Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: Archbishop Lefebvres thoughts on Sedevacantism  (Read 1440 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline ServusSpiritusSancti

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8212
  • Reputation: +7173/-7
  • Gender: Male
Archbishop Lefebvres thoughts on Sedevacantism
« on: January 27, 2013, 04:05:08 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • One of the largest misconceptions about Archbishop Lefebvre was that he believed sedevacantists were "schismatic" and that he was hostile to the position.

    While it is true that he never embraced sedevacantism, he was open to the position, and there is no evidence to suggest that he thought sedes were schismatic. The Neo-SSPX, which tends to portray sedevacantists as the enemies and those who are opposed to a deal with Rome as "practical sedevacantists", also claims that Archbishop Lefebvre was hostile to the position. This simply is not true. This was being discussed on another thread, and I believe it deserves its own thread.

    The following quotes from Archbishop Lefebvre clearly show he was open to the sedevacantist position:

    Quote
    “It is possible we may be obliged to believe this pope is not pope. For twenty years Mgr de Castro Mayer and I preferred to wait…I think we are waiting for the famous meeting in Assisi, if God allows it.” (Archbishop Lefebvre, Talk, March 30 and April 18, 1986, published in The Angelus, July 1986)


    Quote
    “…these recent acts of the Pope and bishops, with protestants, Animists and Jєωs, are they not an active participation in non-catholic worship as explained by Canon Naz on Canon 1258§1?  In which case I cannot see how it is possible to say that the pope is not suspect of heresy, and if he continues, he is a heretic, a public heretic.  That is the teaching of the Church.” (Talk, March 30 and April 18, 1986, text published in The Angelus, July 1986)


    Quote
    “If it happened that the pope was no longer the servant of the truth, he would no longer be pope.” (Homily preached at Lille, August 29, 1976, before a crowd of some 12,000)


    Quote
    “While we are certain that the faith the Church has taught for 20 centuries cannot contain error,  we are much further from absolute certitude that the pope is truly pope.” (Le Figaro, August 4, 1976)

    Please ignore ALL of my posts. I was naive during my time posting on this forum and didn’t know any better. I retract and deeply regret any and all uncharitable or erroneous statements I ever made here.


    Offline SeanJohnson

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 15064
    • Reputation: +9980/-3161
    • Gender: Male
    Archbishop Lefebvres thoughts on Sedevacantism
    « Reply #1 on: January 27, 2013, 04:44:14 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Blah Blah
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."


    Offline ServusSpiritusSancti

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 8212
    • Reputation: +7173/-7
    • Gender: Male
    Archbishop Lefebvres thoughts on Sedevacantism
    « Reply #2 on: January 27, 2013, 05:35:59 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Seraphim
    Blah Blah


    That's all you can say to Archbishop Lefebvre's own words?
    Please ignore ALL of my posts. I was naive during my time posting on this forum and didn’t know any better. I retract and deeply regret any and all uncharitable or erroneous statements I ever made here.

    Offline SeanJohnson

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 15064
    • Reputation: +9980/-3161
    • Gender: Male
    Archbishop Lefebvres thoughts on Sedevacantism
    « Reply #3 on: January 27, 2013, 05:57:51 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: ServusSpiritusSancti
    Quote from: Seraphim
    Blah Blah


    That's all you can say to Archbishop Lefebvre's own words?


    Same tired quotes, so often put in proper context.

    Matthew: Perhaps we could get a few feenyite threads going?

    They are usually shorter.
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline Quo Vadis Petre

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1234
    • Reputation: +1208/-6
    • Gender: Male
    Archbishop Lefebvres thoughts on Sedevacantism
    « Reply #4 on: January 27, 2013, 06:00:48 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Seraphim
    Quote from: ServusSpiritusSancti
    Quote from: Seraphim
    Blah Blah


    That's all you can say to Archbishop Lefebvre's own words?


    Same tired quotes, so often put in proper context.

    Matthew: Perhaps we could get a few feenyite threads going?

    They are usually shorter.


    Not to get involved: just pointing out one such thread here, quite long.
    "In our time more than ever before, the greatest asset of the evil-disposed is the cowardice and weakness of good men, and all the vigour of Satan's reign is due to the easy-going weakness of Catholics." -St. Pius X

    "If the Church were not divine, this


    Offline Ambrose

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 3447
    • Reputation: +2429/-13
    • Gender: Male
    Archbishop Lefebvres thoughts on Sedevacantism
    « Reply #5 on: January 28, 2013, 12:44:15 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • For those who wish to read the entire text of the Archbishop's speech in 1986, you can find it from the original Angelus here on PDF:

    http://strobertbellarmine.net/angeluslefebvre.html
    The Council of Trent, The Catechism of the Council of Trent, Papal Teaching, The Teaching of the Holy Office, The Teaching of the Church Fathers, The Code of Canon Law, Countless approved catechisms, The Doctors of the Church, The teaching of the Dogmatic

    Offline bowler

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 3299
    • Reputation: +15/-1
    • Gender: Male
    Archbishop Lefebvres thoughts on Sedevacantism
    « Reply #6 on: January 28, 2013, 10:07:39 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Seraphim
    Quote from: ServusSpiritusSancti
    Quote from: Seraphim
    Blah Blah


    That's all you can say to Archbishop Lefebvre's own words?


    Same tired quotes, so often put in proper context.

    Matthew: Perhaps we could get a few feenyite threads going?

    They are usually shorter.


    Schismatics sedevacantes, Feeneyites etc
    It looks like anyoine that disagrees with what you believe is immediately stigmatized by you just like the liberals do. Just like them, you likely don't have the knowledge to refute their arguments, so in your frustration you resort to stigmatizing.

    I am not a sedevacantes, nor a follower of Fr. Feeney, however, I respect both.  

    Offline Capt McQuigg

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 4671
    • Reputation: +2624/-10
    • Gender: Male
    Archbishop Lefebvres thoughts on Sedevacantism
    « Reply #7 on: January 28, 2013, 10:49:26 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Seraphim
    Blah Blah


    Explain why you think what Tripe S said is not worthy of consideration.

    Do you doubt the veracity of the source of those quotes?

    If they are taken out of context, then post the context and we'll draw our own conclusions.


    Offline Centroamerica

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2655
    • Reputation: +1641/-438
    • Gender: Male
    Archbishop Lefebvres thoughts on Sedevacantism
    « Reply #8 on: January 31, 2013, 09:46:24 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • This is ridiculous how sedevacantists post the incompleta thoughts of Mons. Levebvre!!! He did use the reference "schismatic". In the book Open Letter to Conf. Catholics he said of the sedevacantist view that he viewed in it a schismatic spirit, but he did not deny the possibility that it could happen and one day we would find ourselves dealing with that in my understanding of his books. You can't tell an incomplete story if your talking about Mons. Lefebvre. It wouldn't be very just. Thanks.
    We conclude logically that religion can give an efficacious and truly realistic answer to the great modern problems only if it is a religion that is profoundly lived, not simply a superficial and cheap religion made up of some vocal prayers and some ceremonies...

    Offline ServusSpiritusSancti

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 8212
    • Reputation: +7173/-7
    • Gender: Male
    Archbishop Lefebvres thoughts on Sedevacantism
    « Reply #9 on: January 31, 2013, 10:04:52 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Read his own quotes, he thought the position was very possible and wasn't certain that the Pope was truly Pope.
    Please ignore ALL of my posts. I was naive during my time posting on this forum and didn’t know any better. I retract and deeply regret any and all uncharitable or erroneous statements I ever made here.