Author Topic: Authority Crippled II (Read 14740 times)

Machabees · « **Reply #15 on:** June 28, 2013, 10:54:00 PM »

Quote from: Zeitun

They want him to lead but they won't follow his instructions.

Zeitun,

You know better than this. You were very involved in the earlier discussions. Are you converting back over to non-belief again?

See: http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php/Eleison-Comments-307-Authority-Crippled

Machabees · « **Reply #16 on:** June 28, 2013, 10:56:03 PM »

Quote from: Mithrandylan

What would you have him do, Machabees?

All of this has been discussed already.

See: http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php/Eleison-Comments-307-Authority-Crippled

Machabees · « **Reply #17 on:** June 28, 2013, 11:22:39 PM »

This "Authority Crippled 1, 2, 3, 4, ..., and so on", will continue to be a crisis of AUTHORITY, until a Catholic Bishop in the world stands up to lead.

It is as simple as that.

The Bishops of Vatican II had stopped doing so.

Bishop Fellay, with the other two Bishops, have stopped doing so.

And now Bishop Williamson, again, has stated he does not want to lead. This doesn't mean that he doesn't know what the problem is, it just means that he does not want to lead.

There were many Prophets chosen by God in the Old Testament with the same disposition; like Jonas. Until they were "encouraged" to do God's will, they were mentally anguished, until they had fulfilled what they were ordained to do.

God made a Hierarchy in the Catholic Church of only Bishops to lead the sheep and fight to the wolf head on with the Miter and the Crosier.

The crisis of AUTHORITY will not resolve without a Bishop in the world to lead.

Archbishop Lefebvre, as a Bishop, responded. His glory for doing so is rewarded.

The Church still suffers in the whole world; who will stand up to lead in God's Church?

magdalena · « **Reply #18 on:** June 28, 2013, 11:25:30 PM »

That poor, "valiant participant in today's Catholic Resistance" asking +Williamson to put himself "at the head of it". She undoubtedly spent some valuable time trying to convince him of our needs. Perhaps he puts some hope in this latest development in the SSPX? If so, +Fellay owes him. Will he do it? My bets are that he won't.

s2srea · « **Reply #19 on:** June 28, 2013, 11:27:06 PM »

Quote from: Machabees

This "Authority Crippled 1, 2, 3, 4, ..., and so on", will continue to be a crisis of AUTHORITY, until a Catholic Bishop in the world stands up to lead.

It is as simple as that.

The Bishops of Vatican II had stopped doing so.

Bishop Fellay, with the other two Bishops, have stopped doing so.

And now Bishop Williamson, again, has stated he does not want to lead. This doesn't mean that he doesn't know what the problem is, it just means that he does not want to lead.

There were many Prophets chosen by God in the Old Testament with the same disposition; like Jonas. Until they were "encouraged" to do God's will, they were mentally anguished, until they had fulfilled what they were ordained to do.

God made a Hierarchy in the Catholic Church of only Bishops to lead the sheep and fight to the wolf head on with the Miter and the Crosier.

The crisis of AUTHORITY will not resolve without a Bishop in the world to lead.

Archbishop Lefebvre, as a Bishop, responded. His glory for doing so is rewarded.

The Church still suffers in the whole world; who will stand up to lead in God's Church?

I'm sorry, but in my opinion, you're seeing things through human eyes; the good bishop is seeing them through Our Blessed Lord and Savior's.

Machabees · « **Reply #20 on:** June 28, 2013, 11:35:54 PM »

Quote from: s2srea

Quote from: Machabees
This "Authority Crippled 1, 2, 3, 4, ..., and so on", will continue to be a crisis of AUTHORITY, until a Catholic Bishop in the world stands up to lead.

It is as simple as that.

The Bishops of Vatican II had stopped doing so.

Bishop Fellay, with the other two Bishops, have stopped doing so.

And now Bishop Williamson, again, has stated he does not want to lead. This doesn't mean that he doesn't know what the problem is, it just means that he does not want to lead.

There were many Prophets chosen by God in the Old Testament with the same disposition; like Jonas. Until they were "encouraged" to do God's will, they were mentally anguished, until they had fulfilled what they were ordained to do.

God made a Hierarchy in the Catholic Church of only Bishops to lead the sheep and fight to the wolf head on with the Miter and the Crosier.

The crisis of AUTHORITY will not resolve without a Bishop in the world to lead.

Archbishop Lefebvre, as a Bishop, responded. His glory for doing so is rewarded.

