Author Topic: An agreement with Rome is pending  (Read 4071 times)

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Offline Incredulous

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An agreement with Rome is pending
« on: October 24, 2012, 06:15:17 PM »
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  • Well...  if its going to be a conciliar thing, wouldn't one of his outdoor, "Hills are Alive" Confirmations cover it... if it was televised?




    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline Maria Elizabeth

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    An agreement with Rome is pending
    « Reply #1 on: October 25, 2012, 02:55:12 AM »
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  • Times like these (I.e. no guaranteed access to true bishops) make me wish that our children were being baptized, confirmed, and given 1st Holy Communion all at once, like the Eastern rite Catholics do.  It would make us less vulnerable.



    Offline John Grace

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    An agreement with Rome is pending
    « Reply #2 on: October 25, 2012, 06:04:54 AM »
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  • Quote from: Lepanto Again
     
      While speaking with a friend today we were brought to the realization that without Bishop Williamson and with the silencing of the other two bishops it will be increasingly harder and harder for Bishop Fellay to arrange confirmations for the chapels. Then it dawn on us! There MUST be an agreement already in place but pending while Bishop Fellay disposes of all who oppose him and his dealings with Satanistic Rome.
     
      How can it be explained? By next summer there will be a "miracle" agreement and we will be left to our local bishops for confirmations. This likely scenario (if true) sits in Bishop Fellay''s head as he step by step destroys the SSPX and parades around acting so innocent. Nauseating. What will he have left when he joins the new church but the fat of the pig, no meat, nothing of substance.


    He will only have himself and his gang. People can hardly feign ignorance of what a canonical arrangement will bring about. A major obstacle to Bishop Fellay's deal has been removed.

    Most Indult communities are happy with the local Bishop coming in for confirmations etc etc. They are friends of the "extraordinary form" so you should be grateful these local Bishops will come in to perform confirmations.  They are showing enormous goodwill to provide the sacraments in the old rite.

    The Society have come back to Home Sweet Rome.

    Offline Capt McQuigg

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    An agreement with Rome is pending
    « Reply #3 on: October 25, 2012, 06:13:16 AM »
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  • Are there any legal documents protecting the trademark of the SSPX?  

    If Bishop Fellay and his handful join Rome, who gets to keep the SSPX brand?  Were any of the offices of the SSPX trademarked?  

    Hopefully, if this comes to pass, the other two bishops won't go along.

    Offline John Grace

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    An agreement with Rome is pending
    « Reply #4 on: October 25, 2012, 06:25:29 AM »
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  • Those whom I am familiar with, who are pro-agreement are from an Indult background so no real surprise they want a deal. These people are more suited to the Institute of Christ the King. They might wise up now that the Bishop is expelled. Same for the folk promoting the 'Catholic Voice' newspaper in Ireland.  I never liked a pro-Indult/Summorum Pontificum paper being promoted at Society chapels.

    Expelling the Bishop will wake people up.


    Offline SeanJohnson

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    An agreement with Rome is pending
    « Reply #5 on: October 25, 2012, 07:33:14 AM »
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  • Quote from: John Grace
    Those whom I am familiar with, who are pro-agreement are from an Indult background so no real surprise they want a deal. These people are more suited to the Institute of Christ the King. They might wise up now that the Bishop is expelled. Same for the folk promoting the 'Catholic Voice' newspaper in Ireland.  I never liked a pro-Indult/Summorum Pontificum paper being promoted at Society chapels.

    Expelling the Bishop will wake people up.


    I disagree.

    This crowd has wanted WIlliamson gone for some time.

    They see a deal with Rome as a means by which their faulty consciences can finally allow them to frequent the SSPX they have longed to come to.

    Funny thing is, with the recent morphing of the SSPX, the SSPX they will arrive in feature very little contrast to the indult they are leaving.

    In fact, in 10 years time, there will be no substantial or doctrinal difference between the FSSP and SSPX.

