Author Topic: Behold Williamson is Officially Expelled, Pending Appeal (Read 27140 times)

Iuvenalis · « **Reply #15 on:** October 14, 2012, 11:27:50 PM »

Quote from: Matthew

I wish there was something more concrete from +W himself, but assuming he's been expelled, I must say this is a sad day for the SSPX.

It marks another red-letter day in its ever-progressing downfall.

I think it is fairly concrete: The letter he was sent said (among other things) he had 10 days to shutdown his website. As of right now, it's still up, and today marks the tenth day.

Neil Obstat · « **Reply #16 on:** October 14, 2012, 11:37:04 PM »

Quote from: Iuvenalis

Quote from: Matthew
I wish there was something more concrete from +W himself, but assuming he's been expelled, I must say this is a sad day for the SSPX.

It marks another red-letter day in its ever-progressing downfall.

I think it is fairly concrete: The letter he was sent said (among other things) he had 10 days to shutdown his website. As of right now, it's still up, and today marks the tenth day.

It's a lie. If he were to comply, then there would be something else he has to do,
or else. No more EC's for one! This isn't Catholic, it's Stalinist. It's Fidel Castro,
it's Hugo Chavez, it's Idi Amin. It's Communism.

Iuvenalis · « **Reply #17 on:** October 14, 2012, 11:44:23 PM »

Quote from: Neil Obstat

Quote from: Iuvenalis
Quote from: Matthew
I wish there was something more concrete from +W himself, but assuming he's been expelled, I must say this is a sad day for the SSPX.

It marks another red-letter day in its ever-progressing downfall.

I think it is fairly concrete: The letter he was sent said (among other things) he had 10 days to shutdown his website. As of right now, it's still up, and today marks the tenth day.

It's a lie. If he were to comply, then there would be something else he has to do,
or else. No more EC's for one! This isn't Catholic, it's Stalinist. It's Fidel Castro,
it's Hugo Chavez, it's Idi Amin. It's Communism.

I'm just saying, based on the terms laid down in the letter, as evidenced by one objective measure (his website), he is most certainly out.

Francisco · « **Reply #18 on:** October 15, 2012, 01:18:47 AM »

There's no point in either Bp Williamson or anyone else staying with the SSPX if it has strayed from the path of defending the remnant Church.
Further, this decision of Bp Fellay may have been made more urgent in view of the forthcoming re-trial of BpW in Germany.

Ethelred · « **Reply #19 on:** October 15, 2012, 01:57:34 AM »

Quote from: Matthew

I wish there was something more concrete from +W himself, but assuming...

Is there an official docuмent yet? Because a good source says that the 10 days do not run out today but on (the next) Friday.

However, Bp Fellay wants Bishop Williamson out of the Society at any price. It looks like he may seem to succeed.

The poor Bp Fellay is living in a world of dreams. He is a liberal. Heaven help him -- and us. God bless Bishop Williamson!

JMacQ · « **Reply #20 on:** October 15, 2012, 04:13:06 AM »

What I was told by my priest is that His Excellency is already expelled. The ten days are given so that he can appeal if he wants to.

What a mockery of justice.

I hope the docuмent of expulsion is made public.

If a bishop can be treated this way, nobody is safe.

Marion · « **Reply #21 on:** October 15, 2012, 05:24:20 AM »

Quote from: 1st Mansion Tenant

To what address could cards be sent to the Bishop?

info@dinoscopus.org

John Grace · « **Reply #22 on:** October 15, 2012, 06:48:54 AM »

Quote

The poor Bp Fellay is living in a world of dreams. He is a liberal. Heaven help him -- and us. God bless Bishop Williamson!

Indeed. Poor Bishop Fellay. I agree with you that he is a liberal living in his own world of dreams. May Heaven indeed help him.

Sadly, he has lost the plot. Bishop Fellay has become such a tragic figure.

Over The Rainbow

PereJoseph · « **Reply #23 on:** October 15, 2012, 08:02:00 AM »

Pardon my ignorance, but has it been definitively settled that the ten days for appeal are over ?

PereJoseph · « **Reply #24 on:** October 15, 2012, 08:04:05 AM »

Quote from: Ethelred

Quote from: Matthew
The poor Bp Fellay is living in a world of dreams. He is a liberal. Heaven help him -- and us. God bless Bishop Williamson!

I would be interested in more information regarding this so that we can understand what signs to look out for in the near future. I have read or heard several references to Bishop Fellay having liberal political beliefs -- "He is not one of us." He acts like this is very much the case. Indeed, look at his friends and his background -- it isn't too much of a stretch to suspect him of being a sort of mid-XXth century Christian Democrat, a reconciler who feels uncomfortable around integral Catholics and counter-revolutionaries. I remember being surprised to read Bishop Fellay say something about the problem with hard-right extremism and cօռspιʀαcιҽs and those kinds of mentalities, etc., in SSPX parishes a few years ago, how it needed to be rooted out and had no future or something. I found the statement incredibly strange, given what we know of the Archbishop and his priests, not to mention the several centuries-old tradition of resistance to the Revolution out of which the SSPX naturally sprung in the first place. Does anybody have some more concrete information about Bishop Fellay's alleged (and apparent) liberalism ? I suppose he would be careful to make few public statements about this, but I only seek facts here rather than mere speculation or third-hand information.

John Grace · « **Reply #25 on:** October 15, 2012, 08:19:16 AM »

Quote from: PereJoseph

Quote from: Ethelred
Quote from: Matthew
The poor Bp Fellay is living in a world of dreams. He is a liberal. Heaven help him -- and us. God bless Bishop Williamson!

I would be interested in more information regarding this so that we can understand what signs to look out for in the near future. I have read or heard several references to Bishop Fellay having liberal political beliefs -- "He is not one of us." He acts like this is very much the case. Indeed, look at his friends and his background -- it isn't too much of a stretch to suspect him of being a sort of mid-XXth century Christian Democrat, a reconciler who feels uncomfortable around integral Catholics and counter-revolutionaries. I remember being surprised to read Bishop Fellay say something about the problem with hard-right extremism and cօռspιʀαcιҽs and those kinds of mentalities, etc., in SSPX parishes a few years ago, how it needed to be rooted out and had no future or something. I found the statement incredibly strange, given what we know of the Archbishop and his priests, not to mention the several centuries-old tradition of resistance to the Revolution out of which the SSPX naturally sprung in the first place. Does anybody have some more concrete information about Bishop Fellay's alleged (and apparent) liberalism ? I suppose he would be careful to make few public statements about this, but I only seek facts here rather than mere speculation or third-hand information.

With respect to you PereJoseph, this is remarkable. I remember a SSPX priest not being able to answer the question "Would Bishop Fellay pray for the conversion of the Jews?" Very revealing in itself.

Quote

I found the statement incredibly strange

Why strange? After all, we are dealing with Bishop Fellay. Do you expect something differently from him?

Quote

Does anybody have some more concrete information about Bishop Fellay's alleged (and apparent) liberalism ?

There is nothing alleged about his liberalism. There is plenty of concrete information available. It's just some people tend to ignore facts.

Are some people not past the "Did Bishop Fellay really say this" stage? It beggars belief.

Quote

but I only seek facts here rather than mere speculation

Facts have presented time and time again.

PAT317 · « **Reply #26 on:** October 15, 2012, 08:31:00 AM »

Quote from: PereJoseph

Quote from: Ethelred
Quote from: Matthew
The poor Bp Fellay is living in a world of dreams. He is a liberal. Heaven help him -- and us. God bless Bishop Williamson!

a reconciler who feels uncomfortable around integral Catholics and counter-revolutionaries. I remember being surprised to read Bishop Fellay say something about the problem with hard-right extremism and cօռspιʀαcιҽs and those kinds of mentalities, etc., in SSPX parishes a few years ago, how it needed to be rooted out and had no future or something. I found the statement incredibly strange, given what we know of the Archbishop and his priests, not to mention the several centuries-old tradition of resistance to the Revolution out of which the SSPX naturally sprung in the first place.

"We have an appeal for extremists, who we don't even want," says Fellay

Quote from: Archbishop Lefebvre

Ours an ancient struggle

Well, these texts are astounding, quite astounding! I shall quote you a few texts shortly. It is incredible. In the last few weeks (since I am now unemployed!) I have been spending a little time re-reading the book by Emmanuel Barbier on Liberal Catholicism. And it is striking to see how our fight now is exactly the same fight as was being fought then by the great Catholics of the 19th century, in the wake of the French Revolution, and by the Popes, Pius VI, Pius VII, Pius VIII, Gregory XVI, Pius IX, Leo XIII, and so on, Pius X, down to Pius XII. Their fight is summed up in the encyclical Quanta Cura with the Syllabus of Pius IX, and Pascendi Dominici Gregis of Pius X. There are the two great docuмents, sensational and shocking in their day, laying out the Church's teaching in face of the modern errors, the errors appearing in the course of the Revolution, especially in the Declaration of the Rights of Man. This is the fight we are in the middle of today. Exactly the same fight.

There are those who are for the Syllabus and Pascendi, and there are those who are against. It is simple. It is clear. Those who are against are adopting the principles of the French Revolution, the modern errors. Those who are for the Syllabus and Pascendi remain within the true Faith, within Catholic doctrine. Now you know very well that Cardinal Ratzinger has said that as far as he is concerned Vatican II is "an anti-Syllabus". Therewith the Cardinal placed himself clearly amongst those who are against the Syllabus. If then he is against the Syllabus, he is adopting the principles of the Revolution. Besides, he goes on to say quite clearly, "Indeed we have now absorbed into Church teaching, and the Church has opened herself up to, principles which are not hers but which come from modern society," i.e., as everyone understands, the principles of 1789, the Rights of Man.

