I on the other hand, have found that there are actually many men among the laity that could do a far better job than the clergy at doing the job of the priest. These laity could deliver better sermons, attract men to mass, be better managers of the operations, educate the laity better, and the children as well.

Here comes Bowler mowing down clergy and priests collectively once again. "The laity would do sooo much better of a job than those idiot priests."

Is this not unrefined Protestantism?

Wow, words escape me over such a stupid post as this...

"I on the other hand, have found that there are actually many men among the laity that could do a far better job than the clergy at doing the job of the priest. These laity could deliver better sermons, attract men to mass, be better managers of the operations, educate the laity better, and the children as well."

 Save this gem and read it back to yourself in 20 years. Hopefully you can
say you were a success in your own vocation at that time and not be full
of that shame which you should have right now. Wow.

I happened to catch a few minutes of NewChurch mouthpiece Al Kresta last year while flipping stations on my radio.  He was struggling to rationalize the actions of Francis during WYD.  He made a statement about how the LAITY had to step up and rebuild the Church.  

Very interesting.

The clergy wants to blame the laity for its incompetence and the fact that the RCC grows more dysfunctional by the microsecond.

A convenient scapegoat- just blame the people who pay you to do your job.

Quote from: waugh

Wow, words escape me over such a stupid post as this...

"I on the other hand, have found that there are actually many men among the laity that could do a far better job than the clergy at doing the job of the priest. These laity could deliver better sermons, attract men to mass, be better managers of the operations, educate the laity better, and the children as well."

 Save this gem and read it back to yourself in 20 years. Hopefully you can
say you were a success in your own vocation at that time and not be full
of that shame which you should have right now. Wow.

What do you expect from a heretic that denies papal teaching on invincible ignorance? I'm wondering how he manages to even slip into the "resistance" crowd with his morphed Feenyite heretical views.

Why not focus in this particular post, instead of bringing sourful remarks that belong to other threads? What " Resistance" crowd you speak of?  I thought that cathinfo was a place for all traditional Catholics to discuss matters pertaining to the Faith.

Wow, words escape me over such a stupid post as this...

"I on the other hand, have found that there are actually many men among the laity that could do a far better job than the clergy at doing the job of the priest. These laity could deliver better sermons, attract men to mass, be better managers of the operations, educate the laity better, and the children as well."

 Save this gem and read it back to yourself in 20 years. Hopefully you can
say you were a success in your own vocation at that time and not be full
of that shame which you should have right now. Wow.

From the quote that you chose of what I wrote, and your 100% disagreement (" full of that shame which you should have right now") with what I wrote, I must conclude that to you, ALL priests can give better sermons, attract men to mass, be better managers of the operations, educate the laity and children better than the few in the laity that I pointed out? You'll pardon me for asking, but what planet have you been on the last almost 50 years?

And by the way, I could have greater success in my vocation as a father, if I had priests to help with my work. Instead, I have to be avoiding the priests to be able to do my job properly. In other words, I'm better off without 95% of the priests out there.

Your assumptive response is a sophomoric conclusion. With over 2700 posts perhaps it is not the priests you should be avoiding to "have better success in you vocation as a father."
The shame I am referring to is in regard to your ignorance as to what the life of a priest is and the huge sacrifice it entails. No matter their individual qualities; or lack thereof, they have given their lives for people like you and me, in lieu of other earthly consolations, and to say the things you did shows a total lack of understanding and pride.
May you pray for and receive the grace of God to have a priest available at your time of death, as they certainly have been given the power to forgive all your sins and to prepare you to meet God face to face. That has always been the case on this planet, even for the past 50 years.

From my observation in my SSPX chapel and also Menzingen's attitude toward the laity,  I have concluded two things,

1)A large percentage among the laity, are ignorant by convenience and thus are totally subcontracting their faith to the priest. Need to know something? Go ask Father X, forget it three minutes later. You want your children to be Catholic, subcontract it to the SSPX schools.

2) It would appear that Menzingen and Neo-SSPX priests are taught that the laity are all ignorant, and should be taught the minimal teaching just to keep them obedient to whatever the priest says. It is the children that should be molded from a young age to whatever the priest want them to be.

I on the other hand, have found that there are actually many men among the laity that could do a far better job than the clergy at doing the job of the priest. These laity could deliver better sermons, attract men to mass, be better managers of the operations, educate the laity better, and the children as well.

In the general population, I would guess of the top of my head that only about 15% of the persons are born leaders. I contend that the reality today is that the priests of the SSPX are actually inferior as leaders of men, compared with  laity leaders. Therefore, this Neo-SSPX attitude of "superiority" of the clergy, is a myth today. A priest that lords himself over the laity may in effect be shooting himself in the foot, in other words, not carrying out his job properly.

bowler,

I kind of get what you're saying and share some of your frustrations, but am having some trouble with the way your are framing the issue.

There is no doubt that some of us in the laity definitely ARE better at doing certain things than the traditional priests or religious we may encounter. Maybe we think we can speak or pronounce Latin better than they do. Maybe some of us are just better ("natural born") analysts or theologians than some of our counterparts answering a divine vocation. The possibilities are endless.

Defects and deficiencies (serious or otherwise) we will always find or find a way to find in our priests and religious. There too, the possibilities are endless.

That said, God called them to their divine vocation. He did not call you and me (assuming you are a married man like I am).

Yes, there are moments of frustration when I'm tempted to think  I could do "this" or "that" way better than Father could or be more exact and forceful about a point of doctrine or discipline. All the same, God in His infinite wisdom chose that "imperfect" and "defective" instrument for some reason and not me.

By this discussion, I am reminded that Christ Himself chose fishermen (indeed, unlikely candidates in the estimation of the world) to be His disciples and not the educated and intellectually "ready to roll" scribes and Pharisees.      

For myself, I banish whatever suggestion that comes to mind pitting a priest's natural style or talent against my own. Such is nothing more than foolish pride disguised as some worthy analysis. If only our spiritual eyes could see what dignified state these ambassadors of Christ bear! The most "horrible" of priests in our estimate remains higher than the angels in dignity! Who am I to think myself more "qualified" or more "deserving"? It is Christ, after all, who gives out the marching orders. We do not take it upon ourselves. Some, He calls to the frontlines. Others like myself, he calls to man the amo factory--even if we might think to ourselves that we would make superior infantrymen.

So be it that Father so-and-so has defects, is not always discreet with unverified news items, and isn't doing "this" or "that" right. I will not make the grave mistake of asking, "Why him and not me, instead?" The Owner of the vineyard had His reasons. The pay that I got is more than enough for me. I am happy with it because that's what God wanted me to have--nothing more; nothing less.

Resist and fight fiercely against modernism and the priests in the Neo-SSPX who have allowed themselves to go along with Menzingen's evil agenda. Don't yield an inch! In fact, we owe them our fierce resistance and "disobedience."

In all this, though, let us not fall into the devil's trap of putting down their dignified priestly state or, in effect, questioning God's wisdom in ever having chosen them. We then fall into pride. Let us therefore keep focused, just fight, resist, and stick to our traditional Catholic principles and not be sidetracked by these dangerously prideful suggestions from the devil.

I am perfectly at peace knowing that "the very least" of these modernist priests are far higher and greater in dignity than I could ever hope to be. That said, I will carryout my duties as a soldier of the Resistance all the same.

The lowly, disposable sparkplug in the engine functions at its best doing what it does best as a sparkplug. Trouble happens when this sparkplug starts ideating about whether it would have made a better piston or main bearing.