Author Topic: Attend the SSPX? Read this. (Read 14079 times)

Neil Obstat · « **Reply #20 on:** August 19, 2015, 05:15:01 PM »

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One place where supplied jurisdiction becomes a serious concern is regarding validity of absolution in the confessional.

A priest needs to have jurisdiction when hearing a penitent's confession, in order to absolve his sins.

The local Novus Ordo parish has this from the local bishop, so the priests' absolution is valid (presuming he's really a priest and that he intends to give absolution).

But independent priests and SSPX priests must rely on supplied jurisdiction, instead of ordinary jurisdiction, since they don't have the permission of the local bishop to hear confessions.

Someone might ask, "But how does an independent priest get supplied jurisdiction, from some docuмent or authority?" The answer is that whenever a Catholic asks a priest to hear his confession, at that moment, the priest receives ("is supplied with") the necessary jurisdiction, directly from God, through the Church, even without the Pope's consent, because the Pope has no power to prevent the Church's HIGHEST LAW (the salvation of souls) from being efficacious (salus animarum lex suprema ecclesia est).

And by extension, the fact that a person stands in line to confess in turn to an independent priest presumes the penitent is requesting absolution from that priest, such that jurisdiction is supplied to the priest each time a penitent kneels down and says, "Bless me, Father, for I have sinned; it's been ____ days since my last confession..."

It was informative to see, about 2 years ago, when +F threatened to deny ordained priests any jurisdiction, such that their absolutions would be nullified without +Fellay's approval -- as if he had presumed to have ordinary jurisdiction. In context, he was apparently speaking only to SSPX seminarians who were about to be ordained, and he was attempting to frighten them into submission insuring that they wouldn't dare to leave the SSPX after ordination, and become independent.

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2Vermont · « **Reply #21 on:** August 19, 2015, 05:17:05 PM »

Quote from: Matthew

VCR and Centro,

Jurisdiction is not "has a good claim on your support".

Jurisdiction does not mean "we (alone) deserve to exist"

Jurisdiction does not mean "you had better show up here (and nowhere else) under pain of sin"

Jurisdiction does not mean "God's full blessing and stamp of approval"

The Crisis in the Church requires that we side with the Truth over Authority. Authority only exists for the sake of the Faith/truth. When authority starts dismantling the Faith, it loses its right to be obeyed.

But the authority remains. It doesn't instantly get transferred to someone else (say, Bishop Fellay, Bishop Williamson, or Bishop Sanborn)

You may follow those bishops, as you keep the Faith in your various lifeboats -- that's perfectly legit for a Catholic, and is the foundation of the Traditional movement.

But if you decide that this bishop is bad for stealing properties from the SSPX (for example), you may leave and follow a different Trad bishop.

You don't have to follow the bishop that God placed over you, because God hasn't placed any Trad bishop over any of us in particular. They are all auxiliary bishops only. They have no Jurisdiction. Their permission from the Church to ordain, confirm, etc. comes from the Church in the form of SUPPLIED JURISDICTION which is available because of the emergency situation/Crisis in the Church.

If the Church weren't in Crisis, you couldn't have "independent" organizations with autonomous bishops like the SSPX, SSPV, CMRI, etc. Normally, if you don't answer to Rome on a daily basis, you're in schism, period.

But couldn't one say, if one truly believes the Conciliar Church is the True Church, that we do, in fact, have a bishop that God placed over us...in every diocese?

JPaul · « **Reply #22 on:** August 19, 2015, 06:22:21 PM »

2Vermont,

Quote

But couldn't one say, if one truly believes the Conciliar Church is the True Church, that we do, in fact, have a bishop that God placed over us...in every diocese?

Now, Now, let's not get carried away.....................................

2Vermont · « **Reply #23 on:** August 19, 2015, 06:26:31 PM »

Quote from: J.Paul

2Vermont,
Quote
But couldn't one say, if one truly believes the Conciliar Church is the True Church, that we do, in fact, have a bishop that God placed over us...in every diocese?

Now, Now, let's not get carried away.....................................

How is that getting carried away? If God placed the Pope over us doesn't He also place the bishops over us as well?

Matthew · « **Reply #24 on:** August 19, 2015, 07:00:30 PM »

Quote from: 2Vermont

Quote from: J.Paul
2Vermont,
Quote
But couldn't one say, if one truly believes the Conciliar Church is the True Church, that we do, in fact, have a bishop that God placed over us...in every diocese?

Now, Now, let's not get carried away.....................................

How is that getting carried away? If God placed the Pope over us doesn't He also place the bishops over us as well?

Yes, the Pope and bishops are there, but it doesn't matter. The local Ordinary, the Pope himself, or even an angel from heaven has no right to preach a different Gospel and ask us to follow it. Vatican I specifically declared that the power wasn't given to Peter to preach a new Gospel or to change the Faith.

That is why on the one hand we acknowledge the existence of the Conciliar Church, and on the other hand, we choose to disobey it and stay aloof from it.

We must obey God rather than men. We can't obey men and lose the Faith; that would be the tail wagging the dog. The whole point of obeying those men in the first place was to preserve our souls in the Faith!

Obedience is a virtue, yes, but it's only part of the cardinal virtue of Justice. Above the cardinal virtues are the higher virtues: Faith, Hope and Charity. They always come first.

Today, obedience is the most handy tool used by the devil (and his henchmen) to dissolve the Church. We mustn't let them!