We stand exactly where Cardinal Pie, Bishop Freppel, Louis Vueillot stood, and Deputy Keller in Alsace, Cardinal Mermillod in Switzerland, who fought the good fight together with the great majority of the then bishops. At that time they had the good fortune to have the large majority of the bishops on their side. Bishop Dupanloup and the few bishops in France who followed Bishop Dupanloup were the odd ones out. The few bishops in Germany, the few in Italy, who were openly opposed to the Syllabus, and in effect opposed to Pius IX, they were the exception rather than the rule. But obviously there were the forces of the Revolution, the heirs of the Revolution, and there was the hand reached out by Dupanloup, Montalembert, Lamennais and others, who offered their hand to the Revolution and who never wanted to invoke the rights of God against the rights of man - "We ask only for the rights of every man, the rights shared by everyone, shared by all men, shared by all religions, not the rights of God," said these Liberals.

John Grace · « **Reply #27 on:** October 15, 2012, 08:37:32 AM »

It's important to point out the Peter Wensierski connection to the Menzingen Lawyer. Wensierski and Steffen Winter wrote the article that PAT317 has just posted.This is really old news.In the photograph, you see Peter Wensierski with Krah.

PereJoseph · « **Reply #28 on:** October 15, 2012, 08:38:09 AM »

Quote from: John Grace

With respect to you PereJoseph, this is remarkable. I remember a SSPX priest not being able to answer the question "Would Bishop Fellay pray for the conversion of the Jews?" Very revealing in itself.

I am morally confident that he is a liberal because of his past statements and, especially, his actions. I am just looking for something a little more concrete, like a specific ideological school or party affiliation.

Quote

Quote
I found the statement incredibly strange

Why strange? After all, we are dealing with Bishop Fellay. Do you expect something differently from him?

Several years ago, when I read the comment, I did expect something different. At that time, I was still living under the naïve impression that the SSPX was a monolithic bloc of anti-liberal anti-Americanist anti-democratic counter-revolutionary Catholics in the tradition of the French Legitimists, the Zouaves, the Carlists, and the various XXth-century Catholic régimes. That is to say, when I first started going to SSPX chapels, I was full of books by the Archbishop and was taken in by the Society's self-advertisement. It came as quite a shock to me when this picture was fractured and contradicted after the Swedish interview affair.

Quote

There is nothing alleged about his liberalism. There is plenty of concrete information available. It's just some people tend to ignore facts.

Hmm, I must have given the wrong impression in my post. Don't worry, it seems to be a matter of fact to me that Bishop Fellay is a liberal who is no friend of Catholic Tradition and is going to formally defect from the true Faith to join up with Fr Josef Ratzinger, who himself is an antichrist.

Quote

Are some people not past the "Did Bishop Fellay really say this" stage? It beggars belief.

I am simply looking for some information regarding his actual political beliefs.

Quote

Facts have presented time and time again.

Not the facts that pertain to my question. I suppose Maximilian Krah's party affiliation is a hint, but Bishop Fellay is Swiss. How does he see himself ? What is the precise ideological program that guides his actions and makes him ashamed of those who seek the integral Kingship of Our Lord Jesus Christ ?

I am looking for facts of that nature; I figure it goes without saying that Bishop Fellay is himself a liberal, but I am interested in what kind and why. It could be illuminating for the struggles we find ourselves in at our chapels or with straying friends. I am sorry if the apparently tepid tone of my above post was discouraging; I should have been more thoughtful. I did not get as much sleep as would have been ideal last night.

PereJoseph · « **Reply #29 on:** October 15, 2012, 08:51:56 AM »

Quote from: PAT317

Quote from: PereJoseph
Quote from: Ethelred
Quote from: Matthew
The poor Bp Fellay is living in a world of dreams. He is a liberal. Heaven help him -- and us. God bless Bishop Williamson!

a reconciler who feels uncomfortable around integral Catholics and counter-revolutionaries. I remember being surprised to read Bishop Fellay say something about the problem with hard-right extremism and cօռspιʀαcιҽs and those kinds of mentalities, etc., in SSPX parishes a few years ago, how it needed to be rooted out and had no future or something. I found the statement incredibly strange, given what we know of the Archbishop and his priests, not to mention the several centuries-old tradition of resistance to the Revolution out of which the SSPX naturally sprung in the first place.

"We have an appeal for extremists, who we don't even want," says Fellay

Thank you. I vaguely remember this article, but I guess I needed my memory refreshed. So, are the Fellay/Pfluger clique Maritainistes, fans of Otto von Habsburg's pan-Europeanism, do they consider themselves humanists of some fashion or another, perhaps neo-liberal devotées of the School of Salamanca ? It would be helpful to find texts we could consult to better understand their frame of mind. For instance, what is their position in regard to women in University and the workplace. What, precisely, would the world look like if everything that Bishop Fellay and Fr Pfluger hoped would happen in the next fifty to one hundred years actually did happen ? We need to find their playbook so that they cannot present their bad faith as benign and exploit the naïve credulity inspired by false charity that they expect from everybody.