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Author Topic: Archbishop Viganò to Sandro Magister: "We should forget Vatican II"  (Read 1753 times)

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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Archbishop Viganò to Sandro Magister: "We should forget Vatican II"
« Reply #10 on: July 10, 2020, 07:33:09 AM »
Quote from: 2Vermont on July 10, 2020, 06:56:21 AM
Then at the very least he still thinks Benedict was a valid pope despite his criticism of his "hermeneutic of continuity".  I do hope you are correct that this latest communique is hopeful.  I am nowhere near as hopeful.  

Yes, it's obvious at this point he considered Benedict a valid pope.  He's also made it clear that he still considers Vatican II to be a legitimate Ecuмenical Council, despite its having been at the same time a "devil's council".  Not sure how this squares with Traditional Catholic ecclesiology.  Actually, I am sure ... it does not.  No, he's sliding straight into a strong R&R.

Really, the only thing I saw as hopeful here was Magister's rebuke of this very problem.  You can't say that a legitimate Ecuмenical Council of the Catholic Church should be jettisoned.  If he were to ever take Magister's criticisms to heart along with his conviction that V2 was not Catholic, me might wake up to what's actually going on.  He talks about the Church being taken over by Masons and a parallel church being set up ... and yet he won't entertain the possibility that the V2 papal claimants have been deliberate co-conspirators in said takeover.
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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Archbishop Viganò to Sandro Magister: "We should forget Vatican II"
« Reply #11 on: July 10, 2020, 07:35:48 AM »
Quote from: DecemRationis on July 07, 2020, 10:13:48 AM
This is why I think we are in the endgame. If there were a restoration along the lines of Schneider's (or Vigano's right now - but I think he's not done yet) "throw it out" and "forget it," why would anyone yield obedience to the Magisterium and trust it anymore? Hey, those guys (the restorers) could be in error themselves, and perhaps they'll be reversed down the road yet again. And on and on.

Yes, this is the R&R conundrum.  If a legitimate Ecuмenical Council approved by a legitimate Pope could be wrong about, say, Religious Liberty, then how can we be sure that it wasn't Pius IX who got it wrong when he condemned it.  R&R thinking destroys the Magisterium and makes it utterly useless apart from a handful of relatively-rare dogmatic definitions.
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Offline BTNYC

Re: Archbishop Viganò to Sandro Magister: "We should forget Vatican II"
« Reply #12 on: July 10, 2020, 09:00:53 AM »
Quote from: DecemRationis on July 07, 2020, 10:13:48 AM
Yes. "Forget it" is very bad theology (talk about a euphemism!), and makes a mockery of what the Church has said about herself and her indefectibility. If she could be wrong about that . . .

This is why I think we are in the endgame. If there were a restoration along the lines of Schneider's (or Vigano's right now - but I think he's not done yet) "throw it out" and "forget it," why would anyone yield obedience to the Magisterium and trust it anymore? Hey, those guys (the restorers) could be in error themselves, and perhaps they'll be reversed down the road yet again. And on and on.

Perhaps a last, true pope could come along and address the issue squarely in terms of the indefectibility of the Church, identify the usurpation and the square it up with the prophecies of Scripture and the anomaly and strangeness of the eclipse (and surface contradiction with the Church's indefectibility) and and say something like, "we've lived through the Great Apostasy and the NT Church's exile in Babylon, and Our Lord's return is imminent."

As Struthio says, we've apparently reached the "consummation of the age." And it's the last age. God have mercy.

Good points.

The infiltration of the Church in the 20th Century is also so intimately and inextricably intertwined with the entire Globalist program / NWO (what John McCain of unhappy memory lovingly called "the Post-World War II Order"), that there would be no way to expose and explain the Church's subversion without exposing the entire ʝʊdɛօ-Masonic takeover of all of the world's governing, financial, media and commercial bodies.

If the Great Catholic Monarch had arrived on the scene, it might be conceivable, but short of that, I can't see it happening.
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Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: Archbishop Viganò to Sandro Magister: "We should forget Vatican II"
« Reply #13 on: July 10, 2020, 09:40:02 AM »
Quote
Forget it?
In his other letter, he said that V2 should be condemned as the "robber council" was.  So, his use of "forget it" is an informal expression.  Let's not get bent of out shape if he's not theologically precise 100% of time.  The obvious gist of what he's saying about V2 is consistent across all his writings/interviews.
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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Archbishop Viganò to Sandro Magister: "We should forget Vatican II"
« Reply #14 on: July 10, 2020, 11:14:55 AM »
Quote from: Pax Vobis on July 10, 2020, 09:40:02 AM
In his other letter, he said that V2 should be condemned as the "robber council" was.  So, his use of "forget it" is an informal expression.  Let's not get bent of out shape if he's not theologically precise 100% of time.  The obvious gist of what he's saying about V2 is consistent across all his writings/interviews.

He went further and called it a "devilish Council".
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