Quote from: PAT317

Even when I've read about Archbishop Lefebvre retiring from the Holy Ghost Fathers, to me it was sad, and frustrating.  It was terrible, the downfall of so many great orders in the aftermath of Vatican II, and good priests & bishops being unable to stop it.

Yes, I was frustrated when I first read that as well. A good group that the liberals took over.

But as you said, it turned out to be for the best, because we all know what happened next. :) Let's hope something similar happens with Bishop Williamson.

At least now Bishop Williamson will be able to speak more freely, and that will help all of us.  That's why I look forward to Fr. Pfeiffer and Fr Chazal's sermons - they speak freely, and keep us informed, not like the sermons of my chapel SSPX priest.  I am sad too, however, because the SSPX will never be the same again.  Someone mentioned to me that he wouldn't be surprised if Bishop Fellay ends up expelling the other two Bishops too, since he knows they aren't in agreement with him.  Time will tell.

Any organization, whatever good it has done or is doing, that ordains a man like Urrutigoity -- whose perversion had already led to the compiling of a massive dossier -- is easily infiltrated by those who had already infiltrated much more organized and secure institutions.  Frankly, the handling of the Urrutigoity case still amazes me, not least because of how similar it was to countless cases in what eventually became the Novus Ordo.  We would all like to believe our priests are well-trained, hyper-vigilant saints (in the making, at least).  Maybe some are. Most, however, are only (above average?) men given a training of oft-quetionable quality who are then sent onto an insanely-disorienting battlefield whereupon they are worked so hard they hardly have time to think, much less remain ever-vigilant against very well-trained, determined enemies.  Yes, anything is possible with God's grace, but He only gives His grace to the humble and, even then, sometimes His wisdom allows the malice of fallen human nature to achieve its nefarious ends, if only so His own glorious ends may thereby be exalted all the more.  The God-man suffered an indescribably horrific death -- after that, anything goes and we should never be surprised at (nor question) what God will allow.  His ways are not our ways.

Quote from: Elizabeth

Fr. Chazal...was asked if this was the case and he said "No" to

the infiltration, mason agent etc. nonsense.

Fr. Chazal's word is good enough for me.  

I know nothing of the man, other than his name (which I have only recently read on this very site).  I have no idea what he was asked, how specific the actual question was, etc., but it is the height of naivete, in my opinion, to think that those who caused this mess largely by making effective use of infiltration would then, once we are scattered and leaderless, suddenly refrain from using such an effective method.  In other words, Fr. Chazal's opinions on a specific case aside, what is, in fact, utter nonsense, is that a group as visible as the SSPX is and has been since its inception would be left to go about its business without being infiltrated.  If people prefer to leave the question of specific people alone, I can respect that, but it is colossal naivete to think that no infiltration has taken place, even if it has been kept to a very respectable minimum.  IMO, this is the only rational conclusion and it is based upon fallen human nature and the well-known methods of the enemies.  Surely there is no need to see a bogeyman hiding in every confessional, etc., but to pretend all is well and the SSPX is a more or less flawless body composed entirely of unquestionably-loyal men is extremely unwise.  Trust in God, not in men.  May God bless and our Lady keep each of you.

A good post. It would not harm the "resistance" to know the credentials of it's warriors. Assuming, on the basis of appearance and sermon, that someone is great, holy and a saint, is, in my opinion, not enough. In trying to promote Tradition where I live, I myself got my fingers burned in trying to rope in people I had not bothered to find out more about.

Dear Matthew, I would hope, given this posters contributions to the forum, that you would not ban him.

Quote from: Telesphorus

Dear Matthew, I would hope, given this posters contributions to the forum, that you would not ban him.

I was letting him know I wasn't pleased (to say the least). Allow me to elaborate...

Chrstnoel:

Consider this your ONE warning.

I don't want to hear people openly spouting paranoia like this, at least when the object of the paranoia is ME or CATHINFO.

If you or anyone else wants to be bat#### crazy, that's fine. But you'll do it someplace else, not on my forum. You won't badmouth my forum ON my forum.

I think that's pretty reasonable. I'm still waiting for anyone to answer my challenge from 4 years ago -- can anyone show me a forum where it's permitted to openly badmouth the owner and/or the forum, and remain a member in good standing?

Go join Catholic Answers and call the management a bunch of non-Catholic protestants. Go join Fisheaters and call the owner a few names. How about Ignis Ardens? Go sign up for an account, and call Patricius a few names.

Your account wouldn't last a day.

