Author Topic: Behold Williamson is Officially Expelled, Pending Appeal (Read 26442 times)

PAT317 · « **Reply #30 on:** October 15, 2012, 08:55:49 AM »

Quote from: PereJoseph

I am morally confident that he is a liberal because of his past statements and, especially, his actions. I am just looking for something a little more concrete, like a specific ideological school or party affiliation.
I am simply looking for some information regarding his actual political beliefs.
Not the facts that pertain to my question. I suppose Maximilian Krah's party affiliation is a hint, but Bishop Fellay is Swiss. How does he see himself ? What is the precise ideological program that guides his actions and makes him ashamed of those who seek the integral Kingship of Our Lord Jesus Christ ?

I am looking for facts of that nature; I figure it goes without saying that Bishop Fellay is himself a liberal, but I am interested in what kind and why. It could be illuminating for the struggles we find ourselves in at our chapels or with straying friends.

It's hard to pin down, because his yes isn't yes, and his no isn't no, and he speaks so ambiguously, and tailors his talk to his audience.

It seems that he sees himself as a truly Traditional Catholic and a true son of Archbishop Lefebvre. If he really does, then obviously a big part of the problem is he never really understood +AL. +BW said it seemed that for +BF, as for many people at the time, the Archbishop was simply the best continuation of the Church of the 1950s.

Here is what +BF had to say about the Ideal State:

Quote

03:06 The ideal state
Just in itself the best situation is when you have the whole society which is going the same way. It also helps to unity, to peace, to everything. And of course religion is a major part in the human heart and if you are one in the religion, it helps to have this peace and I may say, well, that’s the commandment of our Lord to his Church: We have to go to all nations and teach them what our Lord said. Now, when you are in a situation which is a mixed situation, which is, let say, the reality, I would say, well, that's not the ideal but that's the situation which you are. And that's, let's say, where you have to do your job, your duty as a Christian. So you have to give this witness to the others, you must try to help them. We want everybody to have that wonderful happiness of heaven and trying to bring them to this knowledge.

Can anybody find the word "Catholic" in there? :confused1:

ETA:
Note that the Archbishop says that the " true believers, those who understand the problem and we have just helped to continue the straight and firm and the Tradition of faith" are the ones who "feared the steps I made in Rome. They told me it was dangerous and that I was wasting my time."

Quote from: Archbishop Lefebvre

Our true believers, those who understand the problem and we have just helped to continue the straight and firm and the Tradition of faith, feared the steps I made in Rome. They told me it was dangerous and that I was wasting my time. Yes, of course, I hoped until the last minute in Rome have to testify a little bit of loyalty. You can not blame me for not doing the maximum. So now, those who say to me, you must agree with Rome, I can safely say that I went even farther than I should have (Fideliter no. 79, p. 11).

PAT317 · « **Reply #31 on:** October 15, 2012, 09:09:24 AM »

Quote from: PAT317

Quote from: PereJoseph

I am morally confident that he is a liberal because of his past statements and, especially, his actions. I am just looking for something a little more concrete, like a specific ideological school or party affiliation.
I am simply looking for some information regarding his actual political beliefs.
Not the facts that pertain to my question. I suppose Maximilian Krah's party affiliation is a hint, but Bishop Fellay is Swiss. How does he see himself ? What is the precise ideological program that guides his actions and makes him ashamed of those who seek the integral Kingship of Our Lord Jesus Christ ?

I am looking for facts of that nature; I figure it goes without saying that Bishop Fellay is himself a liberal, but I am interested in what kind and why. It could be illuminating for the struggles we find ourselves in at our chapels or with straying friends.

It's hard to pin down, because his yes isn't yes, and his no isn't no, and he speaks so ambiguously, and tailors his talk to his audience.

And even when he says things, (docuмented, in print or video), he says he didn't say them.

Quote

War Aims by Fr. Chazal

The SSPX crisis stays on as long as its head, Bishop Fellay, teaches errors and allows errors to spread, thus dividing the flock. Otherwise the 20 resistance priests (as of September 2012) are guilty of dividing the flock.

So let us make a SSPX headscan. Fortunately I was able to see Bishop Fellay on September 04th , talked to him for one and a half hour, just 72 hours before his big Econe backpedalling (priests conference, 09.07.2012).

For about 20 minutes or more His Lordship rebuked me for my scandalous, destructive and revolutionary behavior and this terrible refusal to stop my activities, etc. then he asked me the reason for such pertinacity.
I replied: “Because I believe that you have a new theory on Vatican II, by which its errors, keep that Council erroneous, but are surmountable.”
I was warned by Fr. Koller: Bishop Fellay is an intelligent man; one cannot accuse him of being simply in favor of Vatican II; it is much more complicated than that. Bishop Fellay knows his public.
His Lordship then answered: “Archbishop Lefebvre thought like that at some stage, and he signed the texts of the Council” Then I think he realized he had failed to deny the accusation and started to pound the notion that he is indeed against Vatican II, that I am just persevering making him say that he likes Vatican II when the opposite is true, that he is the one who knows best what his thoughts are.
I then showed him my small collection of eight quotes of his, called “I excuse the Council” and he replied “This is not what I said… from start to finish we disagree with Rome on Vatican II and that is why the talks have failed. You base your entire thing on a false assumption of what we think (about VII).”
When he got finished I then asked candidly: “If you are indeed truly against Vatican II, why were you, my Lordship, so silent about Assisi III?” Referring to one phrase pronounced in St Nicolas du Chardonnet, he said that he made his all the condemnations of the Archbishop about Assisi. That sounded awkward and Fr. Nely rushed to the rescue, explaining how bad Assisi III really was. Not getting it, I reminded his Lordship of his resolute NO, when I was with him in Cebu, to my request for a strong and public stance against Assisi III. (He said the same to the Pfeiffer brothers at the time).

