AVENGING GOD?

The latest horrible onslaught let loose against the virtually defenceless Palestinians in Gaza can raise in many people’s minds an obstacle to the true worship of the true God, because it is well known that many of today’s Israelis claim that they have from the Old Testament a God-given right to take all the land occupied by the Palestinians, by force if necessary. A reasonable person might ask two questions: what kind of a God can even remotely be pulled in to ‘justify’ such barbarous cruelty, together with such utter contempt for any world opinion condemning that barbarity? And what kind of a ‘Chosen People’ are these? The answer to both questions turns around Our Lord Jesus Christ, around whom of course all human history turns.

The Old Testament tells the story of mankind before Christ, especially the story of the Israelites, the people that God chose out from the rest of the human race to act as the cradle for the coming down from Heaven of the Incarnate God, Jesus Christ. About a thousand years after Adam, mankind had grown so corrupt that God had to wash it out and start again with the eight souls saved on Noah’s Ark. About another thousand years later, mankind is again so corrupt that God has to pull Abraham out of the degenerate city Ur to be the founder of a race that must stay clear of all surrounding human contamination in order to be clean enough to act as that cradle. Here is the origin of that racial exclusivity observable in Jєωs ever since. It began with God, but it has fallen into the hands of men.

The Jєωs were indeed once, for the sake of Jesus Christ, the Chosen People. Thus St Thomas Aquinas has a tremendous article in his Summa Theologiae where he shows how every single detail in the furnishing of the Israelites’ exclusive Temple in Jerusalem pointed forward to Jesus Christ (Ia IIae, 102, 4). However, to clear the Promised Land for the Israelites to take over, there is no question that Almighty God gave them more than once the command to exterminate utterly the pagans occupying the land, and He punished King Saul severely for not observing this command to the letter (I Sam XV). What could justify such a command?

It is the same as what explains God’s exterminating all mankind (except eight souls) in Noah’s time. Firstly men’s sins. God creates men for Heaven, they choose sin that deserves Hell. For indeed sin offends God first of all. So the sense of God and the sense of sin get lost together, as all around us today. A godless generation like ours cannot possibly understand the justice of God. Secondly, God’s mercy, which goes hand in hand with His justice, and is today equally misunderstood. But given the reality of Hell, is it not a mercy of God if he cuts men off so that they can repent before they die, or at least be stopped from sinning so as not to deserve to go any deeper in Hell?

That is how it will have been with the pagan enemies of the Israelites between Abraham and Jesus Christ. To read the Old Testament is to see how often the Israelites were tempted to abandon the true God and to worship devils by the pagans all around them. As the Curé of Ars once said, ‘Get rid of the priest, and within 25 years men will be worshipping beasts.’ It is to the eternal credit of the Israelites that they did succeed in providing the cradle for the Messiah, for instance St Joachim and St Anne, especially their child, the Blessed Virgin Mary, the twelve Apostles and all other good Israelites who helped to launch their Messiah’s Catholic Church. For today’s Israelis see next week.

For too long I have deliberately kept well clear of all this 'Resistance' propaganda. But today, on this 'SSPX Resistance' section I find two threads that need some balance. So now let me put up once again something I just received from Bishop Williamson, a bishop I have met and enjoyed a couple of hours of poetry with some time ago when he supported the unity of the SSPX wherein he was made a bishop.

'The latest horrible onslaught let loose against the virtually defenseless Palestinians in Gaza can raise in many people’s minds an obstacle to the true worship of the true God, because it is well known that many of today’s Israelis claim that they have from the Old Testament a God-given right to take all the land occupied by the Palestinians, by force if necessary. A reasonable person might ask two questions: what kind of a God can even remotely be pulled in to ‘justify’ such barbarous cruelty, together with such utter contempt for any world opinion condemning that barbarity? And what kind of a ‘Chosen People’ are these? The answer to both questions turns around Our Lord Jesus Christ, around whom of course all human history turns.'

