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Author Topic: Archbishop Lefebvre rebukes the new-Menzingen  (Read 1022 times)

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Offline Machabees

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Archbishop Lefebvre rebukes the new-Menzingen
« on: June 05, 2013, 02:19:09 PM »
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  • The Faith First

    05/12/2013

    “Some are prepared to sacrifice the fight for the faith by saying: ‘Let us first re-enter the Church!  Let us first do everything to integrate the official, public structure of the Church. Let us be silent about dogmatic issues. Let us be silent about the malice of the [New] Mass. Let us keep quiet over the issues of religious freedom, Human Rights, ecuмenism. And, once we are inside the Church, we will be able to do this, we will be able to achieve that...’ That's absolutely false! You don't enter into a structure, under superiors, by claiming that you will overthrow everything as soon as you are inside, whereas they have all the means to suppress us! They have all the authority.

    “What matters to us first and foremost is to maintain the Catholic Faith. That's what we are fighting for. So, the canonical issue, this purely public and exterior issue in the Church, is secondary. What matters is to stay within the Church... inside the Church, in other words, in the Catholic Faith of all time, in the true priesthood, in the true Mass, in the true sacraments, and the same catechism, with the same Bible. That's what matters to us. That's what the Church is.  Public recognition is a secondary issue. Thus, we should not seek what is secondary by losing what is primary, by losing what is the primary goal of our fight!

    “We cannot place ourselves under an authority whose ideas are liberal and who little by little would condemn us, by the logic of the thing, to accept these liberal ideas and all the consequences of these liberal ideas, which are the new Mass, changes in the liturgy, changes in the Bible, changes in catechism, all these changes...”

    Spiritual Conference December 21st 1984

    http://www.archbishoplefebvre.com/1/post/2013/05/the-faith-first.html


    Offline Matto

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    Archbishop Lefebvre rebukes the new-Menzingen
    « Reply #1 on: June 05, 2013, 02:21:11 PM »
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  • Thank you for quoting that. It is as if he knew what Fellay would do in the future and said this to be a warning for us.
    R.I.P.
    Please pray for the repose of my soul.


    Offline Machabees

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    Archbishop Lefebvre rebukes the new-Menzingen
    « Reply #2 on: June 05, 2013, 02:22:22 PM »
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  • SSPX deal with Rome

    05/14/2013
     
    “We would have to re-enter this Conciliar Church in order, supposedly, to make it Catholic. That is a complete illusion. It is not the subjects that make the superiors, but the superiors who make the subjects… Amongst the whole Roman curia, amongst all the world’s bishops who are progressives, I would have been completely swamped. I would have been able to do nothing… [As for the Pope appointing conservative bishops] I don’t think it is a true return to Tradition. Just as in a fight when the troops are going a little too far ahead and one holds them back, so they are slightly putting the brakes on the impulse of Vatican II because the supporters of the council are going to far… the supposedly conservative bishops are wholly supportive of the council and of the liturgical reforms… No, all of that is tactics, which you have to use in any fight. You have to avoid excesses… [Asked about signs of benevolence to Tradition] There are plenty of signs showing us that what you are talking about is simply exceptional and temporary… So I do not think it is opportune to try contacting Rome, I think we must still wait. Wait, unfortunately, for the situation to get still worse on their side. But up till now, they do not want to recognize the fact… That is why what can look like a concession is in reality merely a maneuver to separate us from the largest number of faithful possible. This is the perspective in which they seem to be always giving a little more and even going very far. We must absolutely convince our faithful that it is no more than a maneuver, that it is dangerous to put oneself into the hands of the conciliar bishops and Modernist Rome. It is the greatest danger threatening our people. If we have struggled for twenty years to avoid the conciliar errors, it was not in order, now, to put ourselves into the hands of those professing these errors. (Archbishop Lefebvre, Interview, Fideliter, 1989)

