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Author Topic: Are there still hardliner SSPX priests left?  (Read 8041 times)

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Offline Philothea3

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Are there still hardliner SSPX priests left?
« on: December 04, 2023, 06:05:01 PM »
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  • I believe that I'm not the only one that still goes to the SSPX Masses due to lack of resistance Masses in the area. But I'm afraid that this may not be an option very long with the way SSPX is going right now...? Thus I wonder if anybody still recognises some hardliner priests from SSPX that still hold on to views similar to that of the Resistance? If so can you share his information and why he can be considered a hardliner (opposed to not performing conditional sacraments, etc.)?
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    Offline Plenus Venter

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    Re: Are there still hardliner SSPX priests left?
    « Reply #1 on: December 04, 2023, 06:19:24 PM »
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  • I believe that I'm not the only one that still goes to the SSPX Masses due to lack of resistance Masses in the area. But I'm afraid that this may not be an option very long with the way SSPX is going right now...? Thus I wonder if anybody still recognises some hardliner priests from SSPX that still hold on to views similar to that of the Resistance? If so can you share his information and why he can be considered a hardliner (opposed to not performing conditional sacraments, etc.)?
    That's a tough one, because even the "good" ones have agreed to be silent. I personally think it is more a question of ensuring 1. that the priest you go to is truly a priest, and 2. that there is no danger to the Faith for you or your family e.g. preaching against resisting, preaching liberalism/modernism, trad-ecuмenism with rallying communities...


    Offline ElwinRansom1970

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    Re: Are there still hardliner SSPX priests left?
    « Reply #2 on: December 04, 2023, 07:06:57 PM »
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  • That's a tough one, because even the "good" ones have agreed to be silent. I personally think it is more a question of ensuring 1. that the priest you go to is truly a priest, and 2. that there is no danger to the Faith for you or your family e.g. preaching against resisting, preaching liberalism/modernism, trad-ecuмenism with rallying communities...
    I worry about the #1 mentioned above should Huonder start performing ordinations for the SSPX.
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    Offline Plenus Venter

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    Re: Are there still hardliner SSPX priests left?
    « Reply #3 on: December 04, 2023, 07:31:18 PM »
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  • I worry about the #1 mentioned above should Huonder start performing ordinations for the SSPX.
    Good point, Elwin, we now also have to ask the question of the priests "who consecrated your holy oils" to ensure valid confirmation and extreme unction. It's getting uglier...

    Offline AnthonyPadua

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    Re: Are there still hardliner SSPX priests left?
    « Reply #4 on: December 04, 2023, 11:07:50 PM »
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  • Good point, Elwin, we now also have to ask the question of the priests "who consecrated your holy oils" to ensure valid confirmation and extreme unction. It's getting uglier...
    Did huonder consecrate the oils coming from Econe?


    Offline Plenus Venter

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    Re: Are there still hardliner SSPX priests left?
    « Reply #5 on: December 05, 2023, 05:08:10 AM »
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  • Did huonder consecrate the oils coming from Econe?
    He consecrated the oils at the seminary in Zaitzkofen, Germany, so the simple answer to that question is no. There would have almost certainly been a bishop consecrating oils in the seminary in Econe, Switzerland, presumably Bishop Tissier, but I can't be sure of that.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Are there still hardliner SSPX priests left?
    « Reply #6 on: December 05, 2023, 06:09:55 AM »
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  • I personally think it is more a question of ensuring 1. that the priest you go to is truly a priest ...

    And wasn't this one of the top points of contention by The Nine?  It most certainly was.  So why is it OK for you and other Resistance types to deride The Nine for having the same problem with Lefebvre's acceptance (and imposition) of Stark?

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Are there still hardliner SSPX priests left?
    « Reply #7 on: December 05, 2023, 06:13:27 AM »
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  • I worry about the #1 mentioned above should Huonder start performing ordinations for the SSPX.

    We'd have to keep track of which priests were "ordained" by Huonder and avoid them.  While that might be simple enough, there's a recurring problem even right now where some NO priests are operating in the US without having been conditionally ordained, and the SSPX are not particularly public about which priests have been conditionally ordained and which haven't.  Now, there used to be a little booklet listing all the SSPX priests and whom they were ordained by, but you can't find any such information today.  I know that my brother Steve kept a copy to consult when various unknown priests would show up at STAS.  I recall in particular when a Father? Belland showed up at STAS and started offering Mass at the main altar.  Steve did find out from a sacristan that he had set up Bishop Williamson's chapel (Our Lady's chapel on the second floor) for an ordination, and he found out that Fr. Belland had been conditionally ordained, but it was not publicized.


    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Are there still hardliner SSPX priests left?
    « Reply #8 on: December 05, 2023, 06:32:27 AM »
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  • And wasn't this one of the top points of contention by The Nine?  It most certainly was.  So why is it OK for you and other Resistance types to deride The Nine for having the same problem with Lefebvre's acceptance (and imposition) of Stark?
    The hypocrisy by the Resistance posters here about this issue is glaring.  The Nine had nothing to resist (how dare those evil monsters!), but the Resistance does!


    Offline Plenus Venter

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    Re: Are there still hardliner SSPX priests left?
    « Reply #9 on: December 05, 2023, 08:52:41 PM »
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  • And wasn't this one of the top points of contention by The Nine?  It most certainly was.  So why is it OK for you and other Resistance types to deride The Nine for having the same problem with Lefebvre's acceptance (and imposition) of Stark?
    Obviously, the Resistance is defending the traditional principle of Archbishop Lefebvre and the SSPX. The Nine were attacking it. 

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Are there still hardliner SSPX priests left?
    « Reply #10 on: December 05, 2023, 08:58:19 PM »
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  • Obviously, the Resistance is defending the traditional principle of Archbishop Lefebvre and the SSPX. The Nine were attacking it.

    :facepalm: What's the "traditional principle"?  Please explain.

    It's clear that The Nine were objecting to most of the same things that the Resistance are now objecting to.  Archbishop Lefebvre was clearly in compromise mode in the early 1980s.


    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Are there still hardliner SSPX priests left?
    « Reply #11 on: December 05, 2023, 09:07:06 PM »
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  • Archbishop Lefebvre was clearly in compromise mode in the early 1980s.

    That is quite open for debate.

    First of all, define "compromise" in this specific context. What exactly are you accusing +ABL of? Let's define our terms.

    Your own hardline/sedevacantist stance has colored your view of the rather distant past -- 30 or 40 years is a good chunk of time, in terms of human lifespan.

    Treating with the Pope, we're talking about the Vicar of Christ here, when no one had been betrayed yet, is not compromise. "Someone had to try". Afterwards, YES, you should know better. We have since sounded the depths of the Crisis in the past several decades, and now any person with their eyes open is blackpilled about the Modernists and the state of the Conciliar Church in Rome. Most sane men today think only God is going to be able to sort it out. But that was not the situation in 1983. The Crisis was still young!

    Going back to see if any of your house is still there, in the days following a massive wildfire, isn't crazy.
    Going back 40 years later, long after the wildfire burned the entire town and it's common knowledge -- THAT would be crazy.

    +ABL did the former, Bp. Fellay did the latter. There is no comparison in the actions of the two men.

    Action X done in 1983 might not be compromise, whereas the same action X done in 2012 would be the most craven and cowardly of compromises. It's all about the circuмstances.

    Just like packing up the family and moving 1,000 miles could be the peak of wisdom and prudence for one family, but the height of folly for another family. The CIRcuмSTANCES define whether an action was prudent or foolish, and a wise action or a craven, foolish "compromise" with error/evil.
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    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Are there still hardliner SSPX priests left?
    « Reply #12 on: December 05, 2023, 09:25:56 PM »
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  • The hypocrisy by the Resistance posters here about this issue is glaring.  The Nine had nothing to resist (how dare those evil monsters!), but the Resistance does!

    Yes, because 1983 is absolutely the same year as 2012 or 2023. ::)

    Those years are so similar, I don't know why we even refer to them using different numbers...

    The year, the situation, doesn't matter. You'd make a great stock trader! Buying Apple stock in 1995 is the same as buying it in 2023... right?

    https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/AAPL/apple/stock-price-history
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Are there still hardliner SSPX priests left?
    « Reply #13 on: December 05, 2023, 09:42:55 PM »
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  • That is quite open for debate.

    First of all, define "compromise" in this specific context. What exactly are you accusing +ABL of? Let's define our terms.

    He famously said at the time that he was asking Rome to allow him to make the "experiment of Tradition" within the Conciliar framework.  I believe that this influenced him to take the positions he did regarding the issues raised by The Nine, Conciliar orders, annulments, and the 1962 Missal.  He was not as strict on those issues before about 1980 nor after 1985.  Conditional Ordinations were done as a matter of course outside of that timeframe and the SSPX did start examining NO annulments.

    Offline AnthonyPadua

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    Re: Are there still hardliner SSPX priests left?
    « Reply #14 on: December 05, 2023, 09:50:37 PM »
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  • He famously said at the time that he was asking Rome to allow him to make the "experiment of Tradition" within the Conciliar framework.  I believe that this influenced him to take the positions he did regarding the issues raised by The Nine, Conciliar orders, annulments, and the 1962 Missal.  He was not as strict on those issues before about 1980 nor after 1985.  Conditional Ordinations were done as a matter of course outside of that timeframe and the SSPX did start examining NO annulments.
    I root issue was that the Archbishop had issues with EENS due to invincible ignorance and BoD/BoB.