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Author Topic: Analysis of the Rome-SSPX deal - by Fr Cekada  (Read 8199 times)

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Offline Matthew

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Analysis of the Rome-SSPX deal - by Fr Cekada
« on: May 10, 2012, 04:21:52 PM »
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  • I'm no fan of Fr. Cekada, but I'm compelled to post this here because it adds value to the current discussions here, and I can't find anything wrong with his analysis.

    Hey, if we only read books/articles by
    Catholics --> Traditional --> SSPX --> "Those we agree with"
    our bookshelf would have about 3 books on it, and we wouldn't have many articles to read either!

    A good traditional Catholic can even learn from a Protestant author, depending on the topic at hand.

    So this article can be good, regardless of Fr. C's past/present actions or personal life.


    BISHOP FELLAY,

    THE THREE

    AND

    THE SSPX DEAL:

    A PRELIMINARY ANALYSIS

    by

    Rev. Anthony Cekada

    ------------------------------------------

    THE EXCHANGE of letters in April 2012 between three SSPX bishops (Bernard Tissier de Mallerais, Richard Williamson and Alfonso de Gallaretta) and SSPX Superior General Bernard Fellay over whether SSPX should accept a Vatican offer to be integrated into the Conciliar Church represents a fascinating twist in the ongoing drama of the Society of St. Pius X's negotiations with "Rome."

    Here are some preliminary thoughts.


    THE LETTER OF THE THREE

    "The Three" make a number of excellent points in their letter, in particular:

    1. They nail exactly how an SSPX integration without a doctrinal accord would fit into the Ratzingerian ecclesiology, which allows for "union" among those who do not profess the same doctrine. This is the "Frankenchurch" heresy.

    2. They "call out" Benedict XVI's subjectivism — a topic that +Tissier analyzed in great detail, and that +Williamson repeatedly addressed in a popular and easily comprehensible way.

    3. They also nail the practical effect an SSPX integration would have in the long run — gradual (or perhaps not-so-gradual) absorption on the level of apostolate and theology.


    BP. FELLAY'S RESPONSE

    Bp. Fellay's response is noteworthy because:

    1. It demonstrates, I think, that +Fellay is determined to do the deal with or without "The Three."

    2. It in effect explains why so much of the SSPX senior management has been thumping the drum for the deal. +Fellay needed to show B16 that he has the support of the people who actually CONTROL the organization.

    3. He makes it very clear that as Superior General he does indeed control the organization, that this was what +Lefebvre wanted, and that by that standard, they are out of line.

    4. He more or less recapitulates standard ecclesiology on the need to submit to the Roman Pontiff, and rubs their noses in it by hinting that what they say makes them (gasp) SED*&@#@N+!STS. (This is a cheap shot at them; fat chance!)

    5. His response to The Three's warnings about absorption and compromise tells me he is either disingenuous or clueless.

    Both sides, predictably, trade quotes from +Lefebvre to back up their respective positions. No surprise there, as I've pointed out.


    CAN +FELLAY SELL THE VATICAN ON A ONE-MAN SHOW?

    How could this rather fundamental dispute play out from the Vatican's perspective? Obviously, they would want to get all FOUR bishops on board for the deal in order to end what they see as a schism.

    To allay the Vatican's fears, +Fellay could pitch the deal to them more or less as follows:

    Quote

    • I control the organization and the properties.

    • The senior SSPX officials throughout the world, as you can see, all weighed in and support the deal.

    • As my upper management and branch managers, I can count on them to keep the lower clergy in line.

    • I can also count on them to pitch the deal to the laity through speeches, magazines, bulletins, etc.

    • Realistically, The Three do not present much of a threat.

    • +Williamson is compromised because of the Jєωs, etc. No confirmations by HIM, Your Holiness, in your old Bavarian backyard!

    • + De Gallaretta, as a Spaniard has no home constituency.

    • +Tissier is the only threat because he would have considerable support in France. He is also extremely intelligent and has written extensively on modern theological errors,

    • However, +Tissier is older, has a less-than-dynamic personality, and, since any of his French clergy supporters would be shut out of the properties SSPX would still control, he would have to conduct his apostolate in the meeting rooms of Sofitels (or whatever).

