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Author Topic: Time to start a Third Order of the SSPX-Marian Corp?  (Read 7372 times)

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Offline Geremia

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Time to start a Third Order of the SSPX-Marian Corp?
« Reply #30 on: November 27, 2016, 08:38:12 PM »
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  • Quote from: SoldierofCtK
    +ABL helped them get established, he and his successors would be the true superiors of the congregation. The Archbishop explicitly said he was not the superior of the Avrille Dominicans and placed his trust in the prior.
    When were the Dominicans of Avrillé founded?
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    Offline SoldierofCtK

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    Time to start a Third Order of the SSPX-Marian Corp?
    « Reply #31 on: November 27, 2016, 08:50:22 PM »
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  • Quote from: Geremia
    When were the Dominicans of Avrillé founded?


    I want to say in the mid to late 1970's. At that time, there would have been no Avrille prior, unlike the situation with Fr. Albert, O.P. and +Fellay/+de Galarreta. +ABL made it clear in 1981 that he would not be the Master General and was only a witness that the community was part of Catholic Tradition.
    +J.M.J.+

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    Offline Incredulous

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    Time to start a Third Order of the SSPX-Marian Corp?
    « Reply #32 on: November 27, 2016, 10:44:21 PM »
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  • Quote from: Geremia
    Quote from: Incredulous
    The sheer audacity of Bp. Fellay, Bishop Tissier and Bishop de Galarreta to concoct their own Dominican order.
    Weren't the Avrillé Dominicans "concocted" in a similar way, though?



    The SSPX was concocted to fit an emergency situation.

    The Dominicans had a 700 year precedence, and Avrille represented those who stayed true to the Faith, while most of the order collapsed to modernism.

    Here's their condensed history from their website:


    -Constitutions of the Order of Friars Preachers

     “What shall become of poor sinners?”

    -St. Dominic at prayer


    Saint Dominic (1170-1221) was a canon regular in Osma, Spain. During a trip in 1203 in the South of France, infested at that time with Albigensian heretics, he realized that the keeper of the inn where he was spending the night was a heretic. Immediately he endeavored to convert him and, after a night of discussing, succeeded. The historians will mark this episode as a turning point in the life of St. Dominic. Soon after, Providence will lead the saint to dedicate himself to the conversion of heretics, and in 1216 he will found the Order of Friars Preachers, instituted from its birth for the preaching of doctrine against heresy. His burning desire was to save souls by liberating them from the principal cause of their perdition: error.

    For almost eight centuries, the sons of St. Dominic had continued to live this mission of spreading the truth in a world full of errors, exposing the mysteries of the Catholic faith and defending them against heretics and unbelievers.

    However, in the wake of Vatican II, this heritage was largely abandoned. Our community was founded in France in 1975 with the goal of preserving the traditional Dominican life with all the monastic observances that have been the strength of our order since the beginning. In particular, the liturgy is celebrated according to the traditional Dominican rite.

    With regard to the crisis in the Church, the community holds firm to the prudent policy of Archbishop Lefebvre: refusal to cooperate in any way with the modernist destruction of the Church, without falling into the [too] “simple solution” of sedevacantism. In 1981, it was Archbishop Lefebvre himself who received the solemn vows of our Father Prior.

    Today the community has members from Europe, North America, Asia and Australia.

    We are based in Avrillé, France (near Angers, 90 minutes southwest of Paris), in a former monastery of the Grandmontain Order (suppressed in the late 18th century).




    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline Incredulous

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    Time to start a Third Order of the SSPX-Marian Corp?
    « Reply #33 on: November 27, 2016, 11:10:27 PM »
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  •  Thanks for asking the question Geremia.  :wink:

    Let's dig up the history of the Menzingen plot against the Dominicans:

    Here's recount of the Msgr. Fellay's treachery from the Dominican website:
    LINK

    Response to an article on the SSPX-USA website



    An article called “A New Dominican Community” was published on October 24, 2014 on the SSPX USA web site1.  Here are the principle passages with some added commentary.

    It is interesting to note that on 24 October, the same day this article appeared, two Dominican Fathers from Avrillé arrived in the United States for a 15 day stay to visit the Dominican Tertiaries attached to the Avrillé friary.

    Two days later on 26 October, the SSPX District Superior of the United States. Fr. Wegner, sent a letter to all his priests and to all the Avrillé Tertiaries living in the United States, warning them against the Avrillé friary and asking the Avrillé Tertiaries to join the Steffeshausen Third Order.

    In his turn, on 31 October, Fr. Albert sent a letter to the Avrillé Tertiaries living in the United States, warning them against the Avrillé friary and asking the same Tertiaries to join his Third Order.

    The Avrillé Dominican Fathers

    Start of the article appearing on the SSPX-USA web site:
    A New Dominican Community

     “Find out about a new traditional religious community, the Dominican Friars of Steffeshausen, Belgium, and see how you can help them… or even join the Third Order of St. Dominic.
    A video has just been posted about a new foundation of traditional Dominican friars in Belgium and the Third Order that they are offering to the faithful.

    This new community of traditional Dominican friars was founded on November 15, 2013 in Steffeshausen, a little village in the southeast corner of Belgium. They were invited there by the villagers after the death of their parish priest, who had kept the traditional Mass and was persecuted by his bishop some 25 years ago.

    They offered the church and rectory built by this priest to these friars as a first home for their fledgling community.”

    Our Commentary: The Steffeshausen house was not offered to these four priests, but to the Avrillé Dominicans.  Here are the facts:

    On 26 January 2013, during a meeting in Suresnes, in the presence of Fr. de Cacqueray [then District Superior of France], Bishop Fellay asked the Avrillé Dominicans to bring together five “vagus” Dominicans (all perpetually professed to the Avrillé friary) in a house which would be under the jurisdiction of Avrillé. That day, Bishop Fellay promised to support that foundation with his authority and to tell the religious who would refuse to submit that they must remove the habit or they would no longer be recognized as Dominicans by the Society of St. Pius X.

    The Avrillé Dominicans accepted this decision. A committee of lay people who were taking care of the house of Steffeshausen contacted the Avrillé Dominicans early February 2013 offering to hand over this house, so the fathers proposed to Bishop Fellay that the foundation be made there. The bishop accepted, and contacted the five religious to offer to install them in this house.

    However, in June 2013, Bishop de Galarreta told Avrillé that it was he who would take this foundation under his authority. When the fathers told him that Bishop Fellay had promised that the foundation would be instituted under the authority of Avrillé, Bishop de Galarreta answered, “Bishop Fellay considers himself to be relieved of his promise.”

    He declined to comment further and referred to Bishop Fellay. Father Prior of Avrillé then wrote three letters to Bishop Fellay on 14 July, 26 July and 11 August 2013 (the last of which was personally delivered by Fr. de Cacqueray) asking for explanations— he has never received a response.

    The SSPX article continues:

     “Bishop Alfonso de Galarreta, who assists those religious communities affiliated with the SSPX, accepted to help the foundation as its ecclesiastical superior. You can help the Dominicans by making a donation . . . On their behalf, thank you very much for your support!”
    (End of the text from the web site of the SSPX-USA.)

    Our Commentary: The Dominican Order, which is an exempt Order, has never been put under the jurisdiction of a bishop.

    What’s more, being a bishop without jurisdiction, Bishop de Galaretta’s action of removing the five religious from their legitimate superior, without that superior’s agreement, is an illegitimate act and indicates a schismatic mentality by attributing to the bishops consecrated by Archbishop Lefebvre a jurisdiction they do not have and which Archbishop Lefebvre never wanted to give to them because he himself did not have it, as he so often said.

    In the video presented with this article, Fr. Albert recounts his history and very rapidly skims over the 19 years of his life that he spent with “some traditional Dominicans in France,” omitting to say that he was a part of the Avrillé community, that he studied there, that he received all his ecclesiastical orders from as a member of this community and that he made a vow of perpetual obedience between the hands of the prior of Avrillé.

    He also forgets to tell that he was sent to the United States in 2006 by his superiors in Avrillé, on the recommendation of Bishop Fellay, and that afterwards he refused to return to the Avrillé friary where his superiors still wait for him. He also keeps quiet about the situation of the four other religious, all perpetually professed to Avrillé, of whom three left the friary in the middle of the night of 11-12 April 2011 with the complicity of the German SSPX District Superior, Fr. Franz Schmidberger. There are many lapses of memory and much silence in the telling of this tale.

    This foundation, made on dishonesty and disobedience, is a violation of religious law.


    But above all, in the current context, it is a maneuver by Menzingen to weaken the Avrillé community and to have a nice, happy community of Menzingen Dominicans, who neither bark nor bite.



