Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: All Saints Day costume and impersonation program for children  (Read 2355 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Neil Obstat

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 18177
  • Reputation: +8276/-692
  • Gender: Male
All Saints Day costume and impersonation program for children
« on: October 24, 2012, 01:29:01 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • This is imported from another thread, but since the title of that thread, "Beware of
    SSPX Schools," was not descriptive of this post, and since the members here who
    may be interested to know about this program for children in Arcadia next week, I
    thought it would be useful to open a new thread for this topic, especially since the
    old thread seems to have died out a week ago.  If I were looking for some kind
    of news about such a program, I would never think to look under 'beware of schools' to find it!

    So here goes:


    Background:
    Quote from: bernadette
    Quote from: s2srea
    The SSPX school in Arcadia, Ca seems to be producing potential saints. Its too far for my children to attend there, but I would try to send them if it was closer to my home.

    ... Fr Cooper, who is now the prior at the Arcadia priory here in Southern California, seem s to be a very holy man. I wonder if California is still being largely left out of the politics as usual...


    I know that chapel like the back of my hand...Fr. Cooper has been here only since late August/ September.  He's never preached anything but sermons on virtue, saints, or the like, never mentions anything to do with the politics.  

    I have noticed a much more relaxed and tolerant attitude, much more conciliar...there are many Filipinos, Chinese, Mexican, as well as Caucasian...many have come from the NO...I would say most are ignorant, many by choice of the politics...in other words...the smells and the bells keeps them satisfied.

    The school has shrunk in size from five or so years ago...saints being produced?  I think that's an exaggeration.



    It's providential that you would mention this at this time.  Under Fr. Ward, a tradition
    was developed at Our Lady of the Angels Academy in Arcadia, CA, where students
    would choose a particular saint whom they would imitate for an All Saints' Day
    program in the parish hall.  





    They are doing this again this year,

    to be held after the 8:00 am All Saints' Day Mass

    on Thursday, November 1st, 2012.
     




    Traditional Mass faithful are welcome to attend from out of the area,
    but it is recommended that you sign up in advance
    on the sheet kept in the vestibule for some dish of food
    that you can promise to bring to the pot-luck style luncheon
    that accompanies the presentation on the appointed day (Thursday, 11-1).  







    I have attended this event in years past, and I was highly impressed!

    There is no other stage event that I would rather see than this.  I would prefer to
    see this every year over an Opera, a comedy routine, a Shakespeare play, a
    school talent show, a symphony orchestra, or a live audience filming of a TV
    show.  This puts them all to shame.  You cannot fake this.  This is the real McCoy.



    This should be a standard feature of every Traditional Catholic elementary school.  



    The little ones have to agree that they will do this activity instead of trick-
    or-treating for this year.  That alone is a conspicuous nudge in the right direction,
    for the development of a yearning to trick-or-treat every year does nothing for the
    spiritual good of a child, and on the contrary, tends to develop an appetite for the
    occult, to be frank.  And that defect of spirit can LAST A LIFETIME.  


    This is where the rubber meets the road in the formation of our children, IMHO.


    The children each choose some saint in imitation of whom they will then make a
    costume to wear on that day.  They spend a month or even more, memorizing a
    script they will recite in front of everyone. Parents help them with the costume, of
    course, and with the script.  It turns into a kind of homeschooling project,
    effectively, because none of these children are supposed to tell anyone else about
    their saint.  They have to practice a lot of self-control for several weeks so as to
    keep secret the ID of their saint, and for a reason:  On the Big Day, the pastor is
    voluntarily put to the test.  This is really amusing to see.  He stands there, in the
    center aisle, and watches each child in turn giving his or her recital, dressed as
    their chosen saint, and then it's Father's turn to guess what the saint's name is.  I
    have to give Fr. Ward a lot of credit for putting himself up to this year after year.  

    Sometimes the saint is not easily identified, by any means.  But the key attraction
    is to see the way these beautiful children are transformed into living examples of
    holiness.  I have seen them actually BECOME the saint they have chosen, to such
    a degree that I cannot but think that they are receiving a special grace from that
    saint, at least for a few minutes (as we can see), but also for the duration of their
    preparation.  Saints love to be recognized for the good of children and for their
    spiritual development.


    And it is EXACTLY this kind of fascination and attachment that we are morally
    responsible for raising up in the hearts and minds of our children.  At this
    particular chapel, the 'stage' where they have set up for this is approximately  
    below the altar upstairs, where the tabernacle contains viaticuм and the red lamp
    burns to announce the fact of the Real Presence of Our Lord.

    I suppose a video might do some justice to this event, but you really have to be
    there in person to appreciate it fully.  There is an awe that fills the room, as
    everyone's attention focuses on the child who is doing his best to become holy for
    a minute or two.  
    The very young children are welcome to participate as well, for
    they start to observe their siblings doing the preparations when they are only two
    years old, so by the time they are three or four, some of the more precocious
    ones are eager to get involved, too.  Sometimes, they do not have anything to
    say yet, but they are given a chance to stand there with their sister or brother,
    wearing their own costume, and Father does his best to tell who the imitated saint
    is.







    If you want to see hard evidence that there

    are indeed living saints-in-the-making

    in our own time, this is the place to be

    on November First, All Saints' Day.








    And, in contrast to the spirit of this program, I have found that it is most
    noteworthy to see how certain people who I know have utterly no interest in
    hearing about this program or having anything to do with it.  Some may prefer
    to smugly sit back and complain that to say saints are being produced is an
    "exaggeration." It seems to me that it takes a serious preference for worldliness
    instead of sanctity for this to be the case, for what better example of
    what it means to be on your way to eternal salvation is there, than to
    be a child who 'becomes a saint,' or to be an adult who shows up to
    appreciate seeing it happen?







    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.


    Offline nipr

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 151
    • Reputation: +237/-1
    • Gender: Male
    All Saints Day costume and impersonation program for children
    « Reply #1 on: October 24, 2012, 11:47:44 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Pre V2, children were taught the value of having a patron saint -- the saint they were named after.  They were instructed to study that saint and always remain close to the saint, that because they and the saint shared the same name, that saint would always be there to protect them, to hear their prayers and plead before God for them, etc.  It was a MAJOR DEAL.  

    Then, for All Saints Day, the child was to dress up like the saint and be prepared to give a short explanation of the saint's life and how/why they achieved holiness.  

    It was no game or play or entertainment.  It was a VITAL part of religion class.  There was no choosing this or that saint.  Who you were named after was YOUR special saint like it or not.  If you had no saint, then you got to pick one to your liking.  This did not discourage devotions toward other saints but rather it instilled in the child the importance of having a patron saint and that they, too, could become a saint just like their patron saint did if they did God's Will all their life like their patron saint did.  

    The saints were MUCH MORE appreciated then than they are now.  The children were taught that their goal was to become a saint because a saint is someone who glorifies God the most in this life and that is what we are born for.  


    Offline 1st Mansion Tenant

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1765
    • Reputation: +1446/-127
    • Gender: Female
    All Saints Day costume and impersonation program for children
    « Reply #2 on: October 24, 2012, 12:49:33 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • The little one in our family will be going as St. Therese.  :baby:

    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 16439
    • Reputation: +4863/-1803
    • Gender: Female
    All Saints Day costume and impersonation program for children
    « Reply #3 on: October 24, 2012, 08:18:50 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • We are celebrating the Feast of Christ the King this Sunday at our chapel.
    May God bless you and keep you

    Offline Neil Obstat

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 18177
    • Reputation: +8276/-692
    • Gender: Male
    All Saints Day costume and impersonation program for children
    « Reply #4 on: October 25, 2012, 12:18:35 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: 1st Mansion Tenant
    The little one in our family will be going as St. Therese.  :baby:


    SSHHHHHHH!

    You're not supposed to tell ANYONE!!   :faint:





    I hope she doesn't find out you posted this...
    could be really a tough one to weasel out of!!





    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.


    Offline Neil Obstat

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 18177
    • Reputation: +8276/-692
    • Gender: Male
    All Saints Day costume and impersonation program for children
    « Reply #5 on: October 25, 2012, 10:44:08 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: nipr
    Pre V2, children were taught the value of having a patron saint -- the saint they were named after.  They were instructed to study that saint and always remain close to the saint, that because they and the saint shared the same name, that saint would always be there to protect them, to hear their prayers and plead before God for them, etc.  It was a MAJOR DEAL.  

    Then, for All Saints Day, the child was to dress up like the saint and be prepared to give a short explanation of the saint's life and how/why they achieved holiness.  

    It was no game or play or entertainment.  It was a VITAL part of religion class.  There was no choosing this or that saint.  Who you were named after was YOUR special saint like it or not.  If you had no saint, then you got to pick one to your liking.  This did not discourage devotions toward other saints but rather it instilled in the child the importance of having a patron saint and that they, too, could become a saint just like their patron saint did if they did God's Will all their life like their patron saint did.  

    The saints were MUCH MORE appreciated then than they are now.  The children were taught that their goal was to become a saint because a saint is someone who glorifies God the most in this life and that is what we are born for.  




    "The saints were MUCH MORE appreciated then than they are now."

    I suspect you'll find at Our Lady of the Angels Academy that's still going on.  
    Children are like sponges: they soak up everything that's around them....




    But that's a great point, nipr.  Catholic children can learn a lot about the personal
    relationship they will always have with their patron saint.  And it is really a sad
    thing for them to not know anything at all about him (or her).  

    Most children have more than one, because you have the saint whose feast day
    is your birthday, and the saint of your day of Baptism.  Then you have your first
    name, and your middle name. One of the two should be a saint's name, but they
    could be both Christian names, so that would give you 4, perhaps.  Demanding
    that every child always has the same saint seems a bit oppressive.  Are they
    then prohibited from learning about other saints too?  What if Fr. only knew about
    one saint: how would he be able to guess the names of all the others?  Eh?

    Some of the children at OLAA usually dress up as their own saint, but the way
    they've been doing this under Fr. Ward has been, it's supposed to be a guessing
    game where everyone is surprised.  So if a child comes in every year with the
    same costume, nobody would have to guess.  There is also the little monologue
    or act that the child recites by memory, and perhaps includes some movements,
    and that is hopefully the principal clue for the saint's ID, rather than just the
    costume.  I saw one girl dragging a chain, with an anchor, and holding two
    arrows, a palm branch, a lily, and a spear.  She didn't have to say much!

    There was one little boy who was dressed just like a priest, in the same style as
    Fr. Ward's clericals.  And the boy, about 5 years old, after he did his own
    presentation, came to stand next to Fr. in the middle aisle guessing saints' names,
    but he also started to imitate Fr's gestures.  The observers thought it was pretty
    amusing, but Fr. seemed to be distracted from watching the children on the stage.  
    Fr. had to endure a lot with these shows, but I encouraged him to persevere
    because there is just about no single thing that will endure as a lifelong lesson for
    these children as will their involvement with this project.  He seemed to appreciate
    the encouragement.  

    I asked him if it was difficult to guess the saints, and he told me that it's usually
    not so hard, because the children do a very good job, but when they are a saint
    who is not found on the Calendar, it can be rather challenging.  The whole point
    wasn't to stump Father, but to help him call out the name correctly, for they chose
    three "winners," and they were usually among the saints that Fr. had called
    correctly.





    Quote

    The saints were MUCH MORE appreciated then than they are now.  The children were taught that their goal was to become a saint because a saint is someone who glorifies God the most in this life and that is what we are born for.  


    There is a haunting truth in this -- mostly regarding public schools, but also in
    most religious schools these days.  (But I think OLAA is an exception.)  Any child
    who talks to his friends at school about 'his saint' would be ridiculed, to be sure.  
    And it begins with the teachers.  Teachers are prohibited from mentioning religion
    as a teaching, but that's just an excuse, because they mention all manner of
    FALSE religion as a teaching, without consequence.  It's only their mention of
    doctrines of the TRUE religion that gets them punished.  

    (Vaguely reminds me of Fellayism!!)

    This is part of the consequences of Modernism.  It's an 'a-theistic' principle in
    action.  It is manifest in many different concepts and ideals, from personal outlook
    to historical revisionism, from political affiliation to family authority.  It covers all
    of human existence, and it demands that you keep your religion quarantined
    inside the 'church' walls on Sunday - if you're Catholic, that is, or if your religion
    smacks of Catholic doctrine - and don't you dare let your faith evoke words or
    actions from you outside of that Sunday confinement!  

    Our political leaders are perfect examples of this.   Joe Biden comes to mind.  

    But like I said, it only applies to Catholic doctrine, because any false religion can
    have its false doctrines paraded on Main Street and that's called 'multiculturalism.'

    It's a new-virtue.  

    Billboards can promote condom use, abortion, voting for sodomites or same sex
    'mariage,' Islam is a 'religion of peace,' ... on and on.  But just try mentioning the
    Social Kingship of Jesus Christ, and see how far you get.  Oh, no, that 'offends the
    Jєωs.' That makes you an 'αnтι-ѕємιтє,' and you KNOW there is nothing worse
    than that!
     Try telling that to Saint Paul, the Apostle of the Gentiles!

    It's always interesting to see a child trying to imitate St. Paul.  The problem is, he
    usually is carrying a sword, and that gives it away too quickly.  But you have to
    pay close attention to what he says.



    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.

    Offline Skunkwurxsspx

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 184
    • Reputation: +391/-0
    • Gender: Male
    All Saints Day costume and impersonation program for children
    « Reply #6 on: October 25, 2012, 10:19:47 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Neil Obstat,

         This is indeed a beautiful tradition we have at Our Lady of the Angels--very spiritually uplifting and inspiring!

    Offline Neil Obstat

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 18177
    • Reputation: +8276/-692
    • Gender: Male
    All Saints Day costume and impersonation program for children
    « Reply #7 on: October 25, 2012, 10:28:54 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Skunkwurxsspx
    Neil Obstat,

         This is indeed a beautiful tradition we have at Our Lady of the Angels--very spiritually uplifting and inspiring!



    Dear SWS,

    Could you please fill me in on any changes this year in the rubrics?  That is, do
    the children still have to promise not to trick-or-treat in order to participate in
    the costume presentation?  I always thought that was a key element in the
    whole thing, to help them focus their little attention spans in one direction
    instead of two opposite ones.....

    Wait a minute................  could this be what happened to the child Joseph
    Ratzinger?  He got mixed up as a child, following two opposite objectives?  Hmmm.....






    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.


    Offline Skunkwurxsspx

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 184
    • Reputation: +391/-0
    • Gender: Male
    All Saints Day costume and impersonation program for children
    « Reply #8 on: October 26, 2012, 10:59:21 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Neil Obstat
    Quote from: Skunkwurxsspx
    Neil Obstat,

         This is indeed a beautiful tradition we have at Our Lady of the Angels--very spiritually uplifting and inspiring!



    Dear SWS,

    Could you please fill me in on any changes this year in the rubrics?  That is, do
    the children still have to promise not to trick-or-treat in order to participate in
    the costume presentation?  I always thought that was a key element in the
    whole thing, to help them focus their little attention spans in one direction
    instead of two opposite ones.....

    Wait a minute................  could this be what happened to the child Joseph
    Ratzinger?  He got mixed up as a child, following two opposite objectives?  Hmmm.....








    That's a very good question, Neil Obstat. Haven't thought about it myself. As I'm reading the bulletin from last Sunday, I find that it mentions no prohibition against going trick-or-treating. I do know that, under Fr. Ward, that was a clear and unmistakable condition.

    Anyway, here's how the bulletin reads . . .

    ALL SAINT'S DAY FOR THE CHILDREN

    The children of Our Lady of the Angels and Mission Maria Stella Maris are invited to attend an All Saint's Day party, Thursday, Nov. 1st, after the 8:00 a.m. Mass at Our Lady of the Angels Parish. A potluck breakfast (consisting of breakfast casseroles, breads and fruit) is requested on the part of the Parents. There will be a sign-up sheet in the Vestibule next Sunday. The drinks will be provided. After breakfast the children will dress up as one of the saints to celebrate the day. The children are asked to know something about their saint in order to relate the same to those present (no longer than 50 words).

    I can only hope that not going trick-or-treating is assumed or (somehow) implicitly understood, but the weak wording of the bulletin above is hard to defend against the excellent point you bring up.

    Offline Quo Vadis Petre

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1234
    • Reputation: +1208/-6
    • Gender: Male
    All Saints Day costume and impersonation program for children
    « Reply #9 on: October 26, 2012, 02:00:40 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Fr. Ward may have done good work here, but in other things, he's not so exemplary IMHO. For one, he was (and still is, I believe) a vocal opponent of +Williamson. In fact, he said concerning the uproar last year when +Williamson employed a "neo-nαzι" that he deserved to be expelled!
    "In our time more than ever before, the greatest asset of the evil-disposed is the cowardice and weakness of good men, and all the vigour of Satan's reign is due to the easy-going weakness of Catholics." -St. Pius X

    "If the Church were not divine, this

    Offline Skunkwurxsspx

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 184
    • Reputation: +391/-0
    • Gender: Male
    All Saints Day costume and impersonation program for children
    « Reply #10 on: October 26, 2012, 05:22:16 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Quo Vadis Petre
    Fr. Ward may have done good work here, but in other things, he's not so exemplary IMHO. For one, he was (and still is, I believe) a vocal opponent of +Williamson. In fact, he said concerning the uproar last year when +Williamson employed a "neo-nαzι" that he deserved to be expelled!


    Wow. I must have missed that one. I do know that, whilst here, he was admittedly against our getting involved in the online forums to either discuss or read up on the crisis within the SSPX.


    Offline Quo Vadis Petre

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1234
    • Reputation: +1208/-6
    • Gender: Male
    All Saints Day costume and impersonation program for children
    « Reply #11 on: October 26, 2012, 05:26:49 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Well, he talked only with his priest confreres concerning the uproar (+Fellay getting upset over +Williamson employing said "neo-nαzι" for his defense attorney and threatening to expel him) at the time it happened, not with the faithful, when he made his comment saying that +Williamson deserved to be expelled.
    "In our time more than ever before, the greatest asset of the evil-disposed is the cowardice and weakness of good men, and all the vigour of Satan's reign is due to the easy-going weakness of Catholics." -St. Pius X

    "If the Church were not divine, this

    Offline Skunkwurxsspx

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 184
    • Reputation: +391/-0
    • Gender: Male
    All Saints Day costume and impersonation program for children
    « Reply #12 on: October 26, 2012, 06:56:31 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Quo Vadis Petre
    Well, he talked only with his priest confreres concerning the uproar (+Fellay getting upset over +Williamson employing said "neo-nαzι" for his defense attorney and threatening to expel him) at the time it happened, not with the faithful, when he made his comment saying that +Williamson deserved to be expelled.


    Thanks for the heads-up, Quo Vadis Petre. God bless!