    • In countries outside of France, the situation would be the same. Supporters of an SSPX "rump faction" would have no bases from which to operate, and in the face of our already existing parishes, etc. would find it virtually impossible to operate.

    • Effectively, The Three would be marginalized and would pose no threat whatsoever.

    • Ergo, Your Holiness, let's do the deal.

    • And pass the strudel.


    Thus my initial reading of the exchange.

    However things may finally turn out, though, you don't need the gift of prophecy to predict that for trads, the rest of May 2012 will be very interesting indeed!
    Want to say "thank you"? 
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    Offline jazzyjeff

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    Analysis of the Rome-SSPX deal - by Fr Cekada
    « Reply #1 on: May 10, 2012, 06:04:40 PM »
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  • I wonder how he finds the time to write these pieces.

    Maybe he's vacationing at 'Bishop's Lodge' in New Mexico again and had a spare moment in between his spa treatments.


    Offline Telesphorus

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    Analysis of the Rome-SSPX deal - by Fr Cekada
    « Reply #2 on: May 10, 2012, 06:26:36 PM »
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  • Well, there's a third alternative, and it's the simplest, and it utterly neutralizes the fact that Bishop Fellay has taken over the properties.

    It simply means breaking cult-control atmosphere of fear and guilt that is used to control the SSPX priests.  If a huge proportion of the priests start being insubordinate at once there's nothing Bishop Fellay can do.

    Offline Telesphorus

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    Analysis of the Rome-SSPX deal - by Fr Cekada
    « Reply #3 on: May 10, 2012, 06:30:16 PM »
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  • Insubordinate in this sense:

    They preach what they want, when they want, in alliance with the other three bishops, without regard to anything their superiors tell them.

    That would effectively neutralize any "compromise."

    Offline ServusSpiritusSancti

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    Analysis of the Rome-SSPX deal - by Fr Cekada
    « Reply #4 on: May 10, 2012, 07:04:54 PM »
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  • This is overall a good analysis by Fr. Cekada. Thanks for posting it Matthew.
    Please ignore ALL of my posts. I was naive during my time posting on this forum and didn’t know any better. I retract and deeply regret any and all uncharitable or erroneous statements I ever made here.


    Offline Anthony M

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    Analysis of the Rome-SSPX deal - by Fr Cekada
    « Reply #5 on: May 10, 2012, 07:32:22 PM »
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  • Real issue is this my friends.

    Fr. Cekada and the other self appointed popes all feel threatened by this agreement with Rome. Why you might ask? Well, simply because they only exist or stand because of the SSPX and the Archbishop to a great extent. They can reasonably foresee that if all works out well with Rome and the SSPX they might in the future have much of an income and anyone left to pontificate upon.

    As to a split with the other Bishop's of the SSPX - Sorry that isn't going to happen either. Regardless of what some may think of Bishop Fellay on a personal level, as such the other bishops will go along with him (so long as no compromise on the faith is required, and that is what has already been guaranteed).

    How can I be so sure of that you might ask? Well read the letter of the three bishops. It doesn't say that we intend to leave or depart from the SSPX if it is approved by Rome. They simply state their caution on such dealings.

    What is more is that the other bishops themselves had already by the standards of the hard liners on this list already compromised long ago once they signed the docuмent asking the Holy Father to remove the excommunications, which contradictory enough they claimed they didn't acknowledge as being a just excommunication. So were they not seeking Conciliar approval already by that act?

    The other 3 Bishops did not make an outcry against the doctrinal discussions did they?
    And so now to presume that they are totally against a recognition by Rome is madness/wishful thinking.  

    What is more is that the greater number of the SSPX are right behind bishop Fellay as far as seeking legal recognition of work of the SSPX even if they might not personally think much of Fellay himself. It is not a personal issue here.





    Offline Stubborn

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    Analysis of the Rome-SSPX deal - by Fr Cekada
    « Reply #6 on: May 10, 2012, 08:02:48 PM »
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  • I do not understand all of this - and I may be completely wrong about the possible outcome (I do not think there will be "a deal" that SSPX will agree to) - but is it just me or has everyone gone batty about this?

