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Author Topic: John Salza leaves SSPX and returns to Novus Ordo  (Read 13633 times)

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Offline DecemRationis

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Re: John Salza leaves SSPX and returns to Novus Ordo
« Reply #390 on: October 27, 2020, 01:01:38 PM »
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  • Beneath all this pompous blather, one detects the following: "Cool people understand that the SSPX position, expressed by Father Peter Scott, is self-evidently wrong, and your accepting it demonstrates that you are a jerk, claudel." Unfortunately, you probably would have misspelled jerk, too.

    For once in your life, do something useful and appropriate: namely, explain the basis on which you declare the position of the SSPX and Father Scott wrong and show precisely how the rationale that underlies the "valid but not licit" position offends Faith, reason, or both.

    "Turbitude"? Really?
    Touche regarding the misspelling of "turpitude."

    I think deep down you know the rationale but avoid it because it is extremely inconvenient to the position you hold, which is the easier one to live with. You have participated in this thread, and forlorn has expressed this rationale repeatedly.

    So I'm try a different approach. Here's a quote from Pius XII in Mystici Corporis:
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    Certainly the loving Mother is spotless in the Sacraments by which she gives birth to and nourishes her children; in the faith which she has always preserved inviolate; in her sacred laws imposed on all; in the evangelical counsels which she recommends; in those heavenly gifts and extraordinary grace through which with inexhaustible fecundity,[130] she generates hosts of martyrs, virgins and confessors.


    Do you believe this? If you do, it should self-evident that you cannot maintain that the liturgy of a legitimate pope(s) that contains the sacrament of the eucharist which millions of your fellow Catholics partake in is harmful or odious - I don't recall Father Scott's precise language - and illicit to participate in unless ignorant of its vices (again, I do not recall his exact language), etc.

    If you accept the Conciliar popes and the bishops in union with them as legitimate pastors of the Catholic Church, Father Scott is is calling participation in the dominant and common worship of God of the Catholic Church in the Roman Rite for about the last half century illicit.

    This is the argument I call "absurd."
    Rom. 3:25 Whom God hath proposed to be a propitiation, through faith in his blood, to the shewing of his justice, for the remission of former sins" 

    Apoc 17:17 For God hath given into their hearts to do that which pleaseth him: that they give their kingdom to the beast, till the words of God be fulfilled.


    Offline claudel

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    Re: John Salza leaves SSPX and returns to Novus Ordo
    « Reply #391 on: October 27, 2020, 01:58:32 PM »
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  • … This is the argument I call "absurd."


    You've expended a great deal of figurative breath reinventing a poor excuse for the wheel. You might simply have written, "I am a dogmatic sedevacantist; eat my dust," and left it at that.

    Archbishop Lefebvre and Father Gommar De Pauw are two of the thousands who have evidently wasted their time trying to get you to treat your gray matter as something other than styrofoam peanuts inside your head.


    Offline TradPapist

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    Re: John Salza leaves SSPX and returns to Novus Ordo
    « Reply #392 on: October 27, 2020, 08:13:31 PM »
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  • I know of multiple Trad families, all of whom have 12+ children, who were Trad-raised from the 70s, who have access to various priests (Independent, SSPX and Sede chapels)...but who have recently gone indult.  
    .
    I don't understand the confusion among these people, but the more stories you hear, this is not an isolated incident.  So many people are losing their minds (and maybe their souls).
    Anyone who gravitates towards the Vatican II counter-church during the reign of Francis probably isn't a conservative. 

    Offline s2srea

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    Re: John Salza leaves SSPX and returns to Novus Ordo
    « Reply #393 on: October 28, 2020, 09:55:04 AM »
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  • Well, R&R has a tendency to resolve itself one way or another.  
    Yes, and no. I wouldn't call it a tendency. There are a plethora of Catholics who hold to R&R for the duration of their lives. Sede's are not immune from changing their positions either. We all remember Hobbledehoy, who was well esteemed here, did so. I don't think we'd say he resolved his sedevecantism. There are many other examples, the CMRI nuns, and many more who have changed their positions on the crisis we're in. I know there's specifics as to the why of each person who choses to change their position, but that's not the point. The point is that the issue isn't a R&R issue, alone. Many change their view, and not everyone fits into the same bubble. One person's approach to R&R and /or SV can be unique. That's the sad reality of the crisis.