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Author Topic: Archbishop Di Noia gives Bishop Fellay a taste of his own medecine  (Read 4138 times)

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Offline Orinoco

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  • In an infamous letter (14th April 2012), Bishop Fellay along with the two other members of the SSPX General Council, lectured his three brother Bishops, like naughty schoolboys, on their lack of supernatural spirit, their rigoristic insistence on doctrine. their loss of the spirit of the Church and their unrealistic attitude.
    In December 2012, Bishop Fellay received a very similar letter from Archbishop Di Noia, Vice-President of the Commission "Ecclesia Dei", upbraiding him for his lack of supernatural depth and his over-insistence on the gravity of errors in Vatican II. He also suggests a realistic path towards reconciliation which, seeing how their minds work already on the same wave-length, may find sympathetic ears...

    Archbishop Di Noia's "private" letter, sent in December, has been sent to all the priests of the SSPX in January 2013. It has not been leaked but the following is a reliable summary translated from a French web-site:

    http://www.riposte-catholique.fr/summorum-pontificuм-blog/informations/fsspx-pour-combien-de-temps-encore-le-statu-quo-une-intervention-de-mgr-di-noia#.UPmCpB26cy6

    "Every priest of the Society of Saint Pius X has just received a long letter from Archbishop Di Noia, Vice-President of the Commission Ecclesia Dei. The Pope’s aide acknowledges that the disagreement remains unchanged between the Holy See and the SSPX:

    - the Holy See considers it necessary to interpret the texts of the Council in the light of Tradition;

    - the SSPX thinks that some of the teachings of Vatican II are erroneous.

    The whole question, itself unchanged, is how to make this disagreement bearable.

    Using texts from St. Paul, St. Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas, Archbishop Di Noia proposes a new approach, a spiritual one. He asks that both parties make separately an examination of conscience on humility, gentleness, patience and charity. The SSPX believes that this must not exclude, given the doctrinal issues involved, the rigour of the confession of the Faith. All the more so, since the fragmentation of the faith, catechesis and sacramental practices are all grist to the SSPX mill. On the other hand, it is true to say that the continued deterioration of the situation of the Catholic faith is a pressing invitation to them to leave their splendid isolation and join the official rescue bodies in the affected areas themselves.

    The outline of the practical solution is left, perhaps deliberately, rather vague by Archbishop Di Noia. He recalls, in passing, that Rome still expects a response from Bishop Fellay to the docuмent which was presented to him on June 14 2012. But also, he offers the SSPX a procedure that could be described as “transactional”:

    On the one hand, the SSPX would rediscover the positive charisma of its early years at Freiburg and at Écône (it would seek to reform what should be reformed, firstly by the training of traditional priests and then by sending them out on mission to teach in conformity with their training).

    On the other hand, the SSPX, still considering that certain passages of Vatican II teaching cannot be reconciled with the former teaching, could discuss the subject with the following reservations:

    - Avoiding, as a matter of principle, the use of the mass media;
    - Not building itself into a parallel magisterium;
    - Always presenting objections in a positive and constructive manner;
    - Basing all of its analyses on theological grounds that are both profound and broad-minded.

    (…) Reference is made to the instruction Donum veritatis on the Ecclesial Vocation of the Theologian (24 May 1990). This means, of course, reducing would be “objections” to Vatican II to simple “theological differences”, but allowing certain public differences…"


    Offline Telesphorus

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    Archbishop Di Noia gives Bishop Fellay a taste of his own medecine
    « Reply #1 on: January 18, 2013, 02:13:39 PM »
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  • Insidious.


    Offline curioustrad

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    Archbishop Di Noia gives Bishop Fellay a taste of his own medecine
    « Reply #2 on: January 18, 2013, 11:20:06 PM »
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  • Quote from: Telesphorus
    Insidious.


    Nothing like a disingenuous title and a loaded one word reply for a lack of intellectual honesty and critical thinking ! :judge: :judge: :judge: :judge: :judge:
    Please pray for my soul.
    +
    RIP

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Archbishop Di Noia gives Bishop Fellay a taste of his own medecine
    « Reply #3 on: January 19, 2013, 12:03:34 AM »
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  • Quote from: Telesphorus
    Insidious.