Fr. Chazal showed +F a collection of +F quotes, and +F says "This is not what I said." He told some Australian layman that the CNS interview "took him out of context."

Of course, we're way off thread topic; this might be a good topic for another thread. FWIW, Here is an Ignis thread about "Bishop Fellay's mind."

Wessex · « **Reply #32 on:** October 15, 2012, 09:55:44 AM »

I think it is true to say Bp. Williamson represents the old SSPX which Menzingen is discarding bit by bit. And it is no accident that the liberal drift towards conciliar Rome comes with new positions in the political arena. Bp. Fellay and Fr. Phluger like to be interviewed by Der Spiegel because all like to ridicule Bp. Williamson and his 'extremist' following. What is forgotten is that this 'extremist' following were principle supporters of ABL's initiative and one would hear their indictment against the modern world in sermon after sermon. Incredibly, Bp. Fellay himself would echo such things not so long ago. The new image of the SSPX must now show the Society is more accommodating and accepting of the modern world. That is why Bp. Williamson and reminders of the old SSPX have to go.

Ethelred · « **Reply #33 on:** October 15, 2012, 10:02:50 AM »

Quote from: PereJoseph

Pardon my ignorance, but has it been definitively settled that the ten days for appeal are over ?

No, the 10 days do run out on Friday.

Ferdinand · « **Reply #34 on:** October 15, 2012, 10:32:52 AM »

Stop Believing All Those Internet Rumors!
And stop making fun of my receding hairline.

John Grace · « **Reply #35 on:** October 15, 2012, 10:52:35 AM »

Quote from: Ferdinand

Stop Believing All Those Internet Rumors!
And stop making fun of my receding hairline.

This is going too far. There is no doubt Bishop Fellay is a liberal in his own dream world but I do disagree with that photograph but I see the humour in the part about the internet rumours.

Faber posted this
http://cathinfo-warning-pornography!/Ignis_Ardens/index.php?showtopic=11120&st=125

Quote

QUOTE ("Bishop Williamson; June 2012; Bristol; Conference XI")
I was on the phone last night. Fr Joe Pfeiffer from the United States rang me up, the one who gave a blockbusting sermon that’s all over the internet, like Fr Chazal’s, and he said that Fr Laisney, who is a Bishop Fellay man, was really trying to put the pressure on Fr Chazal, and one of the things that Fr Laisney blurted out in the middle of his pressure-putting was that after the General Chapter there will be a purge. I think he was quoting Fr Pfluger. Fr Pfluger is a real - how can I say? A strong man. I wanted to use the word “thug” but I can’t use the word “thug”. It’s not quite correct. Fr Pfluger is not nearly as smart as Bishop Fellay. Bishop Fellay is smart, but Fr Pfluger is not smart but he is absolutely fanaticised. These people are now fanaticised, and they are driving for their goal, and their goal is to take over the Society and to get rid of the opposition. Fr Chazal quoted Fr Pfluger, who said, “Wait until the General Chapter and then there will be a big purge.” So they’re going to get to the General Chapter, and they’re going to sail through the General Chapter with a majority, as they hope. They undoubtedly count on having a majority in their pocket, and then if they win the vote then there will be a great purge. Heads will roll afterwards. Anybody who’s in opposition will be eliminated, crushed, smashed, driven out.

God, in any case, surely wants the purification of the resistance to the apostasy of the Church, which was set up by Archbishop Lefebvre 40 years ago [...]

Few would doubt that Bishop Fellay and his gang are bad news for certain.Fr Pfluger is certainly a bad apple. They are after bringing further trouble on themselves if indeed the Bishop has been expelled.

1531 · « **Reply #36 on:** October 15, 2012, 01:02:44 PM »

Ok, now. So, Mgr W is being expelled. Hm.... So who is going to oust him out physically? By what means will BF implement his threat? I believe that our priests here in the UK are sympathetic to our Mgr W so can they not protect His Lordship? We know that he has a huge following, not just here in the UK, but around the world. My question is: is it really possible for one bishop to oust another? OK, so BF was voted in as GS, but can he really expel Mgr W? Really??? After all, as has been mentioned before, Mgr W was the first chosen of the four bishops by our founder, Mgr Lefebvre and that MUST count for something.