The Church still suffers in the whole world; who will stand up to lead in God's Church?

I'm sorry, but in my opinion, you're seeing things through human eyes; the good bishop is seeing them through Our Blessed Lord and Savior's.

Then let him act accordingly...

We need to learn what "duty of state" means.

Re-read the story of Jonas again. Did the Prophet Jonas really see things "through Our Blessed Lord and Savior's", or did he see things through "human eyes"?

wallflower · « **Reply #21 on:** June 28, 2013, 11:36:14 PM »

Quote from: Machabees

I did not say that he is doing “nothing” as a Bishop. Read it again. I have repeated what he has stated: As a Bishop, he does not want to lead. Which means, he wants as a Catholic Bishop to "sit back" his Miter and His Crosier.

I did read it and I read that a bishop who is leading by example, preaching, teaching and conferring the sacraments is "sitting back". Sure he may not be leading in the way that you wish (not yet anyway) but it doesn't mean he isn't leading.

I don't think it is required that a bishop head up an organization so I don't think it's fair to say he is failing as a bishop if he doesn't do so, even under these circuмstances and maybe especially under these circuмstances. You want SSPX 2.0 so it can be infiltrated again?

At the very least I see him asking for time to discern and I really don't think it's too much to ask. It's all the more to our benefit that he not be rash.

magdalena · « **Reply #22 on:** June 28, 2013, 11:38:49 PM »

Quote from: Machabees

This "Authority Crippled 1, 2, 3, 4, ..., and so on", will continue to be a crisis of AUTHORITY, until a Catholic Bishop in the world stands up to lead.

It is as simple as that.

The Bishops of Vatican II had stopped doing so.

Bishop Fellay, with the other two Bishops, have stopped doing so.

And now Bishop Williamson, again, has stated he does not want to lead. This doesn't mean that he doesn't know what the problem is, it just means that he does not want to lead.

There were many Prophets chosen by God in the Old Testament with the same disposition; like Jonas. Until they were "encouraged" to do God's will, they were mentally anguished, until they had fulfilled what they were ordained to do.

God made a Hierarchy in the Catholic Church of only Bishops to lead the sheep and fight to the wolf head on with the Miter and the Crosier.

The crisis of AUTHORITY will not resolve without a Bishop in the world to lead.

Archbishop Lefebvre, as a Bishop, responded. His glory for doing so is rewarded.

The Church still suffers in the whole world; who will stand up to lead in God's Church?

Saint Athanasius, pray for us.

s2srea · « **Reply #23 on:** June 28, 2013, 11:42:58 PM »

Quote from: Machabees

Quote from: s2srea

I'm sorry, but in my opinion, you're seeing things through human eyes; the good bishop is seeing them through Our Blessed Lord and Savior's.

Then let him act accordingly...

We need to learn what "duty of state" means.

Re-read the story of Jonas again. Did the Prophet Jonas really see things "through Our Blessed Lord and Savior's", or did he see things through "human eyes"?

I will try to. But in the meantime: Jonas wasn't dealing with a Church, hierarchy, authority and jurisdiction as it has been established for the past 2000 years, but Bishop Williamson is.

I suppose it comes down to the fact that I don't think your accusation that Bishop Williamson is unwilling to lead holds water; he's shown us too much which proves otherwise.

Machabees · « **Reply #24 on:** June 29, 2013, 01:11:09 AM »

Quote from: s2srea

Quote from: Machabees
Quote from: s2srea

I'm sorry, but in my opinion, you're seeing things through human eyes; the good bishop is seeing them through Our Blessed Lord and Savior's.

Then let him act accordingly...

We need to learn what "duty of state" means.

Re-read the story of Jonas again. Did the Prophet Jonas really see things "through Our Blessed Lord and Savior's", or did he see things through "human eyes"?

I will try to. But in the meantime: Jonas wasn't dealing with a Church, hierarchy, authority and jurisdiction as it has been established for the past 2000 years, but Bishop Williamson is.

Regardless...God's grace is proportional to the needs; which gives Bishop Williamson a beautiful opportunity to do so.

Quote from: s2srea

I suppose it comes down to the fact that I don't think your accusation that Bishop Williamson is unwilling to lead holds water; he's shown us too much which proves otherwise.

It is not my "accusation", his own "Authority Crippled 1 and 2" state it so.

Machabees · « **Reply #25 on:** June 29, 2013, 01:27:58 AM »

Quote from: wallflower

Quote from: Machabees
I did not say that he is doing “nothing” as a Bishop. Read it again. I have repeated what he has stated: As a Bishop, he does not want to lead. Which means, he wants as a Catholic Bishop to "sit back" his Miter and His Crosier.