    Could you unpack this a bit for me?  I'm not getting it.  Something must
    be hitting you like a ton of bricks and I just don't see it.  Help!

    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.

    Offline bowler

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    Archbishop Di Noia gives Bishop Fellay a taste of his own medecine
    « Reply #4 on: January 19, 2013, 05:13:06 AM »
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  • Quote from: Orinoco
    In an infamous letter (14th April 2012), Bishop Fellay along with the two other members of the SSPX General Council, lectured his three brother Bishops, like naughty schoolboys, on their lack of supernatural spirit, their rigoristic insistence on doctrine. their loss of the spirit of the Church and their unrealistic attitude.
    In December 2012, Bishop Fellay received a very similar letter from Archbishop Di Noia, Vice-President of the Commission "Ecclesia Dei", upbraiding him for his lack of supernatural depth and his over-insistence on the gravity of errors in Vatican II. He also suggests a realistic path towards reconciliation which, seeing how their minds work already on the same wave-length, may find sympathetic ears...


    Conciliar Rome and it's popes, bishops, and clerics have lost the faith or their marbles, and anyone that can't see that, has not eyes to see.


    Offline Francisco

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    Archbishop Di Noia gives Bishop Fellay a taste of his own medecine
    « Reply #5 on: January 19, 2013, 05:49:46 AM »
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  • Isn't this the same thing that was said to Campos?. A mystery why Newrome is chasing the SSPX. Don't be surprised if Fellay uses this letter to publicly re-start the talks.

    Offline Telesphorus

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    Archbishop Di Noia gives Bishop Fellay a taste of his own medecine
    « Reply #6 on: January 19, 2013, 06:30:53 AM »
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  • Quote from: Neil Obstat
    Quote from: Telesphorus
    Insidious.

    Could you unpack this a bit for me?  I'm not getting it.  Something must
    be hitting you like a ton of bricks and I just don't see it.  Help!


    What is the agenda proposed by the letter?

    Quote
    On the one hand, the SSPX would rediscover the positive charisma of its early years at Freiburg and at Écône


    A New Pentecost!

    Offline Telesphorus

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    Archbishop Di Noia gives Bishop Fellay a taste of his own medecine
    « Reply #7 on: January 19, 2013, 06:33:02 AM »
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  • Quote from: curioustrad
    .. .


    What a worthless post.


    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Archbishop Di Noia gives Bishop Fellay a taste of his own medecine
    « Reply #8 on: January 19, 2013, 07:22:13 AM »
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  • Quote from: Telesphorus
    Quote from: Neil Obstat
    Quote from: Telesphorus
    Insidious.

    Could you unpack this a bit for me?  I'm not getting it.  Something must
    be hitting you like a ton of bricks and I just don't see it.  Help!


    What is the agenda proposed by the letter?

    Quote
    On the one hand, the SSPX would rediscover the positive charisma of its early years at Freiburg and at Écône


    A New Pentecost!


    Okay.  I think I found the page you're on.  The agenda of a new pentecost
    for the SSPX (or is it for the world?) did not jump out at me.  But I can see
    how you would discern that.

    Then I noticed this:

    Quote
    ...
    the continued deterioration of the situation of the Catholic faith is a pressing invitation to them to leave their splendid isolation and join the official rescue bodies in the affected areas themselves.



    It becomes a bit of a challenge to know from whose point of view the
    writer is making a description.  In this case, the continued deterioration
    of the Faith is an objective thing, which we all can agree is real.  Now,
    who is it that perceives it as an invitation, and from whom does the
    invitation come?  Rome would be inviting the SSPX and the Society would
    be receiving the invitation.

    At first, I thought that the "leaving of splendid isolation" applies to both
    the Society AND to Rome.  But now, it seems that it's only the Society.  
    And the "official rescue bodies" are those with jurisdiction, and "the
    affected areas themselves"
    can be seen to be physical locations, or,
    perhaps ideological positions!  

    What about the affected area of indifferentism?  
    What about the affected area of false ecuмenism?
    What about the affected area of religious liberty?  

    It seems to me insane if the Society thinks she can "leave her splendid
    isolation" and join forces with the "official rescue bodies" who are actively
    engaged in PROMOTING indifferentism, false ecuмenism and religious
    liberty
    , when the Society's reputation has been inimical to these
    errors.


    And after all that, there is the suggestion of a "New Pentecost" for the
    Society in this?  I don't see any such thing.  What I see is "Oh! This ship
    is sinking! Let's all climb on board and try to make everyone happy before
    it's too late!"

    IOW ~  operation ѕυιcιdє.


    Am I still on the same page??



    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.

    Offline Domitilla

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    Archbishop Di Noia gives Bishop Fellay a taste of his own medecine
    « Reply #9 on: January 19, 2013, 07:44:28 AM »
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  • ...the intricate dance of diplomacy continues ...

    The deal is going forward!  Kyrie Eleison.

    Offline Francisco

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    Archbishop Di Noia gives Bishop Fellay a taste of his own medecine
    « Reply #10 on: January 19, 2013, 07:56:12 AM »
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  • Quote from: Domitilla
    ...the intricate dance of diplomacy continues ...
    The deal is going forward!  Kyrie Eleison.


    Yes, and notice there is no problem with BF's "Jєωs" remark......


    Offline ultrarigorist

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    Archbishop Di Noia gives Bishop Fellay a taste of his own medecine
    « Reply #11 on: January 19, 2013, 08:16:08 AM »
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  • Quote from: Francisco
    Don't be surprised if Fellay uses this letter to publicly re-start the talks.


    I think that's exactly what will happen.

    Offline Wessex

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    Archbishop Di Noia gives Bishop Fellay a taste of his own medecine
    « Reply #12 on: January 19, 2013, 12:43:25 PM »
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  • Sounds like the creation of a lunatic asylum for crazed religious intellectuals. How far does the mind go before opposites finally converge? In the real world false ecuмenism only succeeded when Rome surrendered to the other faiths and stopped being Catholic. That invitation is still on the table for the Society too if only it could stop being Catholic and start seeing the world with Vatican's new eyes. The proposed rescue operation would end up with the Society becoming the patient rather than the medic.

    Offline Telesphorus

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    Archbishop Di Noia gives Bishop Fellay a taste of his own medecine
    « Reply #13 on: January 19, 2013, 06:44:44 PM »
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  • Quote from: Wessex
    That invitation is still on the table for the Society too if only it could stop being Catholic and start seeing the world with Vatican's new eyes.


    Right, what are the conditions:

    "- Avoiding, as a matter of principle, the use of the mass media;"

    In other words, keep religion a "private matter" - keep those nuts off the interwebs!

    "- Not building itself into a parallel magisterium; "

    Stop elaborating the principles of preconciliar theology!  When political issues are brought up, write an article on Hanukkah instead of the Social Reign of Christ!

    "- Always presenting objections in a positive and constructive manner; "

     Just vacuously say, without any explanation, that you are against false ecuмenism and religious liberty and against "modernism" - without ever explaining the evils of Judaism, Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ, and the apostasy of implicit in the acts of the conciliar hierarchy.

    "- Basing all of its analyses on theological grounds that are both profound and broad-minded. "

    Start thinking and speaking like a modernist.  Embrace ambiguity and trickery and learn from the masters of deceit, how to deceive.

    Offline magdalena

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    Archbishop Di Noia gives Bishop Fellay a taste of his own medecine
    « Reply #14 on: January 19, 2013, 08:23:29 PM »
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  • Ooh!  Just like the "early years at Freiburg and at Econe."  Are we suppose to believe that?  And what made that so good, BTW.  Look what happened.  Besides, "What concord hath Christ with Belial"?  Fools, or deceivers.  You pick.  

     :pop:
    But one thing is necessary. Mary hath chosen the best part, which shall not be taken away from her.
    Luke 10:42