    And because of that, though they will have switched beds, they will remain asleep.
    Romans 5:20 "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    -I retract any and all statements I have made that are incongruent with the True Faith, and apologize for ever having made them-

    Offline John Grace

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    An agreement with Rome is pending
    « Reply #6 on: October 25, 2012, 08:26:04 AM »
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  • Quote from: Seraphim
    Quote from: John Grace
    Those whom I am familiar with, who are pro-agreement are from an Indult background so no real surprise they want a deal. These people are more suited to the Institute of Christ the King. They might wise up now that the Bishop is expelled. Same for the folk promoting the 'Catholic Voice' newspaper in Ireland.  I never liked a pro-Indult/Summorum Pontificum paper being promoted at Society chapels.

    Expelling the Bishop will wake people up.


    I disagree.

    This crowd has wanted WIlliamson gone for some time.

    They see a deal with Rome as a means by which their faulty consciences can finally allow them to frequent the SSPX they have longed to come to.

    Funny thing is, with the recent morphing of the SSPX, the SSPX they will arrive in feature very little contrast to the indult they are leaving.

    In fact, in 10 years time, there will be no substantial or doctrinal difference between the FSSP and SSPX.

    And because of that, though they will have switched beds, they will remain asleep.


    I'm not sure what you disagree with me about. I agree with your points here. Over the past several years, the laity have been softened up in preparation for the deal. Despite everything the vast majority haven't softened nor will they soften.

    I cited 'Catholic Voice' newspaper. The SSPX folk, who do promote it genuinely believe Cardinal Burke is a "good guy". I don't agree nor is he nor Benedict XVI a friend of Tradition.

    There is no doubt some people wanted Bishop Williamson out and are in deep denial regarding their beloved Bishop Fellay. Still, Bishop Williamson has support and hasn't abandoned the principles of the Archbishop yet some usual suspects want to present him as the 'imprudent' bogeyman when it Bishop Fellay, Fr Rostand and others who have betrayed the Archbishop.

    The crowd, who oppose Bishop Williamson do exist but the main thing is his support base continues.

    Let's see where these loyal Fellayite's will be in five years time.

    It's laughable they are calling Bishop Williamson a rebel and those who support him 'rebels'.


    Offline zviadist

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    An agreement with Rome is pending
    « Reply #7 on: October 25, 2012, 08:28:32 AM »
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  • Quote from: Capt McQuigg
    Are there any legal documents protecting the trademark of the SSPX?  

    If Bishop Fellay and his handful join Rome, who gets to keep the SSPX brand?  Were any of the offices of the SSPX trademarked?  

    Hopefully, if this comes to pass, the other two bishops won't go along.


    Don't worry. Max Krah has it all covered.


    Offline SeanJohnson

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    « Reply #8 on: October 25, 2012, 08:47:25 AM »
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  • Quote from: John Grace
    Quote from: Seraphim
    Quote from: John Grace
    Those whom I am familiar with, who are pro-agreement are from an Indult background so no real surprise they want a deal. These people are more suited to the Institute of Christ the King. They might wise up now that the Bishop is expelled. Same for the folk promoting the 'Catholic Voice' newspaper in Ireland.  I never liked a pro-Indult/Summorum Pontificum paper being promoted at Society chapels.

    Expelling the Bishop will wake people up.


    I disagree.

    This crowd has wanted WIlliamson gone for some time.

    They see a deal with Rome as a means by which their faulty consciences can finally allow them to frequent the SSPX they have longed to come to.

    Funny thing is, with the recent morphing of the SSPX, the SSPX they will arrive in feature very little contrast to the indult they are leaving.

    In fact, in 10 years time, there will be no substantial or doctrinal difference between the FSSP and SSPX.

    And because of that, though they will have switched beds, they will remain asleep.


    I'm not sure what you disagree with me about. I agree with your points here. Over the past several years, the laity have been softened up in preparation for the deal. Despite everything the vast majority haven't softened nor will they soften.

    I cited 'Catholic Voice' newspaper. The SSPX folk, who do promote it genuinely believe Cardinal Burke is a "good guy". I don't agree nor is he nor Benedict XVI a friend of Tradition.

    There is no doubt some people wanted Bishop Williamson out and are in deep denial regarding their beloved Bishop Fellay. Still, Bishop Williamson has support and hasn't abandoned the principles of the Archbishop yet some usual suspects want to present him as the 'imprudent' bogeyman when it Bishop Fellay, Fr Rostand and others who have betrayed the Archbishop.