    “Eminence, even if you give us everything–a bishop, some autonomy from the bishops, the 1962 liturgy, allow us to continue our seminaries–we cannot work together because we are going in different directions. You are working to dechristianize society and the Church, and we are working to Christianize them.” (Archbishop Lefebvre to Cardinal Ratzinger, 1987)

    “And we must not waver for one moment either in not being with those who are in the process of betraying us. Some people are always admiring the grass in the neighbor’s field. Instead of looking to their friends, to the Church’s defenders, to those fighting on the battlefield, they look to our enemies on the other side. “After all, we must be charitable, we must be kind, we must not be divisive, after all, they are celebrating the Tridentine Mass, they are not as bad as everyone says” —but THEY ARE BETRAYING US —betraying us! They are shaking hands with the Church’s destroyers. They are shaking hands with people holding modernist and liberal ideas condemned by the Church. So they are doing the devil’s work.” (Archbishop Lefebvre, Address to his priests, Econe, 1990)

    http://www.archbishoplefebvre.com/1/post/2013/05/sspx-deal-with-rome.html

    Offline B from A

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    Archbishop Lefebvre rebukes the new-Menzingen
    « Reply #3 on: June 05, 2013, 03:11:24 PM »
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  • Yes, there are a lot of good quotes like that.  

    There is another thread here on CI where someone mentioned such threads:

    Compilation: pre-2012 SSPX position against a practical deal.

    On that thread, there are links to some Ignis Ardens threads:

    Bishop Fellay, as he was, 1997

    SSPX comments on previous deal-makers



    Plus there's a thread of miscellaneous Archbishop Lefebvre quotes:

    Favorite Archbishop Lefebvre Quotes, List yours!

    And a thread that's sort of related:

    Old SSPX conferencessermons and Old Angelus articles
    So far that one doesn't include lots of docuмents, but it has this comment:

    Quote from: ckershisnik
    The most useful tool that has helped me to stay objective in the SSPX crisis is listening to old material.  Fr. Pulvermacher (I apologize if I misspelled) sermons, Fr. Doran's Family Conferences, Dr. White's lectures to the seminarians, Bishop Williamson's Doctrinal Conferences, as well as old Angelus articles, just to name a few.  

    When one references those, and then listens to the two sides argue, it is clear that one side is closer to the SSPX of old.  Has anyone brought these materials up to priests and laity that claim nothing has changed?




    Offline John Grace

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    Archbishop Lefebvre rebukes the new-Menzingen
    « Reply #4 on: June 05, 2013, 03:17:18 PM »
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  • Is it really necessary to have another thread about that traitor Bishop Fellay?


    Offline Incredulous

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    Archbishop Lefebvre rebukes the new-Menzingen
    « Reply #5 on: June 05, 2013, 03:17:32 PM »
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  • +ABL said at the 1984 Spiritual Conference:

    “What matters to us first and foremost is to maintain the Catholic Faith. That's what we are fighting for. So, the canonical issue, this purely public and exterior issue in the Church, is secondary.

    What matters is to stay within the Church... inside the Church, in other words, in the Catholic Faith of all time, in the true priesthood, in the true Mass, in the true sacraments, and the same catechism, with the same Bible



    It appears Bishop Fellay didn't make this conference?
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline Incredulous

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    Archbishop Lefebvre rebukes the new-Menzingen
    « Reply #6 on: June 05, 2013, 04:50:57 PM »
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  • Quote from: John Grace
    Is it really necessary to have another thread about that traitor Bishop Fellay?


    I've seen these symptoms before.
    The syndrome is known as: "Bp. Fellay decay" fatigue.

    Try using His Excellency for a game of Photo Darts


    Bp. Fellay Target


    It will revive your spirits and improve your eye-keyboard coordination.
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline Matto

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    Archbishop Lefebvre rebukes the new-Menzingen
    « Reply #7 on: June 05, 2013, 04:59:48 PM »
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  • Quote from: Incredulous
    Bp. Fellay Target


    Thanks for the game. It was fun.
    R.I.P.
    Please pray for the repose of my soul.