Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: Accepting Vatican II  (Read 16504 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline NIFH

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 214
  • Reputation: +60/-30
  • Gender: Male
Re: Accepting Vatican II
« Reply #90 on: May 04, 2023, 07:14:09 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0

  • "those who did not agree"

    We must distinguish between those who explicitly don't agree, and those who say something wrong while thinking they agree with the Church.  Bishop John was speaking about the former.

    Offline Miser Peccator

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 4351
    • Reputation: +2037/-458
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Accepting Vatican II
    « Reply #91 on: May 04, 2023, 07:18:41 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • "those who did not agree"

    We must distinguish between those who explicitly don't agree, and those who say something wrong while thinking they agree with the Church.  Bishop John was speaking about the former.


    Can you please provide some Magisterial evidence for that?
    I exposed AB Vigano's public meetings with Crowleyan Satanist Dugin so I ask protection on myself family friends priest, under the Blood of Jesus Christ and mantle of the Blessed Virgin Mary! If harm comes to any of us may that embolden the faithful to speak out all the more so Catholics are not deceived.



    [fon


    Offline NIFH

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 214
    • Reputation: +60/-30
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Accepting Vatican II
    « Reply #92 on: May 04, 2023, 08:20:19 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Here's some common sense:

    I have personally heard Society priests say wrong things from the pulpit, obviously without realizing it.

    Sometimes it was a slip of the tongue.  Once Father told us Satan was in Heaven, then quickly corrected himself.  Did he cease to be a Catholic for 5 1/2 seconds?  No.  It was material heresy, not formal heresy.

    Other times it was clearly from a misunderstanding of Church doctrine.  I remember one priest saying he was corrected by a laywoman in the sacristy after Mass, and in his next sermon he publicly corrected himself.  Did he cease to be a Catholic for 1 day?  No.  It was material heresy, not formal heresy.  Archbishop Lefebvre used to say, "A young priest is allowed two heresies per sermon."  He was talking about material heresy stemming from misunderstanding.

    Heresy only excludes a person from the Church when it is formal.

    Offline Miser Peccator

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 4351
    • Reputation: +2037/-458
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Accepting Vatican II
    « Reply #93 on: May 04, 2023, 08:45:22 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Here's some common sense:

    I have personally heard Society priests say wrong things from the pulpit, obviously without realizing it.

    Sometimes it was a slip of the tongue. 

    Other times it was clearly from a misunderstanding of Church doctrine.  I remember one priest saying he was corrected by a laywoman in the sacristy after Mass, and in his next sermon he publicly corrected himself.  Did he cease to be a Catholic for 1 day?  No.  It was material heresy, not formal heresy.  Archbishop Lefebvre used to say, "A young priest is allowed two heresies per sermon."  He was talking about material heresy stemming from misunderstanding.

    Heresy only excludes a person from the Church when it is formal.

    Quote
    Once Father told us Satan was in Heaven, then quickly corrected himself.  Did he cease to be a Catholic for 5 1/2 seconds?  No.  It was material heresy, not formal heresy.
    Yes, he corrected himself.  Perhaps you are not familiar with all of the OUTRAGEOUS heresies of Benedict XVI?  Like all of the demon worshiping "popes" after VII there was never a correction:
    1 hour 6min


    Yes, accidents can happen,
    but did any of those priests sign their names to a "Magisterial" docuмent abrogating the First Commandment or the equivalent?

    Have any of the prelates of the VII Council or those following in their footsteps made an Abjuration of Heresy?

    A denial, disavowal, or renunciation under oath. In common ecclesiastical language this term is restricted to the renunciation of heresy made by the penitent heretic on the occasion of his reconciliation with the Church. The Church has always demanded such renunciation, accompanied by appropriate penance.


    I've provided many infallible statements declaring heretics and apostates to be outside the Church admonishing us to NOT be in communion with them

    or even pray with them

    but you keep saying there is a clause in there somewhere that says

    otherwise.

    Where is that in Magisterial docuмents?

    Is there an exception clause for formal demon worshipers, or material demon worshipers, or subjective demon worshipers?