Having listened to, and read all the one-sided propaganda in and on the secular media, I see the good bishop has now dragged the ongoing conflict between Israel and the Muslims of Palestine into a theology war against 'today’s Israelis.'

Worldwide the inhumanity of Hamas has managed to win a propaganda war by way of its sacrificing of their own children.

I am aware of the history of the area, and a prophesy that the Jєωs will return to their original homeland, before being converted to Christ before the end of the world. So Israel will survive to convert, take God's word on that.

This conflict began when five Israeli teenagers were captured and executed. +W never mentioned that, nor condemned that publically. Hamas know that the Israelis - whom they have publicly vowed to wipe off the face of the Earth, to the last Jєω - will not, cannot, stand by and allow that to happen. Hamas know, that by placing their rocket launchers among their own people, the Israelis will have to kill civilians in order to stop rockets begin that Jєωιѕн wipe-out Hamas have threatened. But more that that, they know the Israelis will protect their own even if civilians get killed while doing so. It is their only way to stop the rockets. the idea may be horrible to you safe at home, but if you lived in an Israeli surburb it is better than allowing oneself being blown up. Having seen their race slaughtered when they were peaceful, who could blame them saying that is not going to happen again, no matter what.

At the bottom of the Hamas ideology is that Islam itself is a religion that dominated by force if necessary. That is their faith. Throughout Islamic countries, Christians are always under threat. Note however when Christians around the world are slaughtered - simply for being Christian - there is nothing like the 'publicity' given to that slaughter as there is to this slaughter of Palestinians.

Now we all know about Jєωιѕн Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ and communism, and their money trying to bring about that One-World-Order. We all know it was the Jєωs who executed Christ. The irony of it is that therefore it was in effect the Jєωs who brought about the death of Christ and by so doing opened up the gates of heaven to all of us.
Now some may be able to place all this on Israel and its Jєωιѕн people today, but I do not, will not. Not every Jєω in Israel is plotting this One-World-Order. Most are no different to citizens in any country, except that they are under threat of extinction every day of their lives.

The present slaughter of Palestinians is a result of a combination of two deliberate acts, one to attain a propaganda victory for Hamas, and the other by the Israeli need for self-preservation. Both sides are EQUALLY responsible for the killings.

Had the Israelis not got their rocket defenses Jєωιѕн children would be slaughtered by Hamas rockets aimed at israeli towns and cities. Unlike Hamas, the Jєωs protect their fellow citizens, but there is no propaganda victories in this. Only the side who doesn't give a damn about their own and deliberately get them slaughtered get the propaganda victory, all those dead bodies.

Now for years I have defended +W's belief that less than 6 million Jєωs died in the German death camps. I could not believe the West would even put people in prison for questioning this. But in this case the Jєωs won the propaganda war. I never suspected +w was an αnтι-ѕємιтє.

But now, with this one sided opinion, I have reason to consider that he is. Not only that but he basis his views on theology. The day Christian theology is based on propaganda is the day I will look for another source for truth.

And as for you Neil, dragging in Bishop Fellay and the SSPX into this propaganda war is not something I expected from an intelligent person like you. What in God's name has +F got to do with it? If I am correct you are American, living in a land stolen over the dead bodies of the native Indians. Then there are the Australians, their land taken over from their natives too. And God knows how many others now occupying lands taken from their original owners and all now crying for the Jєωs to hand back Israel to their Muslim conquerors.

 
 

Dear cassini,

I am stunned, that an informed Catholic could be so distortedly misinformed about such serious matters regarding our times.

Firstly, there would be no Hamas but, for the ongoing 60 year theft and murder perpetrated upon these folks by a group of European thugs who are endangering the whole of God's earthly creation with their bizzare thinking and animalistic drives.

Secondly, your comments sound as though they  were lifted directly  from the pages of the New York Times, and yet you find this reason enough to criticize Neil for giving his opinion about the contrast of the two Bishop's makeup?

What Bishop Williamson is speaking of is not "resistance propaganda", it is simply an application of Christian thinking to the movement of Satan's children in our own times.

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Dear cassini, do you know what an "αnтι-ѕємιтє" is?

I never suspected +w was an αnтι-ѕємιтє.

But now, with this one sided opinion, I have reason to consider that he is. Not only that but he basis [sic] his views on theology. The day Christian theology is based on propaganda is the day I will look for another source for truth.

If you rely on the NYT MSM version, you'll never figure it out.  So let me help you:

You never suspected +W was someone who does things the Jєωs don't like and says things that Zionists want to be suppressed.  But now, with this EC's 'one-sided' opinion (is it somehow abnormal for any opinion to be 'one-sided'?), you say you have reason to consider that he really does say things the Jєωs don't want to hear or have heard by others whom they want to control.  Not only that, but he bases his views on theology (is that a crime too?).  Is the day propaganda becomes based on Christian theology, the day you will look for another source for truth, other than the NYT/MSM, that is?

.

Worldwide the inhumanity of Hamas has managed to win a propaganda war by way of its sacrificing of their own children.

Now we are talking about one-side propaganda!

I am aware of the history of the area […]

This conflict began when five Israeli teenagers were captured and executed.

You are aware of the history of the area and then say the conflict began when five israeli teenagers were captured and executed?

No.  The conflict began when Israel invaded Palestine.  That's what this conflict is about.

Now we all know about Jєωιѕн Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ and communism, and their money trying to bring about that One-World-Order. We all know it was the Jєωs who executed Christ. The irony of it is that therefore it was in effect the Jєωs who brought about the death of Christ and by so doing opened up the gates of heaven to all of us.

Are you suggesting that we should thank the Jєωs for having executed Our Lord Jesus Christ?

Dear cassini,

I am stunned, that an informed Catholic could be so distortedly misinformed about such serious matters regarding our times.

Firstly, there would be no Hamas but, for the ongoing 60 year theft and murder perpetrated upon these folks by a group of European thugs who are endangering the whole of God's earthly creation with their bizzare thinking and animalistic drives.

Secondly, your comments sound as though they  were lifted directly  from the pages of the New York Times, and yet you find this reason enough to criticize Neil for giving his opinion about the contrast of the two Bishop's makeup?

What Bishop Williamson is speaking of is not "resistance propaganda", it is simply an application of Christian thinking to the movement of Satan's children in our own times.

Dear J. Paul,

The fact is that there is a Hamas, the reason for their existence does not excuse their behaviour. As for thugs, how far back are we allowed to go, for I once remember God giving the Jєωs a promised land filled with milk and honey. Some thugs must have taken it off them don't you think? The European thugs who gave Isreal to the Jєωs earlier invaded and took America, Australia, Canada etc, I said, but if the Indians, Aborigines and eskimos started to behave like Hamas do, would you consider that a defensible reason for it? And please do not tell me Hamas are normal freedom fighters. Hamas are extremest Muslims, sometimes condemned by moderate Muslims, and as can be witnessed in other Islamic countries, thesde extremists kill each other at the drop of a hat. ISIS is another crowd who are 'freedom fighters' and they make Hamas look moderate when sacrificing their own people for propaganda purposes.

I live in Ireland so do not read the New York Times. On this side of the world the newspapers are full of pro-Palistinian propaganda. In return I could say your comments sound like they are lifted directly out of the pages of the Irish Times. I consider all newspapers to be in the hands of the antichrists, even Catholic ones now. I have my own opinions based on the facts and my Catholic faith for judgement. And in my opinion I thought Neil had no legitimate reason to bring in Bishop Fellay into this matter.

I did not say Bishop Williamson wrote this as an exercise in 'resistance propaganda,' I said Neil did that. I say, and say again, Bishop Williamson's opinion in his letter is based on propaganda, taking one side as the bad guys and the other side as the good guys in this slaughter, and using Catholic theology to condone his choice. In a war like this both guys are bad guys. The difference is that Hamas have a choice in their human shield tacticts, the Jєωs do not, well they could chose ѕυιcιdє.  
It is now clear to me Bishop Williamson's choice of propaganda is here based on some problem he has with the Jєωs. That in my book is not Christian. He could of course have condemned the war itself and thus reflect real Cathgolic theology.
He has lost a lot of credibility in my eys now.

cassini:

I am aware of the history of the area, and a prophesy that the Jєωs will return to their original homeland, before being converted to Christ before the end of the world. So Israel will survive to convert, take God's word on that.

I'd love to hear some scripture and verse corroborating this theory of yours.   the return of the Jєωs to their "original homeland, (sic) before being converted to Christ," has no scriptural basis at all, in my reading of the Bible anyway.   Israel is a sh---y little country descended chiefly from a race of Turkic nomads who pretend to be real Jєωs, but are not. (Apoc. 2:9; Apoc. 3:9)  Palestine will never be a "homeland" for the Jєωs again under an entirely abrogated Old Covenant.  And most certainly, Palestine will not be a "homeland"  for a bunch of East European тαℓмυdic imposters.  That covenant shan't ever be renewed.  So any alleged provisions in the OT for their return are null and void.  There must, of course, be a remnant of real Jєωs descended from Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.  But I believe they will be few in number, and they will have already been converted to Christ.
I don't think the average SSPX priest has a clue about these things.  The superior general, Bp Fellay, certainly does not.  Either that, or he's afraid to admit or talk about what he knows to be true about the modern judaics.  Bp. Wiliamson has the courage to express the truth on this matter.  Bp. Fellay does not, IMHO.

Quote from: cassini

Worldwide the inhumanity of Hamas has managed to win a propaganda war by way of its sacrificing of their own children.

Now we are talking about one-side propaganda!

Quote from: cassini

I am aware of the history of the area […]

This conflict began when five Israeli teenagers were captured and executed.

You are aware of the history of the area and then say the conflict began when five israeli teenagers were captured and executed?

No.  The conflict began when Israel invaded Palestine.  That's what this conflict is about.

Quote from: cassini

Now we all know about Jєωιѕн Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ and communism, and their money trying to bring about that One-World-Order. We all know it was the Jєωs who executed Christ. The irony of it is that therefore it was in effect the Jєωs who brought about the death of Christ and by so doing opened up the gates of heaven to all of us.

Are you suggesting that we should thank the Jєωs for having executed Our Lord Jesus Christ?

Your next Adolphus. Unfortunately I am unable to box words like you do, so will answer in chronological order.

There are two sets of propaganda, always, in every conflict. I have pondered on both. I am certain Hamas are more evil in their tactics than the Israelis.
There is no doubt they place their rocket launchers in built up areas, especially near schools and safe houses. They know exactly what will happen to the people living in the areas when the Israelis respond to their rocket attacks. Were they to go into the desert away from their people whom they represent, far fewer would be killed.
When their children are killed that is their propaganda weapon.

The Isrealis say either they destroy these rocket launching sites and amo-dumps where they are or their own Jєωιѕн civilians will be blown up by the Hamas rockets. But they have no choice in the positions of the rocket launchers. That is their propaganda.

Now if one were neutral and abhored killing, especially the killing of ordinary people and children, as every Catholic is expected to be, it cannot be denied that the Hamas tactic is most evil. That is my position.

I made it quite clear in my initial post that THIS conflict began when five Jєωιѕн teenagers were captured and executed. THIS conflict, this latest tit-for-tat killing.
Do not try to base it on history, for we can both go back with that tit-for tat. I was alive when the Islamic states attacked Isreal in the 1950s, and that could be a start if you want to play that who began the war game.

'Are you suggesting that we should thank the Jєωs for having executed Our Lord Jesus Christ?'

Now there is a question and a half. We could start up a new thread with that one. Where would we all be without the Jєωs, heaven closed and all lost? If ever there was a mystery, here is one of the biggest.