    Here we have an ex-SSPX priest with absolutely no axe to grind [/sarcasm] doing a preliminary analysis of the "SSPX deal". What deal?

    Where is everyone getting all the latest inside information from and what's next?

     

     

    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline Anthony M

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    Analysis of the Rome-SSPX deal - by Fr Cekada
    « Reply #7 on: May 10, 2012, 08:30:38 PM »
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  • Stubborn,

    You are on the mark. People on this forum, as like so many others have gone nutty and are doing exactly what the devil wants to see - division and discord. Maybe a sign of there inner shallowness perhaps?

    And yes, who gives the heck what a dishonest money grabbing self appointed pope and former SSPXer like Fr. Cekada has to say! I am sure he want what is best for the SSPX ? He wouldn't be using this as an opportunity to sow discord and bring people to his party line. I would find that very hard to imagine?


    Offline ServusSpiritusSancti

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    Analysis of the Rome-SSPX deal - by Fr Cekada
    « Reply #8 on: May 10, 2012, 08:33:44 PM »
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  • Anthony M, did you read what Matthew wrote? He made it clear that he is not a supporter of Fr. Cekada, yet he agrees with his analysis. As do I.
    Please ignore ALL of my posts. I was naive during my time posting on this forum and didn’t know any better. I retract and deeply regret any and all uncharitable or erroneous statements I ever made here.

    Offline Stubborn

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    Analysis of the Rome-SSPX deal - by Fr Cekada
    « Reply #9 on: May 10, 2012, 09:00:23 PM »
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  • Quote from: Anthony M
    Stubborn,

    You are on the mark. People on this forum, as like so many others have gone nutty and are doing exactly what the devil wants to see - division and discord. Maybe a sign of there inner shallowness perhaps?




    Well I certainly understand the interest, but this whole thing has gone from talks between SSPX and Rome for the purpose of converting Rome - to the SSPX is going to forget the last 45 years entirely and join up with the modernist crooks for the sake of joining up with modernist crooks! I mean WTH?

     
    Quote from: Anthony M

    And yes, who gives the heck what a dishonest money grabbing self appointed pope and former SSPXer like Fr. Cekada has to say! I am sure he want what is best for the SSPX ? He wouldn't be using this as an opportunity to sow discord and bring people to his party line. I would find that very hard to imagine?


    C'mon, no need to disrespect Fr. C. He is a priest, none of us know where we would be today if we had to pass through the same trials he had to pass through - and I am no sede but he IS a priest and should be shown proper respect.

    He certainly has some deep SSPX scars is my guess - goes with the territory imo, but I am sure he would not shed a tear if the SSPX were to crumble tomorrow - and seems like a lot of trads feel the same way.

     At any rate, the rumors, statements and gossip are unsubstantiated -  yet are successful in sowing confusion - ---  kinda like a replay of the 70s when the modernist media swayed whoever fell for their lying bs, and I just hope folks realize that no one really knows what's going to happen - - - - but we do know that +Fellay said that they would accept a deal if Rome accepts SSPX as they are - and he sent them that same exact reply two times.

    IMO, all Rome is doing now is rehearsing more lying bs to fool whoever they can manage to fool yet again by declaring that the SSPX in one way or another finally  compromised - - - - - - of course they'll word it in a convincing way...............or they'll do whatever - who knows?

    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline Canute

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    Analysis of the Rome-SSPX deal - by Fr Cekada
    « Reply #10 on: May 11, 2012, 05:43:20 PM »
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  • Quote from: jazzyjeff
    I wonder how he finds the time to write these pieces.

    Maybe he's vacationing at 'Bishop's Lodge' in New Mexico again and had a spare moment in between his spa treatments.

    Typical newbie! You need to be spending more time here to get the real facts.

    Father Cekada's CATS were getting spa treatments at Bishops' Lodge in New Mexico, and eating snails flown in from the Goring Hotel in London, because they were blackmailing him over an open investigation by the West Chester police into child and koi fish abuse at SGG (report taken by Sgt Joe Friday), all of which was paid for by the Columbus church building fund.

    SJB and other people here can give you details. Welcome to CathInfo! :dancing:


    Offline Canute

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    Analysis of the Rome-SSPX deal - by Fr Cekada
    « Reply #11 on: May 11, 2012, 05:56:06 PM »
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  • Quote from: Anthony M
    Real issue is this my friends.

    Fr. Cekada and the other self appointed popes all feel threatened by this agreement with Rome. Why you might ask? Well, simply because they only exist or stand because of the SSPX and the Archbishop to a great extent. They can reasonably foresee that if all works out well with Rome and the SSPX they might in the future have much of an income and anyone left to pontificate upon.


    I think you are wrong on this, because Fr Cekada said somewhere recently that he would PREFER it if the Society made a deal with Rome. His reason was that the difference between the pro-V2 side and the anti-V2 side would be very clear then. He also said he thought SSPX would probably not make a deal because of the danger that it would actually have to obey the pope.

    I tried to find the quote today, but I didn't have any luck. If I do, I will post it.

    Offline Anthony M

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    Analysis of the Rome-SSPX deal - by Fr Cekada
    « Reply #12 on: May 11, 2012, 06:49:29 PM »
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  • My main point is that the Sede's and other crack pots want you to falsely believe that just because the SSPX may receive approval from Rome that somehow it has sold out. That is madness. Did the Archbishop sell out the SSPX during the time it was approved by Rome ? NO. And the same applies today.

    Those spreading false rumours and promiting division have a serious amount to answer for before God.

    And yes, if you want to speak about respect for Fr. Cekada, granted, then the same applies for Bishop Fellay who is both a bishop and superior of the SSPX !

    Offline Telesphorus

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    Analysis of the Rome-SSPX deal - by Fr Cekada
    « Reply #13 on: May 11, 2012, 06:53:57 PM »
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  • Quote from: Anthony M
    My main point is that the Sede's and other crack pots want you to falsely believe that just because the SSPX may receive approval from Rome that somehow it has sold out.


    Approval from masonic Rome?  

    Quote
    That is madness. Did the Archbishop sell out the SSPX during the time it was approved by Rome ? NO. And the same applies today.


    Those were quite different times, things were still developing.  He wasn't approved for very long.

    Quote
    Those spreading false rumours and promiting division have a serious amount to answer for before God.


    Those who have eyes to see and ears to hear can see how the lines the SSPX is following have been gradually shifted.  One can also see how much effort has been put into building up a false sense of security together with a reluctance to question the leadership.


    Offline PereJoseph

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    Analysis of the Rome-SSPX deal - by Fr Cekada
    « Reply #14 on: May 11, 2012, 08:31:19 PM »
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  • Quote from: Anthony M
    My main point is that the Sede's and other crack pots want you to falsely believe that just because the SSPX may receive approval from Rome that somehow it has sold out.


    Rome does not have the Faith; placing oneself under its rule therefore places the Catholic Faith at the same table as a non-Catholic religion.  It is presumed, following from this, that reasonable men of good will can both maintain the Catholic Faith and the religion of Man simultaneously.  This is an objective insult to the divine Faith of Our Lord Jesus Christ, as well as a blasphemy.

    And just because you call somebody a 'crackpot,' or an 'extremist' or whatever other silly epithet you like, does not make it so.

    Quote
    That is madness.


    Believing in the reconciliation of two irreconcilable principles, A and non-A, is truly madness.

    Quote
    And the same applies today.


    Given the information he had at the time, it was truly a miracle of grace that protected him from the Vatican's tentacles.  Besides, it is a completely different situation since then, given Assisi I, II, and III, the false beatifications and canonisations of heretics and enemies of the Faith, acts of apostasy, non-abjuration of heresies, and the statement of heresies by the men in the white cassock.

    Quote
    Those spreading false rumours and promiting division have a serious amount to answer for before God.


    If you think the division within the Society and the letters are 'false rumors,' you're a little late to the game. :laugh1:  Where have you been ?  As for division, that is all that can save the legacy of the Archbishop from the machinations of Benedict and Fellay now.

    Quote
    Bishop Fellay who is both a bishop and superior of the SSPX !


    And he's running it into the ground and betraying the good fight to join up with a house of heresy, blasphemy, and the Revolution.