Author Topic: Anatomy of a sellout (Read 1679 times)

Matthew · « **on:** August 26, 2013, 04:12:47 PM »

Think about the thought process, and the feelings, experienced by a person who "softens" his stance on Vatican II.

For example, let's think about a Traditional Catholic who joins a Novus Ordo Catholic book publisher. He gets hired, and finds himself among lots of Catholic co-workers. He has friends and camaraderie. For once he's not considered "nuts". He feels "moderate" and reasonable. (This can't be understated -- for one who has Fought the Fight for decades, it can be like a breath of fresh air, or a glass of ice cold lemonade for a man dying in the desert.)

One day he notices that they're selling a book on "John Paul II the Great". Is he going to bring up the problems with JP2's pontificate? Probably not. He's more likely to find ways to excuse everything he did, overlooking the bad, and trying to cast him in a bright light.

This applies to countless people in the SSPX, as they are faced with the reality that the SSPX is softening its position. Human Nature says "All RIGHT!"

It's a scientific fact that most people are going to go with human nature. Heroic virtue is always heroic and rare. Most people will go with the flow, the path of least resistance. Even most Catholics trying to stay Catholic will go out of their way to reconcile the world with the Faith. They will try to have it both ways.

So most people aren't inclined to Resist anything; they would rather go with the flow. No wonder the "Resistance" is going to be more or less capped in its potential membership.

Remember: Emotionally and psychologically, all men want to be loved. Not just by God, but by their fellow man. I'm not saying that some of us aren't trying to be heroically faithful; I'm saying that it COSTS US when we do this. It's certainly not going along with human nature. Men DO want to be loved and appreciated. To give this up is to make a sacrifice to God.

I've said it a million times: heroic virtue is rare, that's why it's heroic. Saints/heroes are looked up to because they are special. If everyone could be a hero, heroes would be nothing special.

bowler · « **Reply #1 on:** August 26, 2013, 05:32:49 PM »

I think we are all under the false impression that priests in the past were brave heroes and now in our times they are pathetic milquetoasts. We see few heroes like the resistance priests who gave up an easy life to follow truth.

Priests in our times certainly are milquetoasts, however, if we look back in history, we will see laso see that the brave saint heroes were always rare finds. There is one saint here and one saint there in a period of 100 years! The rest of the clergy went along with the flow. That means that 99.99% of the clergy were at the very least not brave heroes, and on average are just hirelings that want no troubles. Look how all of the clergy in England caved in to Henry VII. When the faith was taught by the Church, they went along with it. When the faith is not taught by the Church, they go along with it.

I believe the priesthood for the most part attracts lazy men. People like St. Ignatius and the great missionary martyrs of North America are the exception. Militaristic priests are rare.

Didn't the devil once say that if there were just three St. John Vianneys that the whole world would be converted?

Incredulous · « **Reply #2 on:** August 26, 2013, 06:12:19 PM »

Quote from: bowler

I believe the priesthood for the most part attracts lazy men.

Bowler, I don't believe this one.

I think most priests are brave.

When one thinks of their "duty of state"... they are brave!

I could never have the courage do it, and most men I know couldn't become a priest either.

I believe it is the devil's use of "human respect" that trips up a lot of priests.

St. Peter was one of the first to cave into human respect. This is why we need to intensify our prayers for priests.

God bless you

Incred

Matto · « **Reply #3 on:** August 26, 2013, 06:13:43 PM »

Quote from: Incredulous

I think most priests are brave.

I hope when you say this you are not talking about Novus Ordo "priests."

Neil Obstat · « **Reply #4 on:** August 26, 2013, 06:37:18 PM »

.

Bowler, it's not your fault. The platform sometimes doesn't
post your post until you post it again so it's an ex post factoid.

Quote from: Matthew

Think about the thought process, and the feelings, experienced by a person who "softens" his stance on Vatican II.

For example, let's think about a Traditional Catholic who joins a Novus Ordo Catholic book publisher. He gets hired, and finds himself among lots of Catholic co-workers. He has friends and camaraderie. For once he's not considered "nuts". He feels "moderate" and reasonable. (This can't be understated -- for one who has Fought the Fight for decades, it can be like a breath of fresh air, or a glass of ice cold lemonade for a man dying in the desert.)

One day he notices that they're selling a book on "John Paul II the Great". Is he going to bring up the problems with JP2's pontificate? Probably not. He's more likely to find ways to excuse everything he did, overlooking the bad, and trying to cast him in a bright light.

This applies to countless people in the SSPX, as they are faced with the reality that the SSPX is softening its position. Human Nature says "All RIGHT!"

It's a scientific fact that most people are going to go with human nature. Heroic virtue is always heroic and rare. Most people will go with the flow, the path of least resistance. Even most Catholics trying to stay Catholic will go out of their way to reconcile the world with the Faith. They will try to have it both ways.

So most people aren't inclined to Resist anything; they would rather go with the flow. No wonder the "Resistance" is going to be more or less capped in its potential membership.

Remember: Emotionally and psychologically, all men want to be loved. Not just by God, but by their fellow man. I'm not saying that some of us aren't trying to be heroically faithful; I'm saying that it COSTS US when we do this. It's certainly not going along with human nature. Men DO want to be loved and appreciated. To give this up is to make a sacrifice to God.

I've said it a million times: heroic virtue is rare, that's why it's heroic. Saints/heroes are looked up to because they are special. If everyone could be a hero, heroes would be nothing special.

How can you say you've said it a "Million Times" when that's almost
impossible? I mean, 7 times, or 7 times 7 times, or even 70
times 7 .......... maybe.

But to say it's been a million times, it would have to be 70 x 7 TIMES
70 x 7 TIMES 4.165 ......... (with 16.5 left over).

OR,

Simply say, "3 x 9!" (Which, actually, comes to 1,088,640.)

(That is, eighty-eight thousand six hundred forty left over, which is about
equal to the sales tax in California, since it's less that 9% extra.)

Neil Obstat · « **Reply #5 on:** August 26, 2013, 06:57:02 PM »

Quote from: Incredulous

Quote from: bowler

I believe the priesthood for the most part attracts lazy men.

Bowler, I don't believe this one.

I think most priests are brave.

When one thinks of their "duty of state"... they are brave!

I could never have the courage do it, and most men I know couldn't become a priest either.

I believe it is the devil's use of "human respect" that trips up a lot of priests.

St. Peter was one of the first to cave into human respect. This is why we need to intensify our prayers for priests.

God bless you

Incred

This is yet another time I've run into this lately..

For example, RESPECTABILITY is really a big factor in the professions.
They make quite a deal about it. Doctors respect other doctors and
lawyers respect other lawyers. They wouldn't trade their respectability
for just about anything, even if it means NOT standing up for the truth.

Now performers consider themselves "professionals" because of this
one factor: public image makes or breaks their career, so human
respect can translate into tens or even hundreds of millions of dollars.

Kazimierz · « **Reply #6 on:** August 26, 2013, 07:10:42 PM »

Quote

How can you say you've said it a "Million Times" when that's almost
impossible? I mean, 7 times, or 7 times 7 times, or even 70
times 7 .......... maybe.

But to say it's been a million times, it would have to be 70 x 7 TIMES
70 x 7 TIMES 4.165 ......... (with 16.5 left over).

OR,

Simply say, "3 x 9!" (Which, actually, comes to 1,088,640.)

(That is, eighty-eight thousand six hundred forty left over, which is about
equal to the sales tax in California, since it's less that 9% extra.)

Methinks our esteemed moderator and defacto Rex(1) here is certainly speaking in a biblical figurative way and the effervescent Neil of the O is in his usual fine form.

Do not construe that I am brave or heroic, but the further the push of the world and the accordistas against the bastions of one's own castle/hermitage of one, the more intransient and stubborn I become. The heels become dug into the metaphysical soil and the sheaths and scabbards are removed, and the safeties switched to Fire.

To quote Stonewall Jackson "No quarter to the enemy. The black flag sir."

God pray we have something to hit us in the posterior if and when there is even the slightest modicuм of backsliding. I pray I could do more for the Resistance even in my isolated liturgical prison, but I feel I have taken an arrow to my breviary.

(1) Why CANT you go about wielding extreme executive authority if some watery tart throws a metaphysical sword at you? I am sure Mrs Moderator would keep all things in order in such an instance. The Lady of the Lake is very properly attired. It is the RhineMaidens one has to watch our for.

Kazimierz · « **Reply #7 on:** August 26, 2013, 07:21:26 PM »

Quote

For example, RESPECTABILITY is really a big factor in the professions.

And yet there are many for whom we view as complacent in failing to exercise that respect, even when it goes beyond the human level. In such in society where litigation is undertaken at the drop of a hat, I might argue that respectability is a veneer under which cowers the fear of precisely that prestige and power. In other words, saving one's carcass is the rule of the day.

R-E-S-P-E-C-T, find out what it means to thee. If God looks upon you favourably, what more is needed?

bowler · « **Reply #8 on:** August 27, 2013, 08:36:08 PM »

Quote from: Incredulous

Quote from: bowler

I believe the priesthood for the most part attracts lazy men.

Bowler, I don't believe this one.

I think most priests are brave.

When one thinks of their "duty of state"... they are brave!

I could never have the courage do it, and most men I know couldn't become a priest either.

I knew that line would get a response. Your response as I read it says that priests are courageous because of their "duty of state", that you and most men do not have the courage to do this "duty of state". Please explain what this "duty of state" is and exactly what priest is carrying his duty out? Like I said, they are rare finds, today and all through Church history. Read my posting again, it is all tied together.

Quote

I think we are all under the false impression that priests in the past were brave heroes and that only in our times, they are pathetic milquetoasts. We see few heroes like the resistance priests who have given up an easy life to follow truth.

Priests in our times certainly are milquetoasts, however, if we look back in history, we will see also conclude that the brave saint heroes were always rare finds. There is one saint here and one saint there in a period of 100 years! The rest of the clergy went along with the flow. That means that 99.99% of the clergy were at the very least not brave heroes, and on average are just hirelings that want no troubles. Look how all of the clergy in England caved in to Henry VIII. When the faith was taught by the Church, they went along with the flow. When the faith is not taught by the Church, (the Arian Heresy, Henry VIII, Vatican II) they go along with the flow.

I believe the priesthood for the most part attracts lazy men. People like St. Ignatius and the great missionary martyrs of North America are the exception. Militaristic priests are rare.

Didn't the devil once say that if there were just three St. John Vianneys that the whole world would be converted?

Saint Jerome : "The whole world groaned and was amazed to find itself Arian".