Author Topic: Attending Mass is NOT a political statement (Read 1423 times)

mw2016 · « **on:** June 11, 2016, 02:37:53 PM »

After reading the "Is staying home ever justified?" thread, I was inspired to post this.

We all know why we don't attend the N.O. Mass.

But, attending the True Mass should be about one thing, and one thing only: the Sacrament and obtaining its needed graces.

That's it.

Mass attendance should not be a political statement on the faithful's part.

I very quickly lose patience with all the busybodies pontificating on where they think one should attend Mass.

Opinions are like...well, you know...everyone's got one.

I remember Fr. Pfieffer years ago telling us never to attend an Indult Mass. A week later we moved to a place that had no SSPX Mass - it was three hours away - but there was an Indult. His advice was promptly tossed out the window.

Gerry Matatics is probably single-handedly responsible for selling the extreme "recusant, home-alone" idea. I think this is dead wrong in most scenarios.

Nowadays, Fr. Pfeiffer will tell you never to attend an SSPX Mass. Or, not to attend certain Resistance Masses. Well, that's nice Fr., thank you for your opinion.

The FSSP priests will tell you never to attend an SSPX Mass.

The SSPX priests will tell you not to attend a Resistance Mass.

The sedes will tell you never to attend a non-sede Mass.

Again, the plethora of opinions is dizzying. Who can keep up with all this?

It occurs to me that since VII, there is no mechanism for the Faithful to register their displeasure or protest with anything happening in the Church.

We can vote with our feet and leave (find another parish or lose our faith altogether) or we can vote with our wallets and stop donating our hard-earned money.

Perhaps there should be a more organized level of participation amongst the faithful to have stopped certain nonsense before it got out of hand - I don't know.

But, sitting around armchair quarterbacking everyone by telling them where they should practice their faith is not helpful to anyone, IMO.

P.S. Maybe Matthew can fix the typo in my thread title? I'm really not an idiot, but I can't figure out how to edit that. Thanks!

TKGS · « **Reply #1 on:** June 11, 2016, 05:37:55 PM »

Quote from: mw2016

The sedes will tell you never to attend a non-sede Mass.

Once again, may I remind you that the only thing that makes a sedevacantist is the acceptance of the truth that the man pretending to be pope Bergoglio is not a true pope.

Some sedevacantists will tell you not to attend a non-sedevacantist Mass. Other sedevacantists (such as the CMRI) will tell you that attending a non-sedevacantist Mass is acceptable though you need to be sure that the priest is actually a valid priest and you need to be careful of becoming indifferent to the Crisis.

Please do not assign anything to all sedevacantists.

Matthew · « **Reply #2 on:** June 11, 2016, 05:47:53 PM »

If you are going to tell people to avoid going to Masses at a "rival" group, you better have a good reason.

1. There's a big difference between "that other Mass is far inferior, because the whole group is compromised..." and telling people to STAY HOME IF THEY HAVE NO OTHER OPTION than attending Mass with that group. Big difference.

It's OK to have an informed opinion, and decide a good-better-best among the lifeboats of Tradition. After all, Tradition is inherently chaotic (the shepherd has been struck, the sheep are scattered, and no authority to sort everything out!) and a man can become well informed and form his own opinion on which lifeboat is safest to park his soul for the duration of this Crisis in the Church. That is what we all must do, using the virtue of prudence. Do our best to keep the Faith. We will disagree with some of our fellow Catholics, but we must maintain charity and patience with our fellow suffering, faithful Catholics.

The problem comes in the raising your own fallible opinion to the level of dogma.

2. If you're going to tell people to avoid going to Mass with a "rival" group, you also better have some REASONS. For example, the validity of the priest! That's a big one. No point going to "mass" if the Holy Sacrifice isn't in fact offered up, and the Blessed Sacrament isn't confected!

Or if the priest at the local chapel of your "rival" group is a danger to the virginity of your children, or to the fidelity of your wife. That would be a good reason not to go.

But when Fr. Pfeiffer (for example) says you can't attend Mass with Fr. Zendejas (for example), then "you lost me" as the saying goes.

When the reason boils down to, "He's my competition, and I'd really appreciate it if you stayed loyal to me, and expressed that loyalty by boycotting this rival of mine" -- that's just sick and anything but Catholic.

Gerard from FE · « **Reply #3 on:** June 11, 2016, 06:34:55 PM »

I remember coming to the realization that most priests have no clue as to what they are telling you to avoid. They are too busy saying Mass themselves and rarely go out and investigate something like the TLM at an SSPX chapel.

A diocesan priest once told the congregation to avoid the SSPX. At the time, I thought of the 2 of us, I'd been to around 350 SSPX masses and I doubt the priest telling me what to think of it had ever been to one.

Conversely, SSPX priests that make ridiculous sweeping statements that they really can't back up factually don't get beyond my B.S. detector.

One of the more interesting things I've heard of is when a diocesan priest prior to Summorum Pontificuм would secretly go the SSPX and learn how to say the TLM. He was brought in on Saturdays to make use of the library and practice how to say the Mass.

He then obtained permission from his bishop to start offering the TLM provided he offered classes to teach the people about it. He made provisions to teach about 40 people and wound up with about 900. He trained the altar boys and the TLM became a regular mass scheduled at the parish..

The SSPX priests who helped and trained the diocesan priest eventually are reassigned. And a new priest is put in place who tells you to have nothing to do with diocesan TLMs.

What is a person supposed to draw from that? Were the SSPX priests enabling the use of the TLM in the diocese wrong for training a priest who asked for help? Did they do such a lousy job that you shouldn't go to that Mass? is the fact that hundreds of people who previously didn't even know a whit about the TLM now have it in their home parish?

mw2016 · « **Reply #4 on:** June 12, 2016, 01:43:59 PM »

Quote from: TKGS

Quote from: mw2016
The sedes will tell you never to attend a non-sede Mass.

Once again, may I remind you that the only thing that makes a sedevacantist is the acceptance of the truth that the man pretending to be pope Bergoglio is not a true pope.

Some sedevacantists will tell you not to attend a non-sedevacantist Mass. Other sedevacantists (such as the CMRI) will tell you that attending a non-sedevacantist Mass is acceptable though you need to be sure that the priest is actually a valid priest and you need to be careful of becoming indifferent to the Crisis.

Please do not assign anything to all sedevacantists.

I'm sorry, I did not mean for my own (sweeping) generalization to offend any sedes here.

I was merely trying to get at the general advice or overall mindset from those who will tell you where to go in that camp.

I personally have no animus for the sedes and I agree with many aspects of their opinions, even if I do not agree with their conclusion on the status of the Pope.

mw2016 · « **Reply #5 on:** June 12, 2016, 01:45:25 PM »

Quote from: Gerard from FE

I remember coming to the realization that most priests have no clue as to what they are telling you to avoid. They are too busy saying Mass themselves and rarely go out and investigate something like the TLM at an SSPX chapel.

A diocesan priest once told the congregation to avoid the SSPX. At the time, I thought of the 2 of us, I'd been to around 350 SSPX masses and I doubt the priest telling me what to think of it had ever been to one.

Conversely, SSPX priests that make ridiculous sweeping statements that they really can't back up factually don't get beyond my B.S. detector.

One of the more interesting things I've heard of is when a diocesan priest prior to Summorum Pontificuм would secretly go the SSPX and learn how to say the TLM. He was brought in on Saturdays to make use of the library and practice how to say the Mass.

He then obtained permission from his bishop to start offering the TLM provided he offered classes to teach the people about it. He made provisions to teach about 40 people and wound up with about 900. He trained the altar boys and the TLM became a regular mass scheduled at the parish..

The SSPX priests who helped and trained the diocesan priest eventually are reassigned. And a new priest is put in place who tells you to have nothing to do with diocesan TLMs.

What is a person supposed to draw from that? Were the SSPX priests enabling the use of the TLM in the diocese wrong for training a priest who asked for help? Did they do such a lousy job that you shouldn't go to that Mass? is the fact that hundreds of people who previously didn't even know a whit about the TLM now have it in their home parish?

This reminds me of that book the SSPX sent to N.O. priests many years ago, "Priest Where is Thy Mass?" that got exactly zero responses, as I recall.

TKGS · « **Reply #6 on:** June 12, 2016, 04:32:33 PM »

Quote from: mw2016

This reminds me of that book the SSPX sent to N.O. priests many years ago, "Priest Where is Thy Mass?" that got exactly zero responses, as I recall.

Didn't the forward of the book say that a copy of it was sent to every single Novus Ordo priest in the United States? If not in the forward, I'm sure I read that somewhere.

Sienna629 · « **Reply #7 on:** June 12, 2016, 07:41:59 PM »

Quote from: TKGS

Quote from: mw2016
This reminds me of that book the SSPX sent to N.O. priests many years ago, "Priest Where is Thy Mass?" that got exactly zero responses, as I recall.

Didn't the forward of the book say that a copy of it was sent to every single Novus Ordo priest in the United States? If not in the forward, I'm sure I read that somewhere.

I was told personally by a Novus Ordo "presbyter" that they are instructed by the Diocese to throw anything like that out without looking at it, and they do so as "blind obedience". That is what happened to all of the information Fr. Gruner sent them on Fatima. How sad! Someone will have to answer for that some day.

Gerard from FE · « **Reply #8 on:** June 12, 2016, 11:24:11 PM »

hmm… I remember Fr. Ken Novak saying that they got about 200 responses, some of them telling the SSPX where to stick it and others requested more info and kits for learning how to say the TLM.

That wasn't a bad book either.

mw2016 · « **Reply #9 on:** June 13, 2016, 05:18:08 PM »

Quote from: Gerard from FE

hmm… I remember Fr. Ken Novak saying that they got about 200 responses, some of them telling the SSPX where to stick it ...

Ha ha - that's kinda funny. In a sad way, of course. :cry: