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Author Topic: +Vigano Calls Francis "Heretical Tyrant on the Chair"  (Read 3565 times)

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Online 2Vermont

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Re: +Vigano Calls Francis "Heretical Tyrant on the Chair"
« Reply #30 on: January 20, 2023, 11:50:46 AM »
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  • Not everybody goes from Traditionalist to sedevacantist in one day, and the derision from the arrogant dogmatic SVs here because he hasn't declared the See vacant is entirely uncalled for.

    +Lefebvre also never declared the See vacant, for the same reason, that he "preferred to wait" (his words), and I don't see anywhere near the same derision for him as some here have consistently shown for +Vigano.  +Vigano is clearly in "prefer to wait" mode.

    Perhaps encouragenemt and support would do much more to persuade him to come out as an SV than the constant derision and contempt he gets.
    Oh so now we're "arrogant dogmatic sedes" eh?  Just because we're not on board with your pet "bishop". Get lost Lad.

    Offline DecemRationis

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    Re: +Vigano Calls Francis "Heretical Tyrant on the Chair"
    « Reply #31 on: January 20, 2023, 11:53:20 AM »
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  • But equally correct is that he's never rejected it either.  I've not read a single affirmation from him that he thinks Bergoglio IS the true pope.  He's called for an investigation, believes the "prelates of the Church" have to make the determination, etc. ... but he clearly has serious doubts about Bergoglio, but is just prescinding from making some kind of statement to that effect, which he seems to believe is not within his rights to do.

    He also clearly refers to the recently deceased pope as "Pope Benedict XVI." He is "besmirching Holy Mother Church" or however you call it?
    Rom. 3:25 Whom God hath proposed to be a propitiation, through faith in his blood, to the shewing of his justice, for the remission of former sins" 

    Apoc 17:17 For God hath given into their hearts to do that which pleaseth him: that they give their kingdom to the beast, till the words of God be fulfilled.


    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: +Vigano Calls Francis "Heretical Tyrant on the Chair"
    « Reply #32 on: January 20, 2023, 11:59:17 AM »
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  • Lad,

    Those are incredibly strong words. You generally show support for Vigano, so let me ask you: how is Sean's position, which according to you blasphemes and commits heresy regarding the Church, different from Vigano's?

    I asked you in earlier to identify anywhere in Vigano's writings where he goes into the issue of a papal "vacancy" or, now I ask a bit differently, show us where he even entertains the necessity of considering Francis an antipope or non-pope, an issue which for you is essential to retaining the integrity of "Holy Mother Church"? I don't think you'll find it.

    In fact, Vigano repeatedly talks of "Pope Bergolio" and recognizes the authority of the Conciliar hierarchy, I guess without (apparently) besmirching and prostituting Holy Mother Church as you say Sean does. Here's just a sample:

    As Our Lord recognized the legitimate authority of the Pharisees in the "seat of Moses" while calling them "whited sepulchers" who made "void the word of God," so Vigano does the Conciliar hierarchy while decrying its heresies and apostasy. And Sean does the same.

    Is Vigano besmirching Holy Mother Church as Sean does? If not, why not?

    This is a continuing, bizarre theme with you - attacking those who identify with an R & R position as Old Catholics, etc. - that keeps bumping into contradiction after contradiction.





     


    Thanks for saving me the legwork, DR.
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: +Vigano Calls Francis "Heretical Tyrant on the Chair"
    « Reply #33 on: January 20, 2023, 12:04:45 PM »
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  • I know for a fact that he has called him "Pope Bergolio," without putting the pope in quotation marks. He has also called him Francis, much more than once, and probably pope Francis, but that has to be checked.

    He also refers to him as the Vicar of Christ and the Roman Pontiff.
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline DecemRationis

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    Re: +Vigano Calls Francis "Heretical Tyrant on the Chair"
    « Reply #34 on: January 20, 2023, 12:09:05 PM »
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  • Lad,

    Without even starting any detailed research, I just looked at the last Vigano letter on the linked site, his letter to "the Holy See" of October 18, 2022:



    Quote
    The imposition of the experimental serum took place through a coordinated employment of methods that was unprecedented in recent history, using mass manipulation techniques that are well known to psychology experts. In this operation of media terrorism and the violation of the natural rights of individuals, accompanied by intolerable blackmail and discrimination, the Catholic Hierarchy chose to take sides with the system, making itself the promoter of “vaccines,” even reaching the point of recommending them as a “moral duty.” The media skillfully used the spiritual authority of the Roman Pontiff and his media influence to confirm the mainstream narrative, and this was an essential element in the success of the entire vaccination campaign, convincing many of the faithful to undergo inoculation because of the trust they have placed in the Pope and his global role.

    https://www.catholicity.com/vigano/2022-10-18.html

    What "Catholic Hierachy" and "Roman Pontiff" (and note the caps as well) do you think he's referring to?

    DR


    Rom. 3:25 Whom God hath proposed to be a propitiation, through faith in his blood, to the shewing of his justice, for the remission of former sins" 

    Apoc 17:17 For God hath given into their hearts to do that which pleaseth him: that they give their kingdom to the beast, till the words of God be fulfilled.


    Offline DecemRationis

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    Re: +Vigano Calls Francis "Heretical Tyrant on the Chair"
    « Reply #35 on: January 20, 2023, 12:11:55 PM »
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  • He also refers to him as the Vicar of Christ and the Roman Pontiff.

    Right. 
    Rom. 3:25 Whom God hath proposed to be a propitiation, through faith in his blood, to the shewing of his justice, for the remission of former sins" 

    Apoc 17:17 For God hath given into their hearts to do that which pleaseth him: that they give their kingdom to the beast, till the words of God be fulfilled.

    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: +Vigano Calls Francis "Heretical Tyrant on the Chair"
    « Reply #36 on: January 20, 2023, 12:14:10 PM »
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  • Not everybody goes from Traditionalist to sedevacantist in one day, and the derision from the arrogant dogmatic SVs here because he hasn't declared the See vacant is entirely uncalled for.
    Call the kettle black much?
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline DecemRationis

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    Re: +Vigano Calls Francis "Heretical Tyrant on the Chair"
    « Reply #37 on: January 20, 2023, 12:19:42 PM »
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  • Perhaps encouragenemt and support would do much more to persuade him to come out as an SV than the constant derision and contempt he gets.

    Perhaps he's never read those encyclicals you quote, or the CE on the Church's indefectibility.

    Why don't you send him a link?

    Rom. 3:25 Whom God hath proposed to be a propitiation, through faith in his blood, to the shewing of his justice, for the remission of former sins" 

    Apoc 17:17 For God hath given into their hearts to do that which pleaseth him: that they give their kingdom to the beast, till the words of God be fulfilled.


    Offline Quo vadis Domine

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    Re: +Vigano Calls Francis "Heretical Tyrant on the Chair"
    « Reply #38 on: January 20, 2023, 02:07:59 PM »
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  • He should also get consecrated so he is actually a certainly true Bishop.


    Point well taken!
    For what doth it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his own soul? Or what exchange shall a man give for his soul?

    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: +Vigano Calls Francis "Heretical Tyrant on the Chair"
    « Reply #39 on: January 20, 2023, 02:36:06 PM »
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  • .

    Vigano has never promoted or even espoused sedevacantism.


    If the faithful believed the Seat was vacant, it would undermine the Opus Dei’s prelature and secret operations.
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: +Vigano Calls Francis "Heretical Tyrant on the Chair"
    « Reply #40 on: January 20, 2023, 03:54:27 PM »
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  • If the faithful believed the Seat was vacant, it would undermine the Opus Dei’s prelature and secret operations.

    More of this mental problem?  :facepalm: