Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: Aloof from the entire Traditional Catholic world?  (Read 1922 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Matthew

  • Mod
  • *****
  • Posts: 31183
  • Reputation: +27098/-494
  • Gender: Male
Aloof from the entire Traditional Catholic world?
« on: August 05, 2018, 10:14:17 AM »
  • Thanks!4
  • No Thanks!0
  • I am especially harsh towards those who choose to be aloof from the entire Traditional Catholic movement. I refer to those who support no Trad group, attend no Trad Mass by choice, don't have any heroes in the Trad movement, etc.

    I have more respect for a Pfeifferite dupe (who might be emotional, imprudent, and/or ignorant, but at least they want to keep the Faith, be apostolic, etc.) over someone who chooses to be aloof from the entire Traditional Catholic world. The Traditional Catholic world is important, venerable, and has a 50 year track record of helping to save souls and preserve the Faith. So naturally it is dear to my heart.

    I wouldn't even exist if it weren't for the Traditional Catholic movement. My parents met at TAN Books & Publishers, a Traditional Catholic business dedicated to reprinting pre-Vatican II Catholic literature. And said business was started by Thomas A. Nelson, my great-uncle, a Trad Catholic pioneer who also started an independent chapel which only recently closed down. Mr. Nelson wasn't above nepotism, so many relatives on my father's side worked at TAN Books at some time or another.

    Mr. Nelson was also my catechism teacher, and the one who taught me to serve Mass. He taught me about the Jєωs and their stranglehold on the money supply, and taught me the evil of interest. I owe him a huge debt of gratitude (pardon the pun!) for that alone. I wouldn't be able to survive if I hadn't learned that vital tidbit (and resolved to pay as little interest as possible). He was a role model for me in many ways. And to this day, he is still one of my heroes.

    My parents married in a Traditional Catholic (TC) chapel in 1975. My siblings and I were all baptized in that chapel. We confessed our sins at that chapel to the priest, who was ordained in the Redemptorist Order in 1961. We attended a TC Mass every week and were raised Catholic, including all the liturgy and Catholic practices. I got to see others outside my family practicing the TC Faith. And many years later, my wife and I were married at a different TC chapel (also under emergency jurisdiction, etc.) and our children have all been baptized outside the Conciliar structures. Many have received First Communion and Confession, also in the TC milieu.

    So just in my family, one can observe an ENTIRE GENERATION that wouldn't exist if my parents had just given up and decided to wait for the End of the World, the Chastisement, or for St. Peter to come down and choose a new Pope. LIFE GOES ON. It's not just about our material existence -- what's even more important is that we're all here AND HAVE THE TIMELESS CATHOLIC FAITH thanks to my parents' choice to be Traditional Catholic.

    That's why the TC movement is so critically important.  The TC movement works.  It doesn't force anyone's free will, but it works. That much isn't open for debate.
    Want to say "thank you"? 
    You can send me a gift from my Amazon wishlist!
    https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

    Paypal donations: matthew@chantcd.com


    Offline Matthew

    • Mod
    • *****
    • Posts: 31183
    • Reputation: +27098/-494
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Aloof from the entire Traditional Catholic world?
    « Reply #1 on: August 05, 2018, 10:30:09 AM »
  • Thanks!3
  • No Thanks!0
  • P.S. I should also point out that the priest I grew up with used a 1945 Missale.

    Later in life, when I wanted to pursue a vocation to the priesthood, I read about and started attending the SSPX (the nearest chapel was 75 minutes away).

    I'm here to tell you that I have observed *no difference* whether in grace, good works, piety, good fruits, fidelity, stability, etc. from the parishioners attending the Mass where a 1945 Missale was used, compared to all the SSPX chapels I attended where the 1962 Missale was used.

    From my personal experience, I can only conclude that the choice of Missale doesn't matter, as long as it cuts out Vatican II (1962 or earlier).

    And another thing, which I never drew attention to before, was that both the priest (Fr. Frank Slupski) and the educated layman Thomas A. Nelson both had nothing bad to say about the 1962 Missale -- (at least until the late 1990's, when over 3/4 of the parishioners started going to the local Indult, the Institute of Christ the King). They criticized the Communists, Freemasons, Modernists, and Vatican II left and right. What did they ever say about the SSPX? That they are solid, hard core, and serious, but they "think they're the Church". I can't really have a problem with that assessment. As an organization, the SSPX has always had that fault or Achilles' heel, even when they were good.

    But even after the chapel had emptied out, Bp. Slupski had no problem with me going to the SSPX seminary where I'd be trained to say the 1962 Mass. In fact, he sent me there! He gave me my options to pursue a vocation, and didn't care which way I went: Bp. Sanborn's seminary, the SSPX seminary in Winona, MN, and the monastery in Cullman, AL.

    If Bp Slupski, who was completely allergic to all things Conciliar or Novus Ordo, and who always preached his mind, didn't have a dogmatic issue with me attending the SSPX seminary where they only use the 1962 Missale, that says a lot.