Would you go into a Mosque and start talking crap about Mohammed?  Why not? Maybe you only act that rude and bold because you're safe behind your monitor?

Matthew, pardon me, my most sincere apologies to all. :sign-surrender:

FROM NOVUS ORDO WATCH ( www.novusordowatch.org)

Waiting for Official Confirmation

EXPELLED
Bp. Richard Williamson, SSPX


Pending a possible final appeal, Bp. Richard Williamson has been expelled from the Society of St. Pius X, several SSPX clergy have reportedly confirmed informally. Bp. Fellay had sent Bp. Williamson a long letter, dated October 4, in which he gave him a 10-day ultimatum.

Oct. 15 Update (23:28 GMT): "The expulsion has not yet been formalized but seems imminent, according to His Excellency [Williamson]." (Source)

Quote from: Matthew

Does Ethelred correspond with +Fellay personally as well? I doubt it.

Matthew, the context of your rhetorical question I don't understand. Is it because I up-voted Chrstnoel's post about Bp Fellay's false mystic Madame Germaine Rossiniere from the 1990ies in Switzerland?
Well, in that case I'm sorry for having caused confusion to you. When in the morning I enter Cathinfo for the first time with very, very many posts in a foreign language waiting to be seen, I sometimes just scan them and skip the details... So when the keyword "Bp Fellay & False mystic" caught my eye in Chrstnoel's post, I up-voted it because I would just love to see more details about this "false mystic" topic, which we talked about here some time ago. So far I unfortunately couldn't get any more information about this from Swiss persons, because the entire Swiss SSPX district seems to be pro Bp Fellay...

So, unfortunately I didn't get the undertone in Chrstnoel's post (also he isn't a native English speaker?) which you, Matthew, clarified later.
I know that you and your forum are truly traditional Catholic, and I hope nobody thinks that I would question that obvious fact. Thanks for all your trouble to run one of the last Internet refuges for English-speaking traditional Catholics. It's important. So, please keep up the good work, Matthew, as well as all the other constructive contributors.

I brought up your name, because you were the first one I could think of who corresponds with +Williamson by e-mail.

But lots of others do, too.

My point was: how many people can lay claim to a similar level of communication with +Fellay?  I bet the number is far fewer, possibly zero. I don't believe +Fellay condescends to rub elbows with "the common man" like Bishop Williamson.

Bishop Williamson is much more like Abp. Lefebvre, who conferred with religious Sisters, etc. during any discussions with Rome. He certainly didn't do everything under a veil of secrecy, or with zero respect for the laymen who fight their own battles for Tradition every day.

I think it was with much wisdom that +Lefebvre selected +Williamson first for a successor.

Quote from: gladius_veritatis

Quote from: Elizabeth

Fr. Chazal...was asked if this was the case and he said "No" to

the infiltration, mason agent etc. nonsense.

Fr. Chazal's word is good enough for me.  

I know nothing of the man, other than his name (which I have only recently read on this very site).  I have no idea what he was asked, how specific the actual question was, etc., but it is the height of naivete, in my opinion, to think that those who caused this mess largely by making effective use of infiltration would then, once we are scattered and leaderless, suddenly refrain from using such an effective method.  In other words, Fr. Chazal's opinions on a specific case aside, what is, in fact, utter nonsense, is that a group as visible as the SSPX is and has been since its inception would be left to go about its business without being infiltrated.  If people prefer to leave the question of specific people alone, I can respect that, but it is colossal naivete to think that no infiltration has taken place, even if it has been kept to a very respectable minimum.  IMO, this is the only rational conclusion and it is based upon fallen human nature and the well-known methods of the enemies.  Surely there is no need to see a bogeyman hiding in every confessional, etc., but to pretend all is well and the SSPX is a more or less flawless body composed entirely of unquestionably-loyal men is extremely unwise.  Trust in God, not in men.  May God bless and our Lady keep each of you.

I know several who think this very thing, who believe it's reasonable ...

... to pretend all is well, and the SSPX is a more-or-less flawless body composed entirely of unquestionably-loyal men ...

... and they do not appreciate hearing or seeing anything to the contrary.  It's like
those 3 monkeys:  Hear No Evil - See No Evil - Speak No Evil.

                         


It seems to me that +Fellay entirely relies on this Pollyanna mindset among
the faithful, and this is the basis of his tyrannical power in the Society.



My 2 cents.

I agree, and that being the case let's name who the infiltrators are, and discuss the why's and why nots? The SSPXers here who see these priests all the time should be able to figure out who they are. Let's name names.