    Should we continue to pray with them?

    Should we continue to offer the Holy Sacrifice of Our Lord Jesus Christ "una cuм" in communion with demon worshipers?

    Archbishop Lefebvre called them antichrists.

    Should we offer the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass in union with antichrists?

    Where is that in Magisterial teaching (not the opinion of this or that priest)?

    Common sense says we should not.

    But we don't follow common sense.

    We follow the infallible statements of the Magisterium.


    I exposed AB Vigano's public meetings with Crowleyan Satanist Dugin so I ask protection on myself family friends priest, under the Blood of Jesus Christ and mantle of the Blessed Virgin Mary! If harm comes to any of us may that embolden the faithful to speak out all the more so Catholics are not deceived.



    [fon

    Offline NIFH

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 214
    • Reputation: +60/-30
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Accepting Vatican II
    « Reply #94 on: May 04, 2023, 09:08:15 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • These Modernists say wrong things because they misunderstand Church doctrine, like the priest I mentioned who was corrected in the sacristy after Mass.  The things they say are so obviously wrong to you and I whom God has blessed with good teachers.  They are not so obviously wrong if you have been born and bred in existentialism, phenomenologism, etc.

    A well-formed hierarchy could point out to the Modernist his material heresies and demand he give them up or become a formal heretic.

    The drama today is that the highest authorities are themselves the material heretics.  I think it's St. Robert Bellarmine who said something about the college of bishops being able to confront a pope about his material heresies, but they're all Modernists also so don't hold your breath for that.


    Offline Miser Peccator

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 4351
    • Reputation: +2037/-458
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Accepting Vatican II
    « Reply #95 on: May 04, 2023, 09:32:03 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • These Modernists say wrong things because they misunderstand Church doctrine, like the priest I mentioned who was corrected in the sacristy after Mass.  The things they say are so obviously wrong to you and I whom God has blessed with good teachers.  They are not so obviously wrong if you have been born and bred in existentialism, phenomenologism, etc.

    A well-formed hierarchy could point out to the Modernist his material heresies and demand he give them up or become a formal heretic.

    The drama today is that the highest authorities are themselves the material heretics.  I think it's St. Robert Bellarmine who said something about the college of bishops being able to confront a pope about his material heresies, but they're all Modernists also so don't hold your breath for that.

    First, how do you know what they are thinking?

    We have no way of knowing that.

    What we do know is that they are worshiping demons

    and telling others that they can go to Heaven by worshiping demons.

    You can call them "Modernists" if you want but the reality

    is they are worshiping demons.

    Of course they are delusional.

    They left the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church 

    and started the Church of Chrislam.

    Francis is the Vicar of Chrislam,

    Vicar of the Pantheon of gods!

    Join him in his worship at your own peril.




    I exposed AB Vigano's public meetings with Crowleyan Satanist Dugin so I ask protection on myself family friends priest, under the Blood of Jesus Christ and mantle of the Blessed Virgin Mary! If harm comes to any of us may that embolden the faithful to speak out all the more so Catholics are not deceived.



    [fon

    Offline NIFH

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 214
    • Reputation: +60/-30
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Accepting Vatican II
    « Reply #96 on: May 04, 2023, 10:18:24 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • First, how do you know what they are thinking?

    We have no way of knowing that.
    They say themselves that they are only representing what the Church teaches.  In charity I assume they are sincere, and gravely mistaken about Church teaching.

    If they are lying and understand quite well they are teaching falsehoods, God will deal with them Himself.  May He have mercy on them, may He have mercy on judgemental sedevacantists, and may He have mercy on me.

    Offline Miser Peccator

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 4351
    • Reputation: +2037/-458
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Accepting Vatican II
    « Reply #97 on: May 04, 2023, 10:49:15 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • They say themselves that they are only representing what the Church teaches.  In charity I assume they are sincere, and gravely mistaken about Church teaching.

    If they are lying and understand quite well they are teaching falsehoods, God will deal with them Himself.  May He have mercy on them, may He have mercy on judgemental sedevacantists, and may He have mercy on me.

    Yes, may He have mercy on them and me.

    Take into account that they may be delusional.  Like men who think they are women, or humans who think they are a cat or dog, they worship demons and think they are Catholic.

    Or they may just be liars or Freemasons or Communist infiltrators.

    We have no way of knowing.

    Either way...

    be sympathetic.  Pray for them, poor souls.  There but for the grace of God go I. 

    But do not worship in communion with them.  The Church forbids it.

    Infallibly.

    They warned us that if we worship in communion with them we also apostatize.

    "may He have mercy on judgemental sedevacantists"

    Can you please explain how I am judgemental and all those popes and Church councils which declared we are not to be in communion with heretics, apostates (or most obviously any demon worshipers) are not judgemental?

    Not from a priest and his opinion

    but from a Magisterial declaration?


    Should we pray, "Lord have mercy on Popes Pius XI and Pius X and all those mean ol' Church Councils that were so very judgemental and told Catholics not to worship with demon worshipers, heretics and apostates.  They simply didn't understand the poor poor Modernists and their childhood and their formation and their lack of understanding about the First Commandment and not worshiping false gods.

    I'm so glad we have evolved to know better now.  I'm so glad that I can pick and choose what is truly Magisterial in my profound sense of wisdom."  :confused:


    Was St Paul being judgemental?
    "But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach a gospel to you besides that which we have preached to you, let him be anathema.
    Gal 1:8

    What does anathema mean?

    He sounds like a sede, doesn't he?  Was he being judgemental?

    He doesn't seem to take into account what is in their heart or their formation or childhood.

    I'm open to changing my mind if you can provide any Magisterial source that tells me I must.

    I keep asking but I'm only hearing personal feelings and opinions.


    Should I follow you and your feelings and opinion or that of a priest you once heard or should I follow the infallible teachings of the Magisterium of the Church?


    I guess it doesn't matter though, since we can pick and choose which Magisterial declarations we follow and which ones we can throw out?

    I exposed AB Vigano's public meetings with Crowleyan Satanist Dugin so I ask protection on myself family friends priest, under the Blood of Jesus Christ and mantle of the Blessed Virgin Mary! If harm comes to any of us may that embolden the faithful to speak out all the more so Catholics are not deceived.



    [fon


    Offline Miser Peccator

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 4351
    • Reputation: +2037/-458
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Accepting Vatican II
    « Reply #98 on: May 04, 2023, 10:59:03 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0


  • Does this sound judgmental?
    I exposed AB Vigano's public meetings with Crowleyan Satanist Dugin so I ask protection on myself family friends priest, under the Blood of Jesus Christ and mantle of the Blessed Virgin Mary! If harm comes to any of us may that embolden the faithful to speak out all the more so Catholics are not deceived.



    [fon

    Offline NIFH

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 214
    • Reputation: +60/-30
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Accepting Vatican II
    « Reply #99 on: May 04, 2023, 11:17:01 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Was St Paul being judgemental?
    "But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach a gospel to you besides that which we have preached to you, let him be anathema.
    Gal 1:8

    What does anathema mean?

    He sounds like a sede, doesn't he?  Was he being judgemental?
    Think about the SSPX priest who misunderstands a point of doctrine and says a heresy in his sermon:  Before he understands his error and recants, is he anathema?

    Be very careful.

    Offline Miser Peccator

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 4351
    • Reputation: +2037/-458
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Accepting Vatican II
    « Reply #100 on: May 04, 2023, 11:27:49 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Think about the SSPX priest who misunderstands a point of doctrine and says a heresy in his sermon:  Before he understands his error and recants, is he anathema?

    Be very careful.



    Dude...I covered this.

    That's not what we are talking about.

    We are talking about declaring that Allah is Jesus' Father, signing it and trying to pass it off as authentic Magisterium.

    Then never, ever recanting.

    Can you provide an example of a post VII Pope recanting anything?

    Watch that video about the heresies of the most Trad post VII pope I posted above.  It's just a docuмