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Author Topic: As they say: "Its official" !! (Just a matter of time)  (Read 5153 times)

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Offline curioustrad

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As they say: "Its official" !! (Just a matter of time)
« on: September 23, 2014, 07:30:53 AM »
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  • Comunicato della Sala Stampa, 23.09.2014

    [B0667]

    Comunicato della Sala Stampa
    Testo in lingua italiana

    Traduzione in lingua francese

    Traduzione in lingua inglese

    Traduzione in lingua spagnola

    Testo in lingua italiana

    Si è svolto oggi, martedì 23 settembre dalle ore 11 alle ore 13 in un clima di cordialità presso la sede della Congregazione per la Dottrina della Fede, l’incontro tra l’Em.mo Cardinale Gerhard Ludwig Müller, Prefetto della Congregazione per la Dottrina della Fede e S.E. Mons. Bernard Fellay, Superiore generale della Fraternità Sacerdotale S. Pio X. All’incontro erano presenti gli Ecc.mi: Mons. Luis Francisco Ladaria Ferrer, SI, Segretario della medesima Congregazione, Mons. Joseph Augustine Di Noia, OP, Segretario Aggiunto e Mons. Guido Pozzo, Segretario della Pontificia Commissione Ecclesia Dei, nonché gli assistenti della FSSPX Rev.di Niklaus Pfluger e Alain-Marc Nély.

    Durante l’incontro si sono esaminati alcuni problemi di ordine dottrinale e canonico e si è inteso di procedere per gradi e in tempi ragionevoli verso il superamento delle difficoltà e l’auspicato raggiungimento della piena riconciliazione.

    [01479-01.01] [Testo originale: Italiano]

    Traduzione in lingua francese

    Ce matin, le Préfet de la Congrégation pour la doctrine de la foi s'est entretenu pendant deux heures avec Mgr.Bernard Fellay, Supérieur de la Fraternité sacerdotale St.Pie X, accompagné par ses Assistants l'Abbé Nikolaus Pfluger et l'Abbé Alain-Marc Nély. Le Cardinal Gerhard Ludwig Müller était accompagné du Secrétaire et du Secrétaire adjoint du dicastère, les Archevêques Mgr.Luis Francisco Ladaria Ferrer, SJ, et Mgr.Joseph Augustine Di Noia, OP, ainsi que de l’Archevêque Mgr.Guido Pozzo, Secrétaire de la Commission pontificale Ecclesia Dei.

    Les parties, qui ont examiné certaines questions d'ordre doctrinal et canonique, ont convenu de procéder par paliers mais dans un délai raisonnable vers le dépassement des difficultés. Et ce dans la perspective désirée d'une pleine réconciliation.

    [01479-03.01][Texte original: Italien - version de travail]

    Traduzione in lingua inglese

    On the morning of Tuesday 23 September from 11 am to 1 pm, a cordial meeting took place at the premises of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, between Cardinal Gerhard Ludwig Muller, prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith and Bishop Bernard Fellay, superior general of the Society of St. Pius X. The meeting was also attended by Archbishops Luis Francisco Ladaria Ferrer, S.I., secretary of the same Congregation, Joseph Augustine Di Noia, O.P., adjunct secretary and Guido Pozzo, secretary of the Pontifical Commission Ecclesia Dei, along with two assistants from the Society of St. Pius X, Rev. Niklaus Pfluger and Rev. Alain-Marc Nély.

    During the meeting, various problems of a doctrinal and canonical nature were examined, and it was decided to proceed gradually and over a reasonable period of time in order to overcome difficulties and with a view to the envisioned full reconciliation.


    [01479-02.01] [Original text: Italian - working translation]

    Traduzione in lingua spagnola

    De las 11 a las 13 de esta mañana y en un clima de cordialidad ha tenido lugar en la Congregación para la Doctrina de la Fe el encuentro entre Su Eminencia el cardenal Gerhard Ludwig Müller, Prefecto de la Congregación para la Doctrina de la Fe y Su Excelencia Mons. Bernard Fellay, Superior General de la Fraternidad Sacerdotal San Pío X. En el encuentro estaban presentes los Excelentísimos monseñores Luis Francisco Ladaria Ferrer S.I. Secretario de la misma congregación, Joseph Augustine Di Noia O.P. Secretario adjunto y Guido Pozzo, Secretario de la Pontificia Comisión Ecclesia Dei, además de los asistentes de la FSSPX, los reverendos Niklaus Pfluger y Alain-Marc Nély.

