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Author Topic: Archbishop Viganò: 'Heretical Propositions in Vatican II should be Condemned'  (Read 1874 times)

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Offline thebloodycoven

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Letter of His Excellency 
Archbishop Carlo Maria Viganò

First published at Chiesa e post concilio


14 June 2020
Sunday in the Octave of Corpus Domini


Dear Doctor Guarini,

I have received the observations of Professor Pasqualucci, which you kindly sent to me, and to which I will attempt to respond, as much as possible, in a concise way.

Regarding the possibility of making a correction to the acts of the Second Vatican Council, I think that we can agree: the heretical propositions or those which favor heresy should be condemned, and we can only hope that this will happen as soon as possible.

My objection to Bishop Schneider stems rather from my concern about the possibility that there will be preserved among the official acts of the Church a hapax that, beyond ambiguous formulations of discontinuity, was intended and conceived for its subversive value, and which as such has caused many evils. From a legal point of view, the most suitable solution may perhaps be found; but from the pastoral point of view – that is, as regards the Council’s usefulness for the edification of the faithful – it is preferable to let the whole thing drop and be forgotten. And if it is true, as Professor Pasqualucci affirms, that the error is not doctrine, it is equally true that a condemnation of heterodox propositions would not remove the shadows that surround the whole undertaking of the Council as a complex whole, and which prejudice the entire corpus of its docuмents, nor would it remove the consequences that have derived from the Council. It should also be remembered that the event of the Council far surpasses the docuмents which it produced.

The mere fact that Vatican II is susceptible to correction ought to be sufficient to declare its oblivion as soon as its most obvious errors are seen with clarity. Not by chance does Professor Pasqualucci call it a “conciliabolo [devilish council],” like the Synod of Pistoia, which merited the condemnation of the entire synod beyond the mere condemnation of the individual errors which it taught. I make my own his statement: “After having clearly highlighted the procedural subterfuges and the errors against the Faith scattered throughout the docuмents, a Pope could very well finally quash the entire Council, ‘thereby confirming his brethren in the Faith.’ This would fall perfectly within his summa potestas iurisdictionis over the entire Church, iure divino. The Council is not superior to the Pope. If the Council has deviated from the Faith, the Pope has the power to invalidate it. Indeed, it is his duty.”

Allow me to add that, faced with the disastrous situation in which the Church finds herself and the many evils that afflict her, long discourses among “specialists” appear inadequate and inconclusive. There is an urgent need to restore the Bride of Christ to her two-thousand-year Tradition and to recover the treasures that have been plundered and scattered, thus permitting the disoriented flock to be fully nourished by them.

Every discussion, amidst legitimate differences of opinion, must not have as its goal any compromise with the distortions of the Truth, but rather that the Truth will fully triumph. Virtue is the right mean between two vices, like a peak between two valleys: this ought to be our goal.

It seems to me that from this fruitful exchange with my brother, Bishop Athanasius, what emerges is how much both of us have solely at heart the re-establishment of the Catholic Faith as the essential foundation for union in Charity. There is no conflict, no opposition: our zeal springs from and grows in the Eucharistic Heart of Our Lord and returns to it so as to be consumed in love for Him.

Allow me, dear Doctor Guarini, to invite your readers to pray assiduously for their Pastors, and in particular for those who are living through the present crisis with travail and suffering and who are striving to fulfill the mandate they have received from their divine Master. In a moment in which we are all under attack, besieged on every side, it is necessary more than ever to come together with faith and humility underneath the mantle of she who commands us: love for the Queen of Victories who unites her children is the most evident proof that there cannot be and must not be divisions between us, which are the distinctive mark of the Enemy.

My blessing goes to you and to your readers,

+ Carlo Maria Viganò

*****




Offline Struthio

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Viganò might make a fine new CEO of Fátima-Industry.
Men are not bound, or able to read hearts; but when they see that someone is a heretic by his external works, they judge him to be a heretic pure and simple ... Jerome points this out. (St. Robert Bellarmine)


Offline DecemRationis

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Letter of His Excellency
Archbishop Carlo Maria Viganò

First published at Chiesa e post concilio


14 June 2020
Sunday in the Octave of Corpus Domini


Dear Doctor Guarini,

I have received the observations of Professor Pasqualucci, which you kindly sent to me, and to which I will attempt to respond, as much as possible, in a concise way.

Regarding the possibility of making a correction to the acts of the Second Vatican Council, I think that we can agree: the heretical propositions or those which favor heresy should be condemned, and we can only hope that this will happen as soon as possible.

