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Author Topic: Attacking the canard - "Waaah, nobody told me about Resistance Mass in my area!"  (Read 1825 times)

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Offline Matthew

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I think this is a canard, or even propaganda, against Bp. Williamson, Bp. Zendejas, etc.

I don't believe actual Traditional Catholics of good will are missing out on Mass due to Bp. Zendejas personal, "word of mouth" strategy.

I don't care where you live.  You need to be in touch with other Catholics in your area. You need to make yourself known to them. You should have Catholic friends in your area (from your old SSPX chapel, from online, CathInfo, Facebook, etc.)

Placing myself in thousands of different shoes, I can't imagine a scenario where I would be "totally helpless" without some newspaper advertisement for a Resistance Mass location in my area. I would make it my business to be in contact with other like-minded, serious, non-Sede, ex-SSPX Catholics. And if that were impossible, I would frequent online forums and make contacts that way. I wouldn't be helpless. I would do my part. But then again, I would be of good will wanting to attend the Resistance and support it.

I don't doubt that some people fall through the cracks -- but that's what CathInfo is for. If you are isolated (not many friends in your area) and STILL make the incredibly foolish decision to remain completely aloof from Traditional Catholic forums (especially CathInfo), then you just don't care enough about Mass, and therefore you don't deserve to attend Mass. Period. For such persons, missing out on a Resistance Mass or other event should be considered just desserts for being imprudent -- not to say stupid.

Making friends or acquaintances in your area doesn't cost anything. A CathInfo account doesn't cost anything. Even if you got banned, you could probably sign up for another account and just not post again, or just browse the forum (lurk). If a banned member were really a good guy, and just wanted the Mass, he could sign up for another account and just make a straightforward post asking about Mass in their area. You better believe I wouldn't check into it. I'd just assume it's a new member.

There are plenty of Catholics of good will who have done a quick Google search, and end up on my chapel's blog or CathInfo. Either way, they end up with a clear and easy means to contact someone (me) and I have passed on the messages and contact info from many Catholics of good will over the past several years.

In my opinion, this covers close to 100% of Catholics of good will actually looking to attend a Resistance Mass. Not 100% of those wishing to attend -- just those of good will.

I've heard young men complain about lack of publicity regarding Resistance events happening on the other side of the country from them. When asked if they were planning to attend, they always say, "No, but.... but... it's the principle of the thing!" Give me a break. They just want to make trouble! If they want to attend, and are serious, honest, of good will -- no one is stopping them from politely asking and finding out the time and location details.

Bp. Zendejas knows this. He knows that no REAL parishioners are lost with his word-of-mouth strategy. Just a lot of drama and headaches from Pfeifferites, the SSPX, etc. Keep in mind that Their Excellencies are persecuted from BOTH SIDES -- Fr. Pfeiffer out in left field, and the SSPX and the modern world as well. Any of those enemies would love nothing more than to call up the owner of the planned location, give them an earful about +W's views on the h0Ɩ0cαųst, and have the event shut down.

And some people mock Bp. Zendejas' prudence. Sorry, but you're just wrong! You don't know what the heck you're talking about.

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Offline SeanJohnson

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Couldn't disagree more:

The SAJM needs an American District website.  Period.

I just received this email yesterday:

"Good evening Sean,

Thank you for letting me know about the Mass locations. I really appreciate it. Is there a mailing list or anyway that I can find out his Mass locations in time to make travel plans? I also have a friend that recently stopped going to the SSPX chapel in Winona and is very interested in attending a resistance chapel. Do you have one in Minnesota?

Thank you and God bless,
Amy"


I can forward you the actual email.

I get this stuff all the time.

Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."


Offline Matthew

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I can forward you the actual email.

I get this stuff all the time.


I get similar contacts.

Proves my point -- the good Catholics are being taken care of.

Now you ASSUME that because this Amy sent you an e-mail, that there are 20 more just like her in your area who are awash at sea, offline, homebound, totally cut off from other Catholics and the Internet and can't even do a google search for "resistance chapel location" which would probably bring them to CathInfo or some other means of contact. "If only the Resistance would advertise in the newspaper, then Amy and the 20 unknown families like her could pack our Resistance Mass locations!"

I make no such baseless assumptions. I assume there's no one else that wanted to go to the Resistance Masses. You, meanwhile, have NO REASON to make such an assumption.

When there's a will, there's a way. If you care about something, you will put in an OUNCE of effort. Easy come, easy go.
Also, winners make their own luck. That is my life philosophy. Another favorite quote: "In my experience, there's no such thing as luck." - Obi-wan Kenobi

But I don't blame you -- I have a unique perspective here. You see, I lean more towards the "open publicity" side of the spectrum personally (though I understand where Bp. Z is coming from). My own chapel has a website, is talked about on CathInfo (a highly visible forum, as you know), a Facebook page, and the website ranks very high in Google search results. So naturally I get people contacting me about Mass (and also the nearby "priory" or chapel of Stella Maris outside Houston) all the time. Anyone in a 200 mile radius should have been here by now. I respond to all requests, PMs, and e-mails.

But how many of those people actually show up for Mass? Very few. Do we have a preponderance of parishioners thanks to my personal predilection and penchant for publicity? No.

Now one might instead conclude that Texas is full of pagans and infidels, and they could be correct. But it might just be that there aren't that many people interested in supporting the Resistance at this time. The world really has gone downhill over the years, including the world of Tradition. In particular, apathy reigns supreme.

I have seen NO evidence for your assertion that countless Resistance supporters are waiting in the wings, "if only Resistance chapels were advertised far and wide!" In my experience, I have seen plenty of people complain -- but either they aren't truly interested in supporting the Resistance, and/or they are just trolls out to make trouble. I'm sorry, but a person can't complain about not knowing the time/location of an event he *never considered* attending. And those are the only kinds of people I've seen complain about "missed opportunities to attend Resistance functions".
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Offline SeanJohnson

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Matthew-

I understand where you are coming from, and I support Bishop Zendejas and th SAJM.

We take Bishop Zendejas any time we can get him here in Minneapolis.

Its true, I have no idea how many ladies like Amy are out there, looking.  Or how many people like her friend in Winona are looking.

But I am thinking about those Catholics who do not frequent the internet, or, those Catholics who may be sitting in an indult chapel and know not a single person in the SSPX or Resistance, but who read something by Archbishop Lefebvre, or heard something in the Church basement about some "Resistance" group, and would like to know more.

For those kind of people, the "word of mouth" is not going to reach them.

Many have no computers in the home.

The elderly may be bewildered by computers.

Perhaps some will be able to find Cathinfo, but they shouldn't have to:

If they have a computer at all, they should be able to go right to the horses mouth, and click on a website by the SAJM (or whomever), and hit the "Who are we?" tab to learn about their positions, locations, vocation information, etc.

I agree CI offers something of a de facto compensation for the invisibility of the American Resistance, but how strange that it should be put in that position?

I'm about as connected as anyone else in the Resistance, and I recall being surprised to read on Cathinfo about some Resistance pilgrimage to Fatima, which I didn't know about until after it was over.

Had there been a website, I could just have clicked on "Upcoming events," or whatever.  It makes no difference that I personally would not have been able to go.  Somewhere, there was a trad businessman, retiree, or Portugese Resistance person who might have liked to have gone, but who knew nothing about it.

I don't want to make mountains out of molehills, but a website sure would help some people, as well as repair the perception of a resistance that is afraid to show itself.

Just my two cents.
Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

Offline Matthew

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So, Sean, in conclusion, I am unconvinced that the current lack of publicity is a problem.

I also reject the Business School assertion that "for every complaining customer, there are 10 others who didn't speak up." That might apply to retail and customer service, but not to the world of Traditional Catholics.

It's a question of priorities. If a person wanted to be involved in the Resistance, they would be. They would have a high interest in it. It would be a major part of their life. You wouldn't be able to keep them off the forums. They would make friends, contacts, attend any Resistance event they could.

And let's not forget this is about grace. The Faith, conversion, etc. are not simply matters of Madison avenue mindshare, otherwise the SSPX would be where it's at! We should all hire a branding agency, etc. No, it's about God's grace and God's providence. Trust in God; God will provide. Saying "1 complainer equals 10 others that wanted to, but didn't complain" is fine for the world of Retail, but how many people are you asserting that God is abandoning or letting down? Let that sink in.

The fact is, Bp. Zendejas isn't sitting there with a red pen drawing lines through a list of good-willed Catholics attending his chapels.  He's not picking and choosing some kind of elite. No, those people who attend his chapels aren't special at all. They're just the people who showed up. They attended the SSPX and had a few contacts who reached out to them.

The way to go from being an UNKNOWN possible troll to being a trusted parishioner? Just show up for Mass several times. ANYONE can easily become a trusted, known quantity -- part of the "chosen elite" as it were -- just by NOT being trouble for an extended period of time. It's easy! The bar truly is quite low.

Who does anyone claim Bp. Zendejas is actively rejecting? Ghost people -- who may or may not exist. Silly.
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Offline Matthew

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Do you know for a fact that Bp. Z and Bp. Faure don't want an official website, even if it were handed to them on a silver platter?

Wait a minute -- SAJM does have a website.
http://sajm-siteofficiel.blogspot.com/

It might not be as snazzy (or with a domain name) like sspx.org, but that might be because of lack of resources/volunteers at this time.
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Offline SeanJohnson

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Do you know for a fact that Bp. Z and Bp. Faure don't want an official website, even if it were handed to them on a silver platter?

Wait a minute -- SAJM does have a website.
http://sajm-siteofficiel.blogspot.com/

It might not be as snazzy (or with a domain name) like sspx.org, but that might be because of lack of resources/volunteers at this time.

Its in French, and does not discuss the American apostolate at all.
Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

Offline Matthew

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Its in French, and does not discuss the American apostolate at all.
Have you volunteered to maintain an American version of the website, complete with covering any expenses for web design, graphics, webhosting, and domain name?

If no one has thus volunteered, how can you castigate +Faure for rejecting no one's non-existent offer?
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Offline SeanJohnson

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Have you volunteered to maintain an American version of the website, complete with covering any expenses for web design, graphics, webhosting, and domain name?

If no one has thus volunteered, how can you castigate +Faure for rejecting no one's non-existent offer?

Bishop Faure is not under discussion:

An American District website is the precise subject, and I will bet you $100 that, if I email Bishop Zendejas (with you CC'd in) right now and propose designing and maintaining a website for the American SAJM (which would include Mass locations, times, and contact information for all SAJM American District venues and events), he will have some reason (such as those you previously mentioned) for not wanting me to do it.

Do you doubt that?
Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

Offline Matthew

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Matthew-

I'm about as connected as anyone else in the Resistance, and I recall being surprised to read on Cathinfo about some Resistance pilgrimage to Fatima, which I didn't know about until after it was over.

...It makes no difference that I personally would not have been able to go.  

I say it makes all the difference in the world. You don't hang around Trads who do lots of traveling. You don't frequent Catholic travel blogs or talk on online forums about travel. You failed to seek out information about upcoming pilgrimages because frankly you aren't interested. It's no accident that this event passed you by without notice. The hard facts are: you are not interested in attending such events. See? No harm, no foul.

You are not a casualty; you said yourself you wouldn't have been able to attend. Sounds like everything is working as designed to me!

