Author Topic: ++Vigano Studying Fr. Alvaro Calderon (SSPX)!  (Read 850 times)

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Offline Meg

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Re: ++Vigano Studying Fr. Alvaro Calderon (SSPX)!
« Reply #15 on: September 19, 2020, 07:41:02 AM »
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  • Meg has a different conclusion from the French Resistance, which is retold in Nonpossumus blog: http://nonpossumus-vcr.blogspot.com/2020/09/mons-vigano-y-mons-fellay.html

    Below is an excerpt translated from French to Spanish then to English;

    Indeed, from now on, Bishop Viganò does not encourage the clergy or the congregations with which he is in contact to legally submit to a council authority. This is what he wrote to a friend of ours who thought he could find a canonical solution with Rome or any diocese:

    The information you quote/provide is not publicly sourced. It is hearsay. There isn't any way to actually verify that +Vigano holds to the positions stated.

    I can understand why a sede (such as yourself) would accept this as fact, but I do not. Until it can be verified, that is.
    "This forum is a space for discussion to defend the Catholic Faith following Monsignor Marcel Lefebvre. It is therefore not for rallying to the conciliar church nor for sedevacantism"
    - From the French Resistance forum (Francophone forum, in France)

    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: ++Vigano Studying Fr. Alvaro Calderon (SSPX)!
    « Reply #16 on: September 19, 2020, 10:49:37 AM »
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  • It is all very interesting that Bp. Vigano, Marshall Taylor, Bp. Schneider, Michael Voris and even Donald Trump are converting to Traditional Catholicism  
    :popcorn:

    Like St. Paul, may their sincere “pilgrimages of grace” continue.

    But for we, the beleaguered & betrayed Trad remnant, more specific statements are needed to trust these media converts.

    They must publicly state WHO has hijacked the Holy Roman Catholic Church and specifically WHO is running the visible Church now?

    And the clear answers to these questions are: Judeo-masonry and Opus judei.

    Until these clerics and pundits speak these words WE, will never trust them.

    In fact, “We resistance” trust Pax Vobis & Meg far more, for their prudent suspicions of these men.
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi


    Offline Mr G

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    Re: ++Vigano Studying Fr. Alvaro Calderon (SSPX)!
    « Reply #17 on: September 19, 2020, 11:34:18 AM »
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  • The information you quote/provide is not publicly sourced. It is hearsay. There isn't any way to actually verify that +Vigano holds to the positions stated.

    Actually there is, you can go here and see if you can contact "Joseph" and ask him to show proof of the letter/e-mail of both Archbishop Vigano and the other letter from Bishop Fellay commenting on the Archbishop's letter. https://resistance.vraiforum.com/t1251-Mgr-VIGANO-et-Mgr-FELLAY.htm

    Offline Meg

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    Re: ++Vigano Studying Fr. Alvaro Calderon (SSPX)!
    « Reply #18 on: September 19, 2020, 11:44:53 AM »
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  • Actually there is, you can go here and see if you can contact "Joseph" and ask him to show proof of the letter/e-mail of both Archbishop Vigano and the other letter from Bishop Fellay commenting on the Archbishop's letter. https://resistance.vraiforum.com/t1251-Mgr-VIGANO-et-Mgr-FELLAY.htm

    I've tried to join the French Resistance forum in the past, and was unable to do so. Therefore, I'm pretty sure that I won't be able to contact Joseph.

    In any case, why isn't +Vigano clear in his communications? After all, the SAJM are clear in their communications as to where they stand.
    "This forum is a space for discussion to defend the Catholic Faith following Monsignor Marcel Lefebvre. It is therefore not for rallying to the conciliar church nor for sedevacantism"
    - From the French Resistance forum (Francophone forum, in France)

    Offline Meg

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    Re: ++Vigano Studying Fr. Alvaro Calderon (SSPX)!
    « Reply #19 on: September 19, 2020, 11:47:17 AM »
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  • It is all very interesting that Bp. Vigano, Marshall Taylor, Bp. Schneider, Michael Voris and even Donald Trump are converting to Traditional Catholicism  
    :popcorn:

    Like St. Paul, may their sincere “pilgrimages of grace” continue.

    But for we, the beleaguered & betrayed Trad remnant, more specific statements are needed to trust these media converts.

    They must publicly state WHO has hijacked the Holy Roman Catholic Church and specifically WHO is running the visible Church now?

    And the clear answers to these questions are: Judeo-masonry and Opus judei.

    Until these clerics and pundits speak these words WE, will never trust them.

    In fact, “We resistance” trust Pax Vobis & Meg far more, for their prudent suspicions of these men.

    Well said.
    "This forum is a space for discussion to defend the Catholic Faith following Monsignor Marcel Lefebvre. It is therefore not for rallying to the conciliar church nor for sedevacantism"
    - From the French Resistance forum (Francophone forum, in France)


    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: ++Vigano Studying Fr. Alvaro Calderon (SSPX)!
    « Reply #20 on: September 19, 2020, 12:57:22 PM »
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  • It is all very interesting that Bp. Vigano, Marshall Taylor, Bp. Schneider, Michael Voris and even Donald Trump are converting to Traditional Catholicism  
    :popcorn:

    Like St. Paul, may their sincere “pilgrimages of grace” continue.

    But for we, the beleaguered & betrayed Trad remnant, more specific statements are needed to trust these media converts.

    They must publicly state WHO has hijacked the Holy Roman Catholic Church and specifically WHO is running the visible Church now?