    Durante el encuentro se han examinado algunos problemas de orden doctrinal y canónico y si ha acordado proceder gradualmente y dentro de un tiempo razonable para superar las dificultades y alcanzar la deseada reconciliación plena.

    [01479-04.01] [Texto original: Italiano - Traducción no oficial]

    [B0667-XX.02]
    Please pray for my soul.
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    Offline abl

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    As they say: "Its official" !! (Just a matter of time)
    « Reply #1 on: September 23, 2014, 09:31:54 AM »
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  • Quote from: curioustrad
    Comunicato della Sala Stampa, 23.09.2014

    [B0667]

    Comunicato della Sala Stampa
    Testo in lingua italiana

    Traduzione in lingua francese

    Traduzione in lingua inglese

    Traduzione in lingua spagnola

    Testo in lingua italiana

    Si è svolto oggi, martedì 23 settembre dalle ore 11 alle ore 13 in un clima di cordialità presso la sede della Congregazione per la Dottrina della Fede, l’incontro tra l’Em.mo Cardinale Gerhard Ludwig Müller, Prefetto della Congregazione per la Dottrina della Fede e S.E. Mons. Bernard Fellay, Superiore generale della Fraternità Sacerdotale S. Pio X. All’incontro erano presenti gli Ecc.mi: Mons. Luis Francisco Ladaria Ferrer, SI, Segretario della medesima Congregazione, Mons. Joseph Augustine Di Noia, OP, Segretario Aggiunto e Mons. Guido Pozzo, Segretario della Pontificia Commissione Ecclesia Dei, nonché gli assistenti della FSSPX Rev.di Niklaus Pfluger e Alain-Marc Nély.

    Durante l’incontro si sono esaminati alcuni problemi di ordine dottrinale e canonico e si è inteso di procedere per gradi e in tempi ragionevoli verso il superamento delle difficoltà e l’auspicato raggiungimento della piena riconciliazione.

    [01479-01.01] [Testo originale: Italiano]

    Traduzione in lingua francese

    Ce matin, le Préfet de la Congrégation pour la doctrine de la foi s'est entretenu pendant deux heures avec Mgr.Bernard Fellay, Supérieur de la Fraternité sacerdotale St.Pie X, accompagné par ses Assistants l'Abbé Nikolaus Pfluger et l'Abbé Alain-Marc Nély. Le Cardinal Gerhard Ludwig Müller était accompagné du Secrétaire et du Secrétaire adjoint du dicastère, les Archevêques Mgr.Luis Francisco Ladaria Ferrer, SJ, et Mgr.Joseph Augustine Di Noia, OP, ainsi que de l’Archevêque Mgr.Guido Pozzo, Secrétaire de la Commission pontificale Ecclesia Dei.

    Les parties, qui ont examiné certaines questions d'ordre doctrinal et canonique, ont convenu de procéder par paliers mais dans un délai raisonnable vers le dépassement des difficultés. Et ce dans la perspective désirée d'une pleine réconciliation.

    [01479-03.01][Texte original: Italien - version de travail]

    Traduzione in lingua inglese

    On the morning of Tuesday 23 September from 11 am to 1 pm, a cordial meeting took place at the premises of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, between Cardinal Gerhard Ludwig Muller, prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith and Bishop Bernard Fellay, superior general of the Society of St. Pius X. The meeting was also attended by Archbishops Luis Francisco Ladaria Ferrer, S.I., secretary of the same Congregation, Joseph Augustine Di Noia, O.P., adjunct secretary and Guido Pozzo, secretary of the Pontifical Commission Ecclesia Dei, along with two assistants from the Society of St. Pius X, Rev. Niklaus Pfluger and Rev. Alain-Marc Nély.

    During the meeting, various problems of a doctrinal and canonical nature were examined, and it was decided to proceed gradually and over a reasonable period of time in order to overcome difficulties and with a view to the envisioned full reconciliation.


    [01479-02.01] [Original text: Italian - working translation]

    Traduzione in lingua spagnola

    De las 11 a las 13 de esta mañana y en un clima de cordialidad ha tenido lugar en la Congregación para la Doctrina de la Fe el encuentro entre Su Eminencia el cardenal Gerhard Ludwig Müller, Prefecto de la Congregación para la Doctrina de la Fe y Su Excelencia Mons. Bernard Fellay, Superior General de la Fraternidad Sacerdotal San Pío X. En el encuentro estaban presentes los Excelentísimos monseñores Luis Francisco Ladaria Ferrer S.I. Secretario de la misma congregación, Joseph Augustine Di Noia O.P. Secretario adjunto y Guido Pozzo, Secretario de la Pontificia Comisión Ecclesia Dei, además de los asistentes de la FSSPX, los reverendos Niklaus Pfluger y Alain-Marc Nély.

    Durante el encuentro se han examinado algunos problemas de orden doctrinal y canónico y si ha acordado proceder gradualmente y dentro de un tiempo razonable para superar las dificultades y alcanzar la deseada reconciliación plena.

    [01479-04.01] [Texto original: Italiano - Traducción no oficial]

    [B0667-XX.02]


    AFD no. 5   The affirmations of the Second Vatican Council and of the later Pontifical Magisterium relating to the relationship between the Church and the non-Catholic Christian confessions, as well as the social duty of religion and the right to religious liberty, whose formulation is with difficulty reconcilable with prior doctrinal affirmations from the Magisterium,....


    Sep 23, 2014: ... it was decided to proceed gradually and over a reasonable period of time in order to overcome difficulties.....




    Offline curioustrad

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    As they say: "Its official" !! (Just a matter of time)
    « Reply #2 on: September 23, 2014, 09:40:12 AM »
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  • Quote from: abl

    AFD no. 5   The affirmations of the Second Vatican Council and of the later Pontifical Magisterium relating to the relationship between the Church and the non-Catholic Christian confessions, as well as the social duty of religion and the right to religious liberty, whose formulation is with difficulty reconcilable with prior doctrinal affirmations from the Magisterium,....


    Sep 23, 2014: ... it was decided to proceed gradually and over a reasonable period of time in order to overcome difficulties.....




    I wonder if the "irreconcilable difficulties" had anything to do with:

    (a) the recent "moving" of district and autonomous house superiors in the SSPX ?
    (b) the ongoing shake-up in the Novus Ordo hierarchy especially in the US,  Germany and Rome ?

    i.e. it's not the facts on paper only the personalities involved...
    Please pray for my soul.
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    Offline untitled

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    As they say: "Its official" !! (Just a matter of time)
    « Reply #3 on: September 23, 2014, 11:03:04 AM »
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  • Communiqué from the General House of the Society of Saint Pius X

    23-09-2014  

    Filed under From Rome, From Tradition, News

    On Tuesday September 23, 2014 his Excellency Bishop Benard Fellay, Superior General of the Society of Saint Pius X, met with Cardinal Gerhard Ludwig Müller, Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.  With Bishop Fellay were Frs. Niklaus Pfluger and Alain-Marc Nély, First and Second Assistants General of the Society.  Cardinal Müller was accompanied by Monsignor Luis Ladaria Ferrer s.j., Secretary of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith; Monsignor Joseph Augustin Di Noia o.p., Assistant Secretary; and Monsignor Guido Pozzo, Secretary of the Pontifical Commission Ecclesia Dei.
    The meeting took place in the offices of the Congregation for the Docrine of the Faith from 11:00 a.m. until 1 p.m.  The goal of the audience was to allow Cardinal Müller and Bishop Fellay to meet for the first time and to discuss together the status of the relations between the Holy See and the Society of Saint Pius X.  This was their first encounter since the resignation of Pope Benedict XVI and the end of Cardinal William Jospeh Levada’s term as Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.
    During this cordial meeting, doctrinal and canonical difficulties were discussed, and the current situation of the Church was mentioned. It was decided to continue the discussions in order to clarify the points of contention that remain.
    Menzingen, September 23, 2014

    http://www.dici.org/en/news/communique-from-the-general-house-of-the-society-of-saint-pius-x-2/

    Offline curioustrad

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    As they say: "Its official" !! (Just a matter of time)
    « Reply #4 on: September 23, 2014, 11:19:55 AM »
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  • Quote from: untitled
    Communiqué from the General House of the Society of Saint Pius X

    23-09-2014  

    Filed under From Rome, From Tradition, News

    On Tuesday September 23, 2014 his Excellency Bishop Benard Fellay, Superior General of the Society of Saint Pius X, met with Cardinal Gerhard Ludwig Müller, Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.  With Bishop Fellay were Frs. Niklaus Pfluger and Alain-Marc Nély, First and Second Assistants General of the Society.  Cardinal Müller was accompanied by Monsignor Luis Ladaria Ferrer s.j., Secretary of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith; Monsignor Joseph Augustin Di Noia o.p., Assistant Secretary; and Monsignor Guido Pozzo, Secretary of the Pontifical Commission Ecclesia Dei.
    The meeting took place in the offices of the Congregation for the Docrine of the Faith from 11:00 a.m. until 1 p.m.  The goal of the audience was to allow Cardinal Müller and Bishop Fellay to meet for the first time and to discuss together the status of the relations between the Holy See and the Society of Saint Pius X.  This was their first encounter since the resignation of Pope Benedict XVI and the end of Cardinal William Jospeh Levada’s term as Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.
    During this cordial meeting, doctrinal and canonical difficulties were discussed, and the current situation of the Church was mentioned. It was decided to continue the discussions in order to clarify the points of contention that remain.
    Menzingen, September 23, 2014

    http://www.dici.org/en/news/communique-from-the-general-house-of-the-society-of-saint-pius-x-2/


    I'll bet they'll continue - right into the arms of Francis...
    Please pray for my soul.
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    Offline Francisco

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    As they say: "Its official" !! (Just a matter of time)
    « Reply #5 on: September 23, 2014, 11:35:38 AM »
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  • Quote from: curioustrad

    I'll bet they'll continue - right into the arms of Francis...


    They will - after Ferrer has suitably corrected their dated theology. Here is some of what Wikipedia says about Ferrer:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luis_Ladaria_Ferrer


    ==In March 2004, Ladaria Ferrer was named Secretary-General of the International Theological Commission and led the Commission's evaluation, beginning in 2006, of the concept of limbo, that is, of the fate of children who die without having received the sacrament of Baptism. The Commission concluded that there is hope that these children are able to receive salvation and enjoy the beatific vision.

    On 9 July 2008, Ladaria Ferrer was appointed Secretary of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith and Titular Archbishop of Thibica by Pope Benedict XVI. He continued to be general secretary of the International Theological Commission[1] until 22 April 2009, when he resigned and was succeeded by Charles Morerod, O.P.


    Offline Maria Auxiliadora

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    As they say: "Its official" !! (Just a matter of time)
    « Reply #6 on: September 23, 2014, 12:46:26 PM »
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  • http://vaticaninsider.lastampa.it/en/the-vatican/detail/articolo/fellay-mueller-36488/

    09/23/2014
    Fellay and Müller discuss a “gradual” move towards full reconciliation

    The meeting between the Superior of the Fraternity of St. Pius X and the heads of the Ecclesia Dei Commission lasted two hours. The Secretary of the former Holy office, Luis Ladaria, was also present
    ANDREA TORNIELLI
    vatican city

    Their meeting lasted two hours, from 11a.m. to 1 p.m. CET. The Superior of the Fraternity of St. Pius X, Bishop Bernard Fellay and Cardinal Gerhard Ludwig Müller, Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith and President of the Pontifical Commission “Ecclesia Dei” (the body that handles relations between the Holy See’s and the Lefebvrians), discussed “problems of a doctrinal and canonical nature” which need to be resolved in order for the Fraternity to enter into full communion with the Roman Catholic Church.  This was the first time Fellay held a face to face meeting with Müller since the latter was appointed head of the doctrinal Congregation. The Holy See announced the meeting, which took place at the premises of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.

     

    The Holy See’s press release informs that the talks were “cordial”. Müller was joined by archbishops Luis Ladaria and Augustine Di Noia, respectively secretary and adjunct secretary of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faithand Guido Pozzo, secretary of the Pontifical Commission “Ecclesia Dei”. Bishop Fellay was accompanied by two assistants from the Society of St. Pius X, Rev. Niklaus Pfluger and Rev. Alain-Marc Nély.

     

    “During the meeting,” the statement says, “various problems of a doctrinal and canonical nature were examined, and it was decided to proceed gradually and over a reasonable period of time in order to overcome difficulties and with a view to the envisioned full reconciliation.” This phrase is important as it indicates that communication channels between the Holy See and the Lefebvrians remain open. Some in the Vatican and in the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith called for a drastic decision to bring about a formal split between the two again. But Francis does not intend to close the door on dialogue with the Fraternity.

     

    Readers will recall that on 13 June 2012, the former Prefect of the Holy Office, Cardinal William Levada, had delivered a doctrinal preamble to Fellay to sign. However, four days later, the Lefebvrian superior wrote a letter to Benedict XVI informing him that he could not agree to the terms laid out in the docuмent. Benedict XVI replied on 30 June 2012 communicating his disappointment and repeating his request to the Lefebvrians to recognize that “the magisterium is the authentic interpreter of the Tradition,” that the Second Vatican Council agrees with Tradition and that the Novus Ordo Missae, the post-conciliar liturgical reform promulgated by Paul VI, was not only valid but also legitimate.
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    Offline Matthew

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    As they say: "Its official" !! (Just a matter of time)
    « Reply #7 on: September 23, 2014, 01:02:32 PM »
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  • So instead of meeting in secret, or "accidentally" running into each other on various occasions, now they're officially "dating".

    Next will be the wedding announcement (practical agreement/deal with Rome).
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    Offline wallflower

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    As they say: "Its official" !! (Just a matter of time)
    « Reply #8 on: September 23, 2014, 01:15:20 PM »
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  • I am not worried about them meeting. In general it seems like that would be a normal thing for Catholic leaders to do.

    It's this "gradual" move that worries me.

    Are we boiling frogs here?  

    Since Bishop Fellay was once willing to put Doctrine on the backburner (isn't there an interview somewhere with these words?) in favor of pursuing a practical accord, it's hard to believe he isn't willing to do so again.

    There were missteps and red flags galore last time, how much do we bet they learned from that and will be much smoother in interviews this time?

    We've already seen that most SSPXers will jump on the practical accord without doctrinal solutions bandwagon anytime they're told to so ... unless Bishop Fellay has had a massive change of heart, it's just a matter of time and they're not afraid to say so.

    On the other hand, if it were "gradual" because Rome needs time to come back to Tradition and clean up the NO mess, well, I'd be all for that.





    Offline Matthew

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    As they say: "Its official" !! (Just a matter of time)
    « Reply #9 on: September 23, 2014, 01:27:49 PM »
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  • The problem is that the SSPX/Rome recently concluded that there were "irreconcilable differences", at least for now, and that the talks needed to be suspended as a result.

    Now, about 18 months later, they announce that they should continue?

    I don't recall Rome converting in the last 18 months...

    So apparently they are aiming for a practical agreement.
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    Offline B from A

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    As they say: "Its official" !! (Just a matter of time)
    « Reply #10 on: September 23, 2014, 02:41:08 PM »
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  • Quote from: wallflower
    I am not worried about them meeting. In general it seems like that would be a normal thing for Catholic leaders to do.

    It's this "gradual" move that worries me.

    Are we boiling frogs here?  

    Since Bishop Fellay was once willing to put Doctrine on the backburner (isn't there an interview somewhere with these words?) in favor of pursuing a practical accord, it's hard to believe he isn't willing to do so again.

    There were missteps and red flags galore last time, how much do we bet they learned from that and will be much smoother in interviews this time?

    We've already seen that most SSPXers will jump on the practical accord without doctrinal solutions bandwagon anytime they're told to so ... unless Bishop Fellay has had a massive change of heart, it's just a matter of time and they're not afraid to say so.

    On the other hand, if it were "gradual" because Rome needs time to come back to Tradition and clean up the NO mess, well, I'd be all for that.



    Your post made me think of this:

    Anyone want to place bets on whether +F said something like this?:

    "Even if you grant ... some autonomy from the bishops, even if you allow us to continue running our seminaries in the manner we are doing it right now [used to] —we cannot work together! It is impossible! Impossible!  Because we are working in diametrically opposing directions.  You are working to de-Christianize society, the human person and the Church, and we are working to Christianize them. We cannot get along together!"





    Offline B from A

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    « Reply #11 on: September 23, 2014, 02:46:16 PM »
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  • Or maybe +F said something like this(?):


    Quote
    June 2, 1988

    The conversations and meetings with Cardinal Ratzinger and his[your] collaborators, although they took place in an atmosphere of courtesy and charity, persuaded us that the moment for a frank and efficacious collaboration between us has not yet arrived.

    For indeed, if the ordinary Christian is authorized to ask the competent Church authorities to preserve for him the Faith of his Baptism, how much more true is that for priests, religious and nuns?

    It is to keep the Faith of our Baptism intact that we have had to resist the spirit of Vatican II and the reforms inspired by it.

    The false ecuмenism which is at the origin of all the Council’s innovations in the liturgy, in the new relationship between the Church and the world, in the conception of the Church itself, is leading the Church to its ruin and Catholics to apostasy.

    Being radically opposed to this destruction of our Faith and determined to remain with the traditional doctrine and discipline of the Church, especially as far as the formation of priests and the religious life is concerned, we find ourselves in the absolute necessity of having ecclesiastical authorities who embrace our concerns and will help us to protect ourselves against the spirit of Vatican II and the spirit of Assisi.

    Given the refusal to consider our requests, and it being evident that the purpose of this reconciliation is not at all the same in the eyes of the Holy See as it is in our eyes, we believe it preferable to wait for times more propitious for the return of Rome to Tradition.

    We shall continue to pray for modern Rome, infested with Modernism, to become once more Catholic Rome and to rediscover its 2,000 year-old tradition. Then the problem of our reconciliation will have no further reason to exist and the Church will experience a new youth.

    Be so good as to accept the expression of my most respectful and filially devoted sentiments in Jesus and Mary.

    Offline Sienna629

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    As they say: "Its official" !! (Just a matter of time)
    « Reply #12 on: September 23, 2014, 04:39:26 PM »
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  • Quote from: wallflower

    On the other hand, if it were "gradual" because Rome needs time to come back to Tradition and clean up the NO mess, well, I'd be all for that.



    That's not the reason it will be gradual...........the reason is because we are dealing with the same Ratzinger/Benedict who admitted that they went too fast with the Novus Ordo and thus alerted ABL to do what he did, and that he (Ratzinger) should have gone much more gradually so as to kill Tradition 40 years ago.

    Offline Sienna629

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    « Reply #13 on: September 23, 2014, 04:42:32 PM »
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  • Quote from:  B from A
    Or maybe +F said something like this(?):


    Quote
    June 2, 1988

    The conversations and meetings with Cardinal Ratzinger and his[your] collaborators, although they took place in an atmosphere of courtesy and charity, persuaded us that the moment for a frank and efficacious collaboration between us has not yet arrived.

    For indeed, if the ordinary Christian is authorized to ask the competent Church authorities to preserve for him the Faith of his Baptism, how much more true is that for priests, religious and nuns?

    It is to keep the Faith of our Baptism intact that we have had to resist the spirit of Vatican II and the reforms inspired by it.

    The false ecuмenism which is at the origin of all the Council’s innovations in the liturgy, in the new relationship between the Church and the world, in the conception of the Church itself, is leading the Church to its ruin and Catholics to apostasy.

    Being radically opposed to this destruction of our Faith and determined to remain with the traditional doctrine and discipline of the Church, especially as far as the formation of priests and the religious life is concerned, we find ourselves in the absolute necessity of having ecclesiastical authorities who embrace our concerns and will help us to protect ourselves against the spirit of Vatican II and the spirit of Assisi.

    Given the refusal to consider our requests, and it being evident that the purpose of this reconciliation is not at all the same in the eyes of the Holy See as it is in our eyes, we believe it preferable to wait for times more propitious for the return of Rome to Tradition.

    We shall continue to pray for modern Rome, infested with Modernism, to become once more Catholic Rome and to rediscover its 2,000 year-old tradition. Then the problem of our reconciliation will have no further reason to exist and the Church will experience a new youth.

    Be so good as to accept the expression of my most respectful and filially devoted sentiments in Jesus and Mary.


    Not a chance!!!

    Offline Ladislaus

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    As they say: "Its official" !! (Just a matter of time)
    « Reply #14 on: September 24, 2014, 08:20:43 AM »
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  • Quote from: Matthew
    So apparently they are aiming for a practical agreement.


    They're working on coming up with an equivocal formula that each side can interpret its own way (or spin it the way they need to for their respective audiences) ... just as with the typical Novus Ordite "joint declarations" between them and various heretical Protestant sects.

    Muller:  "How about we say this?"

    Fellay:  "I can't quite spin this to the SSPX lay people in such a way as to make it look like we're still Traditional."

    Muller:  "OK, how about this?"

    Fellay:  "That's a little better."

    Thus the "gradual progress".

    That's how these "discussions" will proceed.