    The crowd, who oppose Bishop Williamson do exist but the main thing is his support base continues.

    Let's see where these loyal Fellayite's will be in five years time.

    It's laughable they are calling Bishop Williamson a rebel and those who support him 'rebels'.



    Oops.

    I thought you were saying that the expulsion will wake people up to the fact that the SSPX is changing.

    My bad.
    Romans 5:20 "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    -I retract any and all statements I have made that are incongruent with the True Faith, and apologize for ever having made them-

    Offline John Grace

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    « Reply #9 on: October 25, 2012, 08:52:19 AM »
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  • A reality for the Indult community in Dublin. The chaplain says both the Novus Ordo and the 'extraordinary form'.Here is recent confirmations where Archbishop Diarmuid   Martin carried out the confirmations.

     http://www.latinmassdublin.ie/
    Quote
    am very grateful to the Archbishop for taking the time to be with us, and for his encouraging words, which you can read here

    Photograph by J Briody

    You see we are supposed to be so thankful to these friends of the 'extraordinary form' for taking the time to visit our chapel.

    What a sad day if a Diarmuid Martin type figure performs confirmations in a Society chapel.
    They established the Indult in the 1980s in Dublin because of the SSPX.

    He didn't actually say the Mass on the day

    Offline John Grace

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    « Reply #10 on: October 25, 2012, 08:59:14 AM »
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  • On vocations, Archbishop Martin stated
    http://irishpapist.blogspot.ie/2012/07/archbishop-diarmuid-martin-worried.html
    Quote
    Archbishop Diarmuid Martin, who at least can never be accused of trading in platitudes and soundbites, has made yet another eyebrow-raising comment, this time while speaking at a summer school.

    The Irish Times reports:

    On the level of priestly vocations, he said: “It is not just that the number of candidates is low. It is also that many of those who present are fragile and some are much more traditional than those who went before them.” There was “a danger that superficial attachment to the externals of tradition may well be a sign of fearfulness and flight from changed realities”.

    Now, I see what the Archbishop is getting at, and it's a fair point. If you flee to the bosom of the Church in a purely reactionary spirit, then you are simply using the Church as a weapon, a rallying point. You are not answering the call of Christ.

    And yet...when the Archbishop says of the new seminarians, "some are much more traditional than those who went before them", the only response I can think of is, "I should bloody hope so!"

    There seems to be a grim irony in an Archbishop of Dublin, standing on top of the ruins of an Irish Church that has been brought down by decades of insidious liberalism, warning against the dangers of excessive traditionalism. It seems like a man crawling through the desert, on the point of dying of thirst, worrying about drowning.


    Offline John Grace

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    « Reply #11 on: October 25, 2012, 09:07:13 AM »
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  • Many Diocesan priests, who claim to be pro-SSPX never actually give up saying the Novus Ordo. I only accept this "their hearts are in the right place" to a degree. Yes, they will get cast out by their local Bishop but a true priest is always supported.

    If these Diocesan priests are so interested in Tradition, they would quit the Novus Ordo. They naturally want to weaken tradition and have everyone embrace this  hermeneutic of continuity nonsense.

    Naturally, they want to change the thinking of Traditionalists.

    Offline John Grace

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    « Reply #12 on: October 25, 2012, 09:12:20 AM »
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  • Quote from: Seraphim
    Quote from: John Grace
    Quote from: Seraphim
    Quote from: John Grace
    Those whom I am familiar with, who are pro-agreement are from an Indult background so no real surprise they want a deal. These people are more suited to the Institute of Christ the King. They might wise up now that the Bishop is expelled. Same for the folk promoting the 'Catholic Voice' newspaper in Ireland.  I never liked a pro-Indult/Summorum Pontificum paper being promoted at Society chapels.

    Expelling the Bishop will wake people up.


    I disagree.

    This crowd has wanted WIlliamson gone for some time.

    They see a deal with Rome as a means by which their faulty consciences can finally allow them to frequent the SSPX they have longed to come to.

    Funny thing is, with the recent morphing of the SSPX, the SSPX they will arrive in feature very little contrast to the indult they are leaving.