    You know how truth is one and error is many? Have you ever talked to a liberal or leftist about Abortion? Notice how you corner them on one argument, and then their argument changes? That is always very telling.
    Want to say "thank you"? 
    You can send me a gift from my Amazon wishlist!
    https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

    Paypal donations: matthew@chantcd.com


    Offline klasG4e

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2307
    • Reputation: +1344/-235
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Aloof from the entire Traditional Catholic world?
    « Reply #2 on: August 06, 2018, 03:02:12 AM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  •  My parents met at TAN Books & Publishers, a Traditional Catholic business dedicated to reprinting pre-Vatican II Catholic literature. And said business was started by Thomas A. Nelson, my great-uncle, a Trad Catholic pioneer who also started an independent chapel which only recently closed down. Mr. Nelson wasn't above nepotism, so many relatives on my father's side worked at TAN Books at some time or another.

    Mr. Nelson was also my catechism teacher, and the one who taught me to serve Mass. He taught me about the Jєωs and their stranglehold on the money supply, and taught me the evil of interest. I owe him a huge debt of gratitude (pardon the pun!) for that alone. I wouldn't be able to survive if I hadn't learned that vital tidbit (and resolved to pay as little interest as possible). He was a role model for me in many ways. And to this day, he is still one of my heroes.

    In my opinion, one that I have stated before on this forum, Thomas Andrew Nelson is one of the greatest American Catholic heroes of the 20th Century.  Like the SSPX TAN got branded big time after it was pulled out from underneath its courageous and dedicated founder.

    This branding has shown itself in various ways.  A small example of this can be seen in this book that TAN published in 1997:
    On the cover of the book is a priest (the Rev. Fr. Brian Bovee of the Institute of Christ the King).  The purple backdrop and the cheap altar setting on the front of the book was unfortunate, but that aside, the book is a great classic.  Before the work went to typeset for printing Mr. Nelson personally asked Fr. Bovee to read it over for any corrections or suggestions.  Fr. Bovee, being a good friend of Mr. Nelson, happily complied.  At the time Fr. Bovee was the sole priest -- a position he held for over 20 years -- at St. Mary Shrine in Rockford, a Church the Diocese of Rockford had handed over to the Institute for their exclusive use.  (See http://www.institute-christ-king.org/rockford/.)

    After Mr. Nelson lost TAN, it's new branding was seen in the new design on the cover of many of its books, not least of which was the one above.  It's new cover is seen here: Obviously, the new cover is much more palatable to the new and unimproved TAN's Novus Ordo market.

    Offline klasG4e

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2307
    • Reputation: +1344/-235
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Aloof from the entire Traditional Catholic world?
    « Reply #3 on: August 06, 2018, 03:10:59 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0

  • You know how truth is one and error is many? Have you ever talked to a liberal or leftist about Abortion? Notice how you corner them on one argument, and then their argument changes? That is always very telling.

    Liberals are notoriously and inherently consistent in their inconsistency.  They are fork tongued chameleons who are especially shameful for their lack of shame.

    Offline Incredulous

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 8901
    • Reputation: +8675/-849
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Aloof from the entire Traditional Catholic world?
    « Reply #4 on: August 06, 2018, 07:31:03 AM »
  • Thanks!4
  • No Thanks!0

  • All good points, but the Traditional Catholic movement has been terribly betrayed and scattered.

    Just look at this poor chump.    Would you call him "TC" ?



    His is an exemplary Traditional Catholic family legacy that he's run into the mud.

    Matt's become the "Alex Jones of the Catacombs", misleading the faithful with gross omissions of the truth, while promoting the compromises of the indult/neo-trad movement. 

    In today's judaic world of confusion, Matt has the "media power" of a bishop.

    Woe unto them that know the Faith, but have opted to subvert it.


    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi


    Offline Incredulous

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 8901
    • Reputation: +8675/-849
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Aloof from the entire Traditional Catholic world?
    « Reply #5 on: August 06, 2018, 08:28:04 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0

  • His "excellency's" schedule:



    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline Pax Vobis

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 10305
    • Reputation: +6216/-1742
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Aloof from the entire Traditional Catholic world?
    « Reply #6 on: August 06, 2018, 10:30:20 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0

  • Quote
    Matt's become the "Alex Jones of the Catacombs", misleading the faithful with gross omissions of the truth, while promoting the compromises of the indult/neo-trad movement.  

    In today's judaic world of confusion, Matt has the "media power" of a bishop.

    Woe unto them that know the Faith, but have opted to subvert it.
    Woe indeed!  But the world has always been full of compromisers, even among Catholics, which is why the martyrs stood out, or why great defenders of the faith stood out, like St Dominic or St Athanasius.  We're not living in a time of martyrdom, but we still face a quasi-persecution and gradually, gradually, gradually, people/groups are getting tired of the fight (the "white martyrdom" of perseverance) and so they compromise to "get along" and to have "peace".

