet, what would you have them do?  The society that everyone took to be, and most still take to be the Catholic Church stole the churches of the entire world.  That does not make all other thievery unimportant, but it does put things into perspective.  I tend to think we have had these things taken because we have secretly cherished an inordinate affection for them which is detrimental to our spiritual well-being.  God's permitting them to be taken, by whatever means, may prove to be an immense blessing.  Only time will tell.

I agree, but that is not what a court would call it.  Still, it is the principle involved that matters and I agree with you that it is wrong.

IMO, we were stripped of the material trappings of the Holy Faith because we had completely lost touch with the spirit that animates them and which is the sole raison d'etre of all the external actions.  I have been around for a while and been blessed to visit many chapels all over the world.  Despite a good deal of sincerity, fidelity, and apparent piety, Traddieland as a whole does not strike me as all that different from the pre-V2 Church.  That is neither a condemnation nor a compliment.  What I mean is this: it seems as if we are far too concerned about the externals and the material elements of piety rather than true, solid piety itself.  Further (IMO), the reason Traddieland keeps going through these material purgations is we have yet to learn the original lesson: it is supernatural faith, hope, and charity that matter and all the trappings are merely means to that sublime, spiritual end.  "Seek ye first..."  When these things keep being taken, should we not at least pause to ask: are we truly seeking first things first, or is that just what we want to believe?  It is my belief that we will not see any kind of true, healthy, rightly-ordered restoration until we learn and fully accept that when the letter holds the primary place, it kills; it can only play its subordinate and indirectly life-giving role when it is ordered to and animated by the spirit, which alone gives life.

I admit that, despite my wordiness, I have not made my point as clearly as I would have hoped.  Even if I have, I don't know how good or useful it might be to others.  Basically, I think that, despite the decades of heartache, disappointment and betrayal, we still have our priorities backward, at least to some extent.  It is entirely possible that building brick houses during our sojourn in the desert was, in fact, the wrong approach all along.  Then again, maybe it was right?  I cannot say.  How many people even question our response to the Mass and churches being taken away?  I don't know what the right response should have been or is, but God allowed what He did for a reason.  In the days of the OT, He caused worship to cease precisely because He was tired of receiving mere lip-service from men whose hearts were far from Him.  When their hearts had changed, He restored the worship.  Have our hearts changed?  Was our adherence to (the material elements of) true worship in the face of its having been removed His will, or was it our own?  I am not pretending to answer such questions; I only ask them, knowing that the answers are far beyond my limited ability and role.  I don't even know if the answers to such questions would serve any good purpose at this point.  God alone knows; trust in Him, not in men.

Elizabeth said:

Fr. Chazal, who joined the SSPX seminary at the age of 17, spent 24 years in the Society,who

was expelled by him on his patron saint's day, was asked if this was the case and he said "No" to

the infiltration, mason agent etc. nonsense.

Fr. Chazal's word is good enough for me.  



I think Father Chazal was being charitable and refused to speculate.

However, we're dealing with reality and there has to be an explanation?

 

You were there?  I didn't hear him being so charitable, he was fiery and earthy.  He said all sorts of things about his former bishop.

... Bp. Fellay, who was raised traditional Catholic...

Was he?  I heard he went to a Novus Ordo school.  Didn't he say in some interview on Gloria TV that he had the choice and finally he chose Tradition?  (I seem to recall hearing something along these lines, but maybe someone else knows for sure?)  Maybe he was raised totally traditional - but could someone confirm this?
(not saying it might mean he was an infiltrator, but just confirming or wondering if he was really "raised Traditional Catholic")

You could easily be right, PAT317..I could have mixed that up...Fr. elaborated on the particular area in which +Fellay was raised, I'm certain of that.  He may have used the word sheltered?

The main thing is the paranoia about Bp. Felley being a mason being shot down by Fr. Chazal.  And Fr, Pfieffer, can't imagine him holding back if that were the case.  

You don't necessarily have to be mole to be doing the wrong things with a traditional Catholic Society, to make poor judgements or have antipathy toward a fellow bishop and so on.