    In fact, in 10 years time, there will be no substantial or doctrinal difference between the FSSP and SSPX.

    And because of that, though they will have switched beds, they will remain asleep.


    I'm not sure what you disagree with me about. I agree with your points here. Over the past several years, the laity have been softened up in preparation for the deal. Despite everything the vast majority haven't softened nor will they soften.

    I cited 'Catholic Voice' newspaper. The SSPX folk, who do promote it genuinely believe Cardinal Burke is a "good guy". I don't agree nor is he nor Benedict XVI a friend of Tradition.

    There is no doubt some people wanted Bishop Williamson out and are in deep denial regarding their beloved Bishop Fellay. Still, Bishop Williamson has support and hasn't abandoned the principles of the Archbishop yet some usual suspects want to present him as the 'imprudent' bogeyman when it Bishop Fellay, Fr Rostand and others who have betrayed the Archbishop.

    The crowd, who oppose Bishop Williamson do exist but the main thing is his support base continues.

    Let's see where these loyal Fellayite's will be in five years time.

    It's laughable they are calling Bishop Williamson a rebel and those who support him 'rebels'.



    Oops.

    I thought you were saying that the expulsion will wake people up to the fact that the SSPX is changing.

    My bad.


    It will but only to a degree. If one is not a fighter, I don't see them joining the fight now at this late stage. The  treachery of Bishop Fellay is too much for some folk. It will be worth noting, who Bishop Fellay and his gang bring over with them.

    Offline bowler

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    « Reply #13 on: October 25, 2012, 09:13:18 AM »
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  • Quote from: John Grace
     Over the past several years, the laity have been softened up in preparation for the deal. Despite everything the vast majority haven't softened nor will they soften.

    The crowd, who oppose Bishop Williamson do exist but the main thing is his support base continues.

    Let's see where these loyal Fellayite's will be in five years time.



    That is the same as I have observed.

    Quote
    What American, or English speaker remembers a speech or a writing from Bishop Fellay? I doubt any American even bothered to read what +Fellay has written. He just does not know how to communicate in English. Maybe he does in some other language? Few English speaking persons really know +Fellay, he is just a Bishop that writes something once in a while, that no one reads all the way through.

    On the other hand, I could bring up hundreds of letters from +Williamson since I came to ther SSPX like 15 years (Same for Fr. Timothy Pfieffers letters from the Ridgefield Retreat House), which are excellent communications. In English speaking countries, there is no comparison, Bishop Willaiamson is a great communicator in few words, and +Fellay is a non-communicator in many words.

    English speaking peoples will not easily side with +Fellay if he is opposed to +Williamson. Without +Williamson the SSPX becomes a distant foreign thing to them.

    Offline John Grace

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    « Reply #14 on: October 25, 2012, 09:17:55 AM »
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  • Quote from: bowler
    Quote from: John Grace
     Over the past several years, the laity have been softened up in preparation for the deal. Despite everything the vast majority haven't softened nor will they soften.

    The crowd, who oppose Bishop Williamson do exist but the main thing is his support base continues.

    Let's see where these loyal Fellayite's will be in five years time.



    That is the same as I have observed.

    Quote
    What American, or English speaker remembers a speech or a writing from Bishop Fellay? I doubt any American even bothered to read what +Fellay has written. He just does not know how to communicate in English. Maybe he does in some other language? Few English speaking persons really know +Fellay, he is just a Bishop that writes something once in a while, that no one reads all the way through.

    On the other hand, I could bring up hundreds of letters from +Williamson since I came to ther SSPX like 15 years (Same for Fr. Timothy Pfieffers letters from the Ridgefield Retreat House), which are excellent communications. In English speaking countries, there is no comparison, Bishop Willaiamson is a great communicator in few words, and +Fellay is a non-communicator in many words.

    English speaking peoples will not easily side with +Fellay if he is opposed to +Williamson. Without +Williamson the SSPX becomes a distant foreign thing to them.


    Whilst not a popularity contest, a "problem" that Bishop Fellay faces is Bishop Williamson is popular.  By expelling the Bishop he has brought further problems on himself.

     

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