My objection to Bishop Schneider stems rather from my concern about the possibility that there will be preserved among the official acts of the Church a hapax that, beyond ambiguous formulations of discontinuity, was intended and conceived for its subversive value, and which as such has caused many evils. From a legal point of view, the most suitable solution may perhaps be found; but from the pastoral point of view – that is, as regards the Council’s usefulness for the edification of the faithful – it is preferable to let the whole thing drop and be forgotten. And if it is true, as Professor Pasqualucci affirms, that the error is not doctrine, it is equally true that a condemnation of heterodox propositions would not remove the shadows that surround the whole undertaking of the Council as a complex whole, and which prejudice the entire corpus of its docuмents, nor would it remove the consequences that have derived from the Council. It should also be remembered that the event of the Council far surpasses the docuмents which it produced.

The mere fact that Vatican II is susceptible to correction ought to be sufficient to declare its oblivion as soon as its most obvious errors are seen with clarity. Not by chance does Professor Pasqualucci call it a “conciliabolo [devilish council],” like the Synod of Pistoia, which merited the condemnation of the entire synod beyond the mere condemnation of the individual errors which it taught. I make my own his statement: “After having clearly highlighted the procedural subterfuges and the errors against the Faith scattered throughout the docuмents, a Pope could very well finally quash the entire Council, ‘thereby confirming his brethren in the Faith.’ This would fall perfectly within his summa potestas iurisdictionis over the entire Church, iure divino. The Council is not superior to the Pope. If the Council has deviated from the Faith, the Pope has the power to invalidate it. Indeed, it is his duty.”

Allow me to add that, faced with the disastrous situation in which the Church finds herself and the many evils that afflict her, long discourses among “specialists” appear inadequate and inconclusive. There is an urgent need to restore the Bride of Christ to her two-thousand-year Tradition and to recover the treasures that have been plundered and scattered, thus permitting the disoriented flock to be fully nourished by them.

Every discussion, amidst legitimate differences of opinion, must not have as its goal any compromise with the distortions of the Truth, but rather that the Truth will fully triumph. Virtue is the right mean between two vices, like a peak between two valleys: this ought to be our goal.

It seems to me that from this fruitful exchange with my brother, Bishop Athanasius, what emerges is how much both of us have solely at heart the re-establishment of the Catholic Faith as the essential foundation for union in Charity. There is no conflict, no opposition: our zeal springs from and grows in the Eucharistic Heart of Our Lord and returns to it so as to be consumed in love for Him.

Allow me, dear Doctor Guarini, to invite your readers to pray assiduously for their Pastors, and in particular for those who are living through the present crisis with travail and suffering and who are striving to fulfill the mandate they have received from their divine Master. In a moment in which we are all under attack, besieged on every side, it is necessary more than ever to come together with faith and humility underneath the mantle of she who commands us: love for the Queen of Victories who unites her children is the most evident proof that there cannot be and must not be divisions between us, which are the distinctive mark of the Enemy.

My blessing goes to you and to your readers,

+ Carlo Maria Viganò

*****



Surprise this letter hasn't gotten more commentary here.

He says,  "the heretical propositions or those which favor heresy should be condemned," and then he say V2 is like the Synod of Pistoia, which was condemned outright completely.

It appears to me that he continues on the trajectory to declare sede vacante, not only with regard to Francis, but his predecessors, especially Paul IV who confirmed this robber council. Looks like he thinks its either going to be a future, truly Catholic pope who will throw out V2 and the whole Conciliar revolution, or the end is nigh, which his other recent letter seems to indicate, and as Struthio noted, see reply #201 et seq.:

https://www.cathinfo.com/sspx-resistance-news/incredible-statement-from-archbishop-vigano/195/
Rom. 3:25 Whom God hath proposed to be a propitiation, through faith in his blood, to the shewing of his justice, for the remission of former sins" 

Apoc 17:17 For God hath given into their hearts to do that which pleaseth him: that they give their kingdom to the beast, till the words of God be fulfilled.

Offline DecemRationis

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Surprise this letter hasn't gotten more commentary here.

He says,  "the heretical propositions or those which favor heresy should be condemned," and then he say V2 is like the Synod of Pistoia, which was condemned outright completely.