    The fight for the Faith is not over!  Let's all keep our eye on the ball and persevere, as Christ told us in the Gospel of St Matthew:

    Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall put you to death: and you shall be hated by all nations for my name's sake. 10And then shall many be scandalized: and shall betray one another: and shall hate one another. 11And many false prophets shall rise, and shall seduce many. 12And because iniquity hath abounded, the charity of many shall grow cold. 13But he that shall persevere to the end, he shall be saved.  (Matt 24 8:13)

    Offline JPaul

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 3832
    • Reputation: +3722/-293
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Aloof from the entire Traditional Catholic world?
    « Reply #7 on: August 06, 2018, 10:30:53 AM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • His "excellency's" schedule:


    All Novus Ordo/Indult venues, you will notice


    Offline JPaul

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 3832
    • Reputation: +3722/-293
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Aloof from the entire Traditional Catholic world?
    « Reply #8 on: August 06, 2018, 12:53:38 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • Matthew,
    Quote
    I am especially harsh towards those who choose to be aloof from the entire Traditional Catholic movement. I refer to those who support no Trad group, attend no Trad Mass by choice, don't have any heroes in the Trad movement, etc.
    What is the entire Traditional Catholic Movement and what are its boundaries? Where does it start and stop?
    I have always advocated for myself and others to attend a valid Catholic mass if it is possible and to receive the valid sacraments, while they can still be had.  I have said that besides that and your duty of tithe to support the same, to not get involved any further or entangled in their business because there are always strings attached and the agendas of the groups involved, (those flaws in men which you spoke about), a Catholic needs to minimize his worldly attachments in these times.
    This is what I do as well.  As far as heroes, The Church has thousands many of whom I touch daily when I read my Martyrology. I have a deep reverence for Father James Francis Wathen for his uncompromising transmission of the Catholic Faith to me and to others, and for Father Hesse, and of course Father DePaw.  Thomas Nelson for his books especially his This is the Faith, a wonderful exposition. 

    Offline Seraphina

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2931
    • Reputation: +2049/-184
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Aloof from the entire Traditional Catholic world?
    « Reply #9 on: August 06, 2018, 01:05:02 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0

  • I have always advocated for myself and others to attend a valid Catholic mass if it is possible and to receive the valid sacraments, while they can still be had.  I have said that besides that and your duty of tithe to support the same, to not get involved any further or entangled in their business because there are always strings attached and the agendas of the groups involved

    ............a Catholic needs to minimize his worldly attachments in these times.
    Exception- Those who have a vocation to the religious life, those who have the ability to organize and set up chapels.  After all, in order to be a religious, one must become involved with an actual seminary or religious house.  Establishing a chapel entails worldly involvement on many levels.  We can't all remain in our isolated prayer closets, although this is what some are supposed to do.

    Offline Matto

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 6882
    • Reputation: +3849/-406
    • Gender: Male
    • Love God and Play, Do Good Work and Pray
    Re: Aloof from the entire Traditional Catholic world?
    « Reply #10 on: August 06, 2018, 01:48:35 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • I would say I feel aloof from the entire traditional Catholic world but I don't think I am the person you are talking about. I go to a trad Mass though, an SSPX one. I do not have a group though. I cannot say I am an SSPX supporter or a CMRI supporter or even a resistance supporter. I see things good and bad in these different groups. I tend to be aloof from the arguments about these things, especially in the last year or so. But perhaps I am not aloof but friendly towards all, I cannot say, because I am not a home-aloner and would be happy going to many different kinds of trad Masses, though I still do not go to the indult, perhaps out of habit, because I really don't know whether their priests would be valid or not. I think I am a strange man with strange ideas. I don't fit in. I get along with people though. And I like to think about things even though I can't think very well anymore. But we should all be religious in this ante-chamber to hell before we get to our destination for there is no religion there and we will sorely miss it. Not all will go there I guess, not all, I sure hope we do not. But I do not have my own part of the entire traditional Catholic movement that I can call my own really. I do not know one certain priest or group who I think has it all right and that they are all saints and that they are the pillars of the Church in our times. I wish everyone well. I am having a bittersweet last few months since the beginning of May. I am happy with the priest at my chapel now. He has been there for a year and a half and he doesn't say anything bad or crazy. And he seems like a real manly man, not effeminate really.
    R.I.P.
    Please pray for the repose of my soul.


    Offline MaterDominici

    • Mod
    • *****
    • Posts: 5438
    • Reputation: +4152/-96
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Aloof from the entire Traditional Catholic world?
    « Reply #11 on: August 06, 2018, 04:27:40 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • But perhaps I am not aloof but friendly towards all,
    I think this is the difference between yourself and JPaul (at least how he presents himself on this site). He sounds as though, due to the shortcomings of each group, he is unfriendly towards all.
    .
    If he had the means to bring a valid priest into his area for anyone wanting the sacraments, would he say, "any valid priest would be welcomed warmly," or would he say, "they're all flawed, no one is good enough." I'd like to think he'd choose A, but his rhetoric on this site leads me to believe he'd choose B.

    (the above thought is for Wessex as well, the other half of the duo which inspired the OP)
    "I think that Catholicism, that's as sane as people can get."  - Jordan Peterson