The next question is... will we all be 'excommunicated' by BF???? But, is that not ridiculous? A person must have done something really serious to be excommunicated, such as being a freemason, or some such thing. In any case, in today's modern church, you can be anything and still belong to 'it'. Furthermore, I am certain that BF has no authority to excommunicate anyone. He and his 'followers' (the modernist superiors) can stop any of the faithful they want from actually entering one of the SSPX churches, and even denying them the sacraments, but that is going far beyond what would happen in former days, I mean prior to VII. Oh, sad days, what has happened to our SSPX? The devil never sleeps.

Incredulous · « **Reply #37 on:** October 15, 2012, 01:10:28 PM »

Quote from: John Grace

Quote
The poor Bp Fellay is living in a world of dreams. He is a liberal. Heaven help him -- and us. God bless Bishop Williamson!

Indeed. Poor Bishop Fellay. I agree with you that he is a liberal living in his own world of dreams. May Heaven indeed help him.

Sadly, he has lost the plot. Bishop Fellay has become such a tragic figure.

Over The Rainbow

Bp. Fellay is a tragic figure similar to Captain Ahab from the novel Moby Deck.

He is obssessed with with newRome unity over truth.

He's willing to sink the SSPX and lose it all to carry-out his flawed vision.

JMacQ · « **Reply #38 on:** October 15, 2012, 01:16:01 PM »

Quote from: 1531

Ok, now. So, Mgr W is being expelled. Hm.... So who is going to oust him out physically? By what means will BF implement his threat?

Now that's a fascinating point. Could our Bishop be expelled from the organisation and yet remain in Wimbledon? After all, some non-SSPX and even some former SSPX clergy live in SSPX houses.

Capt McQuigg · « **Reply #39 on:** October 15, 2012, 01:28:54 PM »

Could all three bishops get together and expel Bishop Fellay?

Are these SSPX bishops assigned to specific regions?

Who's the bishop for the U.S.? Specifically the St. Louis chapel?

Incredulous · « **Reply #40 on:** October 15, 2012, 01:45:31 PM »

Quote from: JMacQ

Quote from: 1531
Ok, now. So, Mgr W is being expelled. Hm.... So who is going to oust him out physically? By what means will BF implement his threat?

Now that's a fascinating point. Could our Bishop be expelled from the organisation and yet remain in Wimbledon? After all, some non-SSPX and even some former SSPX clergy live in SSPX houses.

The SSPX has no problem using lawyers or the cops to evict someone.

Fr. Emily had an SSPX seminarian physically removed from a Toronto chapel
on the charge of "tresspassing" in 1998. It was based on Father Emily's naive involvemment in a Cancun beach raffle prize that turned-out to be a scandal.

Even though Bp. Fellay has a political "tin-ear" for politics, it would in his own
PR interest, to use diplomacy in getting Bp. Williamson to leave. I would bet Bp. Williamson already has his bags packed.

Ethelred · « **Reply #41 on:** October 15, 2012, 02:15:45 PM »

Quote from: Incredulous

Bp. Fellay is a tragic figure similar to Captain Ahab from the novel Moby Deck.

He is obssessed with with newRome unity over truth.

He's willing to sink the SSPX and lose it all to carry-out his flawed vision.

A very good comparison.

We need a new cartoon! :-)

... showing Bp Fellay as Captain Ahab, the Newrome-agreement (or Ratzi?) as the white whale, the Neo-SSPX as Captain Ahab's ship which sinks in the tragic end... or that like.

And the only survivor is...? The truth, or those loving the truth in the SSPX. So Bishop Williamson right at the front.

John Grace · « **Reply #42 on:** October 15, 2012, 02:43:10 PM »

Quote from: Ethelred

Quote from: Incredulous
Bp. Fellay is a tragic figure similar to Captain Ahab from the novel Moby Deck.

He is obssessed with with newRome unity over truth.

He's willing to sink the SSPX and lose it all to carry-out his flawed vision.

A very good comparison.

We need a new cartoon! :-)

... showing Bp Fellay as Captain Ahab, the Newrome-agreement (or Ratzi?) as the white whale, the Neo-SSPX as Captain Ahab's ship which sinks in the tragic end... or that like.

And the only survivor is...? The truth, or those loving the truth in the SSPX. So Bishop Williamson right at the front.

There could be a sequel to this video..
MOO!

Sadly, Bishop Fellay is in fantasy world

Fellay leads SSPX over the Rainbow

gladius_veritatis · « **Reply #43 on:** October 15, 2012, 03:07:01 PM »

While it is possible that Bp Fellay is merely deluded, an egomaniac, etc., is it not also possible that he is simply doing the job that was assigned to him by his true masters? No, I cannot prove anything, but it is unwise to ignore the possibility that he is merely controlling the opposition and always has been. For my money, it is an absolute given that those who wrought the havoc that led us into the desert also followed us there and sought to gain control of the resistance from the very beginning. If Bp Fellay is not a conscious agent, it seems to be morally certain that some of those who influence him are.

We shall see...

Ethelred · « **Reply #44 on:** October 15, 2012, 03:14:06 PM »

Quote from: gladius_veritatis

is it not also possible that he is simply doing the job that was assigned to him by his true masters?

It is possible.

Quote

We shall see...

Yes, soon.