It appears to me that he continues on the trajectory to declare sede vacante, not only with regard to Francis, but his predecessors, especially Paul IV who confirmed this robber council. Looks like he thinks its either going to be a future, truly Catholic pope who will throw out V2 and the whole Conciliar revolution, or the end is nigh, which his other recent letter seems to indicate, and as Struthio noted, see reply #201 et seq.:

https://www.cathinfo.com/sspx-resistance-news/incredible-statement-from-archbishop-vigano/195/
I mean, Paul VI. Reversed the numbers. 

May God and Paul IV of "cuм Ex Apostolatus" forgive me. 
Rom. 3:25 Whom God hath proposed to be a propitiation, through faith in his blood, to the shewing of his justice, for the remission of former sins" 

Apoc 17:17 For God hath given into their hearts to do that which pleaseth him: that they give their kingdom to the beast, till the words of God be fulfilled.

Offline Ladislaus

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Wow.  He's clearly more Traditional than +Fellay.

He says that it's not sufficient to condemn the heretical and heterodox propositions, that the entire Council was polluted as a result.  So no "95% is good" like +Fellay stated.

He says that the entire Council needs to be dumped and the Church should return to its 2000-year Tradition.


Offline Ladislaus

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Not only did he, as I suggested, have to take the next step of rejecting V2 entirely as a Robber Council (I predicted this as the logical consequence of his previous letter), but he goes further and agrees with it being characterized as a "devilish council".

Now we hope that he'll start grappling with the question of how a Council approved by a legitimate pope could be a "devilish council".

Here's my previous post:
Quote
Of course, the LOGICAL conclusion of his previous reasoning, when laid out in a syllogism, is that Vatican II was not a legitimate Council but, rather a Robber Council.

Offline 2Vermont

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Not only did he, as I suggested, have to take the next step of rejecting V2 entirely as a Robber Council (I predicted this as the logical consequence of his previous letter), but he goes further and agrees with it being characterized as a "devilish council".

Now we hope that he'll start grappling with the question of how a Council approved by a legitimate pope could be a "devilish council".

Here's my previous post:
Bingo.  His comments about invalidating a previous Council sounds more like a Council that was NOT approved and promulgated by a (true) pope; not promulgated in union with the pope.  

Vatican II can not be equated with the Synod of Pistoia and its eventual condemnation because it was not originally approved and promulgated by the pope.
For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. (Matthew 24:24)

Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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vatican II is the counter church and new religion.  

It should all be condemned.  
May God bless you and keep you


Offline Ladislaus

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Bingo.  His comments about invalidating a previous Council sounds more like a Council that was NOT approved and promulgated by a (true) pope; not promulgated in union with the pope.  

Vatican II can not be equated with the Synod of Pistoia and its eventual condemnation because it was not originally approved and promulgated by the pope.

Yes, he'll need to come to grips with how a Council approved by a "Pope" could become a "devil's council".  Perhaps as he imbibes more deeply from Traditional Catholic eccleisology, the light will come on.  We need to pray for him, since he could make a big difference in the fight.

Offline Ladislaus

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vatican II is the counter church and new religion.  

It should all be condemned.  

And that's basically what Archbishop Vigano says in this letter.  He says it should be blotted out completely, the whole thing, and its whole "spirit", and that we should revert to Tradition ... not just have a few propositions condemned or revised.

This is the same argument Bishop Williamson has long made against +Fellay, that +Fellay is wrong that only 5% of the Council is bad, that the entire thing is polluted.  Archbishop Vigano here agrees with this.  Leaving that abomination on the books as an official Church Council would be a blight on the Catholic Church from which the Church's holiness, indefectibility, and Magisterial reliability could never recover.  How could any Catholic really take the Magisterium seriously ever again?

Offline SperaInDeo

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Not only did he, as I suggested, have to take the next step of rejecting V2 entirely as a Robber Council (I predicted this as the logical consequence of his previous letter), but he goes further and agrees with it being characterized as a "devilish council".

Now we hope that he'll start grappling with the question of how a Council approved by a legitimate pope could be a "devilish council".

Here's my previous post:

I'm not competent to deal with the question you have proposed, but I could never get very far reading the Vatican II docuмents because I detected the forked-tongue speech of the devil in nearly every sentence. This is a quality that I have never witnessed in other (Pre VII) docuмents. And it certainly doesn't seem like the language of the Holy Ghost.