    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline Pilar

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    Time to start a Third Order of the SSPX-Marian Corp?
    « Reply #34 on: December 11, 2016, 10:29:41 PM »
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  • Quote from: Bartholemew
    You can't have a third order unless you have a first order... that is the problem... and neither the SSPX or the resistance have a first order. The only legitimate third orders in existence are Dominican, Benedictine, Carmelite and Franciscan.
    Sure, it's nice to have a group of lay people that say extra prayers etc... but you can't just organize this and call them a "third order". The first order of each of the 4 orders listed above are the priests of those orders. The SSPX is not an "order" per se but a "society" of priests.
    I would suggest that anyone that wants to be in the third order, to join one of the 4 existing third orders, some of which have been in existence for more than 500 years and have the full approval of the church. Despite the crisis in the church, you can still find traditional versions of each. The Dominicans of Auvrille, France come to mind.


    You do not know what you are speaking of. The Society does have a First Order (priests), Second Order (sisters) and Third Order. It was lawfully established and Archbishop Lefebvre was always very careful not to take upon himself any authority he did not possess.

    The traditional Benedictines, Dominicans, Franciscans, Carmelites etc...are all very good and praiseworthy, but there is most definitely a legitimate Third Order of the SSPX. We are not
    bound under penalty of sin. The Society does not have to be an "Order" to have orders within it.

    When the Third Order was established, there were few, very few, of any other orders saying the true Mass, and none of us who desired to belong to a Third Order, wished to join any of the corrupted Orders. What Archbishop Lefebvre gave us was a way to benefit from all the Masses, Offices and other prayers and good works performed by all of the priests of the Society. We were and still are thrilled with and benefiting from that.


    Offline obediens

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    Time to start a Third Order of the SSPX-Marian Corp?
    « Reply #35 on: December 12, 2016, 10:59:29 AM »
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  • Sorry, Pilar but you're wrong.

    The SSPX was founded as a Pious Union under the 1917 Code. Under the 1983 Code, and upon a deal with Rome, they'd be a Society of Apostolic Life.

    Canonically speaking, as well-intentioned as Archbishop Lefebvre was, the SSPX 'Third Order' does not and cannot exist - barring an extraordinary and unprecedented papal intervention. A religious order (not congregation or society) needs to have a First and Second Order in order to have a Third Order. Only the great, major orders have them. The following are the only existing Third Orders:

    Augustinian
    Benedictine (not a Third Order properly speaking, but rather Oblates of individual houses)
    Carmelite
    Discalced Carmelite
    Dominican
    Franciscan
    Mercedarian
    Minim
    Norbertine
    Servite
    Trinitarian

    This is why many pre-Vatican II congregations had associated confraternities and societies but not Third Orders. For example the Redemptorists have the Confraternity of Our Mother of Perpetual Help. The Jesuits have the Apostleship of Prayer and the Happy Death Society.

    As far as Motu Proprio groups (Societies of Apostolic Life), the FSSP has the Confraternity of St. Peter. The Institute of Christ the King has the Society of the Sacred Heart. The Fraternity of St. Vincent Ferrer has an associated Confraternity of the Rosary. On the sedevacantist side, the CMRI has the Confraternity of Mary Immaculate Queen.

    Hope this helps.

    Quote from: Pilar
    Quote from: Bartholemew
    You can't have a third order unless you have a first order... that is the problem... and neither the SSPX or the resistance have a first order. The only legitimate third orders in existence are Dominican, Benedictine, Carmelite and Franciscan.
    Sure, it's nice to have a group of lay people that say extra prayers etc... but you can't just organize this and call them a "third order". The first order of each of the 4 orders listed above are the priests of those orders. The SSPX is not an "order" per se but a "society" of priests.
    I would suggest that anyone that wants to be in the third order, to join one of the 4 existing third orders, some of which have been in existence for more than 500 years and have the full approval of the church. Despite the crisis in the church, you can still find traditional versions of each. The Dominicans of Auvrille, France come to mind.


    You do not know what you are speaking of. The Society does have a First Order (priests), Second Order (sisters) and Third Order. It was lawfully established and Archbishop Lefebvre was always very careful not to take upon himself any authority he did not possess.

    The traditional Benedictines, Dominicans, Franciscans, Carmelites etc...are all very good and praiseworthy, but there is most definitely a legitimate Third Order of the SSPX. We are not
    bound under penalty of sin. The Society does not have to be an "Order" to have orders within it.

    When the Third Order was established, there were few, very few, of any other orders saying the true Mass, and none of us who desired to belong to a Third Order, wished to join any of the corrupted Orders. What Archbishop Lefebvre gave us was a way to benefit from all the Masses, Offices and other prayers and good works performed by all of the priests of the Society. We were and still are thrilled with and benefiting from that.