As for the hypothetical Portuguese businessman, etc., I repeat what I said above: they simply don't exist. I have no evidence that they exist. You have put forward no such evidence. Normally believing in things unseen requires faith. But in this case, Faith tells me that they probably don't exist, since God provides :)
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Offline Matthew

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Bishop Faure is not under discussion:

An American District website is the precise subject, and I will bet you $100 that, if I email Bishop Zendejas (with you CC'd in) right now and propose designing and maintaining a website for the American SAJM (which would include Mass locations, times, and contact information for all SAJM American District venues and events), he will have some reason (such as those you previously mentioned) for not wanting me to do it.

Do you doubt that?

I'm not a betting man, but why not try it?

I don't see why each chapel couldn't have a coordinator who checks a public GMAIL address. The coordinator could even serve God by giving out his phone number, so prospective parishioners could call. I do that here. Yes, it's volunteer work. But it's for God and nobody else, so it's all good.

You do need a "Grease trap" to catch all the gunk before it enters the main pipes. That's why you have a contact phone number/e-mail. A new parishioner should at least have to call and give their name, before getting the address for the place. If they want to show up anonymously without having to talk to anyone -- they are either a thief or a troll/heckler/troublemaker.

If they can't work up the courage to make a phone call, they will probably go into hives being in public (even just 12 parishioners) anyhow.

I'm sorry, but Trad chapels aren't Wal-mart. We have to acknowledge that reality. A retail store and a garage chapel are two very different realities. Usually chapels involve private homes, for starters. Trad chapels involve strong beliefs, strong opinions, strong emotions, and can set one person (an enemy) on a focused mission or quest to destroy. Wal-mart doesn't have to deal with this. If someone was trying to break things in the store, they could call the cops. There's no law against heckling, talking bad about a priest, or reporting to management that a priest's superior is a h0Ɩ0cαųst denier.
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Offline Matthew

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If more and more people suggest to Bp. Z that we need a SAJM United States website listing the chapels, maybe he will consider it providential and start praying about it?

Tell him what you think -- go ahead! Make sure to give lots of good reasons. He operates on reason.

(I'm not just talking to Sean here -- I'm talking to everyone, especially those who think the Resistance needs more publicity)

The thing about prudence is that it changes as the situation changes. If he were doing something for dogmatic reasons, you'd expect him never to change.
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Offline Matthew

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Imagine if we replaced "Resistance Mass" with ANY OTHER SUBJECT.

Let's say building electronics gadgets also known as "makers". What if I frequented NO such websites, visited NO such forums, and made no efforts find and befriend other like-minded individuals in my area. A "maker convention" comes and goes in my area without me even hearing about it. Who would I have to blame, besides myself?

Could I make the claim that, despite my apparent apathy, I was actually the victim of elitism because they didn't rent enough banners, place the event on the front page of the newspaper, etc.? 

My point: if you don't make sufficient effort on your end, you can't criticize the event organizer for not spending enough (or doing enough) advertising to reach you.
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Offline St Ignatius

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Food for thought...

I came into this world, shortly after the conclusion of VII. My whole life has been in Tradition in the post VII era. I vaguely remember in the seventies, (before the SSPX had any presence in the US,) there were several priests roaming the country side. Most of these priests didn't have a place of their own, they didn't have cell phones or internet, they didn't have traditional periodical publications advertising Traditional Masses in your area etc... a catholic had to do their due diligence to seek out the Traditional Sacraments. In my remote neck of the woods, we were able to aquire a priest to say Mass once a month in a hotel room for some time, about a hour and a half away.

I believe that things have gotten way to soft for us now days, we expect that things be handed over on a silver platter. I thank God for my earlier experiences in this life, I believe it has put me one step ahead of the masses in our current tribulations. God has provided for me and my family with all that we need. Thanks be to God! 

Offline Miseremini

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Its in French, and does not discuss the American apostolate at all.
It's even worse in Canada
"Let God arise, and let His enemies be scattered: and them that hate Him flee from before His Holy Face"  Psalm 67:2[/b]