Offline Pax Vobis

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Now we hope that he'll start grappling with the question of how a Council approved by a legitimate pope could be a "devilish council".
Based on +Vigano's statement below, I don't think he views the errors of V2 as doctrinal errors, so he wouldn't think that (V2 + legitimate pope = contradiction).  Now, I wouldn't be surprised if he questioned "Francis' papacy" but that would be for reasons apart from V2.  The questions concerning Paul VI's legitimacy (i.e. V2 approval + possible freemason + general heresy) are different from Francis (i.e. Amoris Laeticia, Amazon Synod + heretical statements/acts). 
.
.
Regarding the possibility of making a correction to the acts of the Second Vatican Council, I think that we can agree: the heretical propositions or those which favor heresy should be condemned...From a legal point of view, the most suitable solution may perhaps be found;
.
Comment -- It's clear that he says it would be possible "from a legal point of view" (i.e. in theory) to only condemn the heretical propositions (the word "proposition" means "suggestion", not a teaching.  Ergo, not required, and not a doctrine). 
.
but from the pastoral point of view – that is, as regards the Council’s usefulness for the edification of the faithful – it is preferable to let the whole thing drop and be forgotten.
.
Comment -- But he agrees with all of Tradition (except for the wolves of +Fellay and friends) that in practice, for the good of the faithful and to minimize ANY chance of confusion, that V2 should be wholly rejected.
.
And if it is true, as Professor Pasqualucci affirms, that the error is not doctrine, it is equally true that a condemnation of heterodox (i.e. unorthodox) propositions would not remove the shadows that surround the whole undertaking of the Council as a complex whole, and which prejudice the entire corpus of its docuмents,
.
Comment -- He's saying he's not sure if V2's errors are doctrinal or not, but some believe they are not doctrinal.  If they are doctrinal, then then question of the papacy comes up.  If they aren't doctrinal, the question of Paul VI's papacy is still in question, just for other reasons.  Regardless, even if V2's errors aren't doctrinal, he rightly concludes that the whole council is prejudiced.
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nor would it remove the consequences that have derived from the Council. It should also be remembered that the event of the Council far surpasses the docuмents which it produced.
.
Comment -- Bravo, +Vigano!  Get rid of the "spirit of the council"!  Get rid of this abominable "event"!  Clean house, cleanse history of this horrid 60+ years, and let's get back to Truth!
.

Offline DecemRationis

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Based on +Vigano's statement below, I don't think he views the errors of V2 as doctrinal errors, so he wouldn't think that (V2 + legitimate pope = contradiction).  
Well, Vigano already said in another recent letter that the teaching of DH on religious liberty contradicts Scripture and the Magisterium

That's doctrinal, and it's heresy. 

He's backed into a corner . . . let him be consistent. I think he will be. He's writing letters to a lot of different people in different contexts. . 
Rom. 3:25 Whom God hath proposed to be a propitiation, through faith in his blood, to the shewing of his justice, for the remission of former sins" 

Apoc 17:17 For God hath given into their hearts to do that which pleaseth him: that they give their kingdom to the beast, till the words of God be fulfilled.

Offline Pax Vobis

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Well, Vigano already said in another recent letter that the teaching of DH on religious liberty contradicts Scripture and the Magisterium.

You read what you wanted to see, not what was written.  He never used the word "teaching" or "heresy" in reference to V2, in his letter.  Instead, he used words like "theorized", "doctrinal errors" (i.e. which is not heresy), "doctrinal deviations".  I think he chose his words carefully, because even though he's an archbishop, he still doesn't have the authority (neither do you or I) to declare that V2 "taught" heresy.  And really, it doesn't matter if it did or not.  He says that V2 should be discarded into the historical trash can of anti-Catholic errors.  That's good enough for now.  Paul VI's status as pope is tarnished already; if the future church declares him an anti-pope, that will not fix our present crisis.  A condemnation of V2 is what is important now - to bring as many LIVING people to the Truth.  Paul VI is water under the bridge when speaking of the hear and now.

Offline Ladislaus

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He seems undecided about whether the Vatican II errors are outright heretical or merely heterodox, but he does say that V2 should be abolished and declared a "devil's council".  How exactly can one reconcile an Ecuмenical Council with papal approbation being a "devil's council"?  That is what he has to come to terms with.  He talks about a parallel with the Synod of Pistoia, claiming that a Pope can abolish a Council.  But that doesn't pass the smell test.  Yes, a Pope rejected a council/synod but with Vatican II we already have a pope and a series of popes who gave it their full unreserved approval.

No, Archbishop Vigano, to remove the blight form the Church, it is not enough to "blot out" the Council, but it is necessary to blot out these putative Popes as well.

Keep thinking and praying.