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Author Topic: Archbishop Vigano regarding Archbishop Lefebvre  (Read 713 times)

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Offline Catholic Knight

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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Archbishop Vigano regarding Archbishop Lefebvre
« Reply #1 on: March 25, 2024, 08:59:52 AM »
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  • It's great to see this.


    Offline ElwinRansom1970

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    • γνῶθι σεαυτόν - temet nosce
    Re: Archbishop Vigano regarding Archbishop Lefebvre
    « Reply #2 on: March 25, 2024, 09:32:09 AM »
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  • Off work today and right now viewing the SSPX docuмentary on Msgr. Lefebvre.

    Americans of a particular age know where they were when news of JFK's assassination was announced. I remember where I was when I received word of His Grace's death.
    "I distrust every idea that does not seem obsolete and grotesque to my contemporaries."
    Nicolás Gómez Dávila

    Offline gladius_veritatis

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    Re: Archbishop Vigano regarding Archbishop Lefebvre
    « Reply #3 on: March 25, 2024, 01:56:06 PM »
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  • I remember reading a quote that unmistakably demonstrated that +Lefebvre believed one can be saved outside Holy Mother Church.  Perhaps he was just parroting the error/s of his age, but reality is reality, no?

    Frankly, it would be more beneficial for everyone if +Vigano asked for prayers for +Lefebvre's soul, rather than acting like it is a given he is already in Heaven.
    "Fear God, and keep His commandments: for this is all man."

    Offline AnthonyPadua

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    Re: Archbishop Vigano regarding Archbishop Lefebvre
    « Reply #4 on: March 25, 2024, 05:36:38 PM »
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  • I remember reading a quote that unmistakably demonstrated that +Lefebvre believed one can be saved outside Holy Mother Church.  Perhaps he was just parroting the error/s of his age, but reality is reality, no?

    Frankly, it would be more beneficial for everyone if +Vigano asked for prayers for +Lefebvre's soul, rather than acting like it is a given he is already in Heaven.
    From his book against the heresies
    Quote
    • Page 216: “Evidently, certain distinctions must be made. Souls can be saved in a religion other than the Catholic religion (Protestantism, Islam, Buddhism, etc.), but not by this religion.  There may be souls who, not knowing Our Lord, have by the grace of the good Lord, good interior dispositions, who submit to God...But some of these persons make an act of love which implicitly is equivalent to baptism of desire.  It is uniquely by this means that they are able to be saved.”[1]
    • Page 217: “One cannot say, then, that no one is saved in these religions…”[2]
    • Pages 217-218: “This is then what Pius IX said and what he condemned. It is necessary to understand the formulation that was so often employed by the Fathers of the Church:  ‘Outside the Church there is no salvation.’  When we say that, it is incorrectly believed that we think that all the Protestants, all the Moslems, all the Buddhists, all those who do not publicly belong to the Catholic Church go to hell.  Now, I repeat, it is possible for someone to be saved in these religions, but they are saved by the Church, and so the formulation is true: Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus.  This must be preached.”[3]
    I heard from a priest that Padre Pio had to spend the time to make 1 genuflectiom in purgatory. Going straight into heaven isn't easy, AB Vigano's statement is a bit rash.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Archbishop Vigano regarding Archbishop Lefebvre
    « Reply #5 on: March 25, 2024, 05:40:23 PM »
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  • I remember reading a quote that unmistakably demonstrated that +Lefebvre believed one can be saved outside Holy Mother Church.  Perhaps he was just parroting the error/s of his age, but reality is reality, no?

    Frankly, it would be more beneficial for everyone if +Vigano asked for prayers for +Lefebvre's soul, rather than acting like it is a given he is already in Heaven.

    Yes, I believe he was simply regurgitating the errors he was taught himself by various seminary professors whom he considered otherwise Traditional / conservative / trustworthy.  This speaks to how deeply this error had insinuated itself into the minds of Catholics everywhere, long before Vatican II.  Most Traditional Catholics have succuмbed to this error.  +Lefebvre was no theologian, was never trained as one, never pretended to be one; he was a missionary, an extension of a parish priest.

    There's probably a bit of Novus Ordo thinking there by assuming +Lefebvre is already in Heaven, but, if after 33 years, he's not in Heaven by now, given his personal virtue and holiness (by all outward appearances), then I can pretty much give up hope of ever making it myself.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Archbishop Vigano regarding Archbishop Lefebvre
    « Reply #6 on: March 25, 2024, 05:42:39 PM »
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  • From his book against the heresiesI heard from a priest that Padre Pio had to spend the time to make 1 genuflectiom in purgatory. Going straight into heaven isn't easy, AB Vigano's statement is a bit rash.
     
    On what authority does anyone know that Padre Pio had to make this genuflection?  Seems highly suspect.  There's a difference between going "straight into heaven" and being in heaven after 33 years.  I can't imagine someone like +Lefebvre would still be there in Purgatory after that long a time.

    Offline AnthonyPadua

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    Re: Archbishop Vigano regarding Archbishop Lefebvre
    « Reply #7 on: March 25, 2024, 05:44:10 PM »
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  •  
    On what authority does anyone know that Padre Pio had to make this genuflection?  Seems highly suspect.  There's a difference between going "straight into heaven" and being in heaven after 33 years.  I can't imagine someone like +Lefebvre would still be there in Purgatory after that long a time.
    I definitely forgot the timeframe here.. Also I'm not sure where he got the information about Padre Pio.