    And the clear answers to these questions are: Judeo-masonry and Opus judei.

    Until these clerics and pundits speak these words WE, will never trust them.

    In fact, “We resistance” trust Pax Vobis & Meg far more, for their prudent suspicions of these men.

    Except that Vigano is not in the same class as any of those others you mentioned:

    They are all conciliarists, while Vigano clearly rejects conciliarism.

    The rest of this post is unsubstantiated speculation and/or nonsense:

    When I hear BW or the Resistance clergy raise these (stupid) suspicions, I might tap the brakes.

    But it seems the usual suspects here (none of whom are resistance) have chowder between the ears.

    I am content to let them continue lathering each other up:

    Two Feeneyites and a indulter are suspicious.

    Nuff said.
    Romans 5:20 "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    -I retract any and all statements I have made that are incongruent with the True Faith, and apologize for ever having made them-

    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: ++Vigano Studying Fr. Alvaro Calderon (SSPX)!
    « Reply #21 on: September 19, 2020, 01:53:52 PM »
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  • +W’s American spokesman, a man from the land of the Loons, 10 thousand lakes and 10 billion mosquitoes doesn’t like pushback.  

    And he tries to dispatch our doubts with chowder  :laugh1:

    Setting aside Valtorta and the new mass for now, what would be amazingly fun is to hold a trad conference in Minnesota with +W and his resistance clergy on the topic of EENS.

    The ducking & jiving emanating from that conference would make even Bp. Fellay blush red.
    :jester:
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: ++Vigano Studying Fr. Alvaro Calderon (SSPX)!
    « Reply #22 on: September 19, 2020, 02:45:48 PM »
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  • Quote
    When I hear BW or the Resistance clergy raise these (stupid) suspicions, I might tap the brakes.

    Because you can't think for yourself.


    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: ++Vigano Studying Fr. Alvaro Calderon (SSPX)!
    « Reply #23 on: September 19, 2020, 02:57:25 PM »
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  • Quote
    They must publicly state WHO has hijacked the Holy Roman Catholic Church and specifically WHO is running the visible Church now?

    And the clear answers to these questions are: Judeo-masonry and Opus judei.

    To be fair, +Vigano has mentioned Masonry multiple times, and that is good.  I definitely think he sees problems in the Church.  I'm just questioning if he sees ALL the problems and if he understands HOW FAR BACK these issues go (i.e. 1800s).  And if he doesn't have the whole picture, then it's only logical to question his "solutions", which to date, have been good generally, but specifically lacking.  I'm not blaming him, for it's not his job to solve everything.  
    .
    In my opinion, the solution to the crisis is 1) wait for God to give us a holy pope, 2) while waiting, keep doing what we're doing, Trad wise.  Mass, sacraments, rosaries.  That's all Tradition can do.  Keep the Faith alive.  
    .
    Vigano's overtures to the sspx raise alarm bells.  Not because the sspx shouldn't be praised for their hard work, but because there's no reason to single them out.  There's no reason for the sspx to change anything - they should just keep working for the Faith (but I'm afraid the barn door is already open on this issue).  And because we all know the sspx is hell-bent on re-joining new-rome, then Vigano's remarks are problematic.  For he is basically arguing that 1) He's a cleric in "communion with" new rome, 2) He only says the TLM, 3) he recognizes that V2 is totally wrong and he says that 4) liturgical abuses should be avoided.  
    .
    This thinking logically leads to the conclusion, "If +Vigano can be a Trad in "communion with" new-rome, and totally reject V2, and ignore the bad liturgy, why can't we?"  This is the danger.

    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: ++Vigano Studying Fr. Alvaro Calderon (SSPX)!
    « Reply #24 on: September 19, 2020, 03:16:40 PM »
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  • To be fair, +Vigano has mentioned Masonry multiple times, and that is good.  I definitely think he sees problems in the Church.  I'm just questioning if he sees ALL the problems and if he understands HOW FAR BACK these issues go (i.e. 1800s).  And if he doesn't have the whole picture, then it's only logical to question his "solutions", which to date, have been good generally, but specifically lacking.  I'm not blaming him, for it's not his job to solve everything.  
    .
    In my opinion, the solution to the crisis is 1) wait for God to give us a holy pope, 2) while waiting, keep doing what we're doing, Trad wise.  Mass, sacraments, rosaries.  That's all Tradition can do.  Keep the Faith alive.  
    .
    Vigano's overtures to the sspx raise alarm bells.  Not because the sspx shouldn't be praised for their hard work, but because there's no reason to single them out.  There's no reason for the sspx to change anything - they should just keep working for the Faith (but I'm afraid the barn door is already open on this issue).  And because we all know the sspx is hell-bent on re-joining new-rome, then Vigano's remarks are problematic.  For he is basically arguing that 1) He's a cleric in "communion with" new rome, 2) He only says the TLM, 3) he recognizes that V2 is totally wrong and he says that 4) liturgical abuses should be avoided.  
    .
    This thinking logically leads to the conclusion, "If +Vigano can be a Trad in "communion with" new-rome, and totally reject V2, and ignore the bad liturgy, why can't we?"  This is the danger.

    None of the Catholic media pundits will speak about the jews or Opus judei?

    That's their credibility problem.

    Consider, the grand dame of Talmudic justice, who died yesterday, caused our nation's social media to celebrate, playing, "Ding Dong the Witch is Dead" for 48 Hrs. and counting.

    It means even non Catholics know the problem.   Any supposed leader of the Truth must demonstrate he knows it too.
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi


     

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