I did read it and I read that a bishop who is leading by example, preaching, teaching and conferring the sacraments is "sitting back". Sure he may not be leading in the way that you wish (not yet anyway) but it doesn't mean he isn't leading.

I don't think it is required that a bishop head up an organization so I don't think it's fair to say he is failing as a bishop if he doesn't do so, even under these circuмstances and maybe especially under these circuмstances. You want SSPX 2.0 so it can be infiltrated again?

At the very least I see him asking for time to discern and I really don't think it's too much to ask. It's all the more to our benefit that he not be rash.

Your above attributes of what he is doing, I do not dispute. I encourage that. However, that is not the question here. Nor is it "the way I want it". God forbid.

It is the Catechism that teaches us that a BISHOP is also to "lead the flock"; not as a Shepherd that allows his sheep to go astray, as his "Authority Crippled II" wishes it to be!

Further, this is NOT about Bishop Williamson starting another "organization"; not at all! This is about him already being a Catholic SSPX BISHOP, and for him to gather in his SSPX priests, his flock, and lead.

Bishop Williamson with the other priests are already in an organization called the SSPX. They were unjustly expelled. Until that is rectified, they are still SSPX Members and need to abide to their Statutes, live in common within new Priories, and continue on in the Mission of Archbishop Lefebvre.

It is that simple of a fix -to recognize who he already is- a standing Member as a SSPX Bishop of the Catholic Church and lead his priests, and the faithful entrusted to him

Nothing less.

Frances · « **Reply #26 on:** June 29, 2013, 01:29:35 AM »

Pray that Our Lord prepare a large fish with an appetite for British cuisine.

Charlotte NC Bill · « **Reply #27 on:** June 29, 2013, 06:22:59 AM »

Regardless...I believe once the SSPXMC has a seminary and after a little more time has passsed ( with no real changes within the SSPX back to the ArchBp's SSPX ) he WILL lead it.

Elsa Zardini · « **Reply #28 on:** June 29, 2013, 06:51:46 AM »

Machabees, Do you really believe Monseñor Williamson is a "Jonas"? But, in my ignorant opinion, please keep posting. You are needed. :thinking:

Elsa Zardini · « **Reply #29 on:** June 29, 2013, 07:13:47 AM »

Lefebvristes dot forum dash box dot com (two comments so far; unable to translate them)

1. Ces réponses, sont contenues en filigrane dans les différentes interventions et commentaires de Mgr Lefebvre si on les lit attentivement. Il faut lire à cet effet le livre de l'abbé Pivert, plus particulièrement aux pages 159 et suivantes, les citations, interventions et commentaire de Mgr Lefebvre y sont citées.

Je rappelle que le livre de l'abbé Pivert, dont Mgr Williamson dit tant de bien, s'intitule : Nos rapports avec Rome par son Excellence Mgr Marcel Lefebvre

2. Grande sagesse de Mgr Williamson qui ne se chausse pas d'oeillères dans la situation actuelle:

Quote:
Dieu a donné à Mgr Lefebvre le dernier souffle de la vraie autorité ecclésiale

C'est comme cela que semblait le voir Mgr Lefebvre en effet (Cf Mgr L. dans abbé Pivert)

Quote:
Mais pourquoi une seule opinion doit-elle s’appliquer à tous les cas ? Il y a toutes sortes de circonstances qui peuvent jouer dans une question semblable. (...) Il y a toutes sortes de circonstances qui peuvent jouer dans une question semblable. D’accord, ne pas quitter la FSSPX tant qu’elle persévère dans son erreur actuelle présente un risque grave de glisser petit à petit avec elle, mais les âmes ont besoin des sacrements et pas tous les prêtres de la Fraternité ne sont encore des traîtres, loin de là. Récemment en France la première édition d’un livre de 350 pages, consistant à 90% de citations de Mgr Lefebvre, a été épuisée en deux semaines. Et c’est un prêtre de la Fraternité qui l’a rédigé, M. l’abbé François Pivert. C’est un vrai signe d’espoir. Que Dieu le bénisse !

Quote:
Les désaccords personnels entre les prêtres il y a toujours eu, il y en aura toujours. Beaucoup plus graves sont les désaccords doctrinaux.

Oui, c'est ça la ligne de fracture, comme le disait Gentiloup dans son article de l'anniversaire du forum: Retrospective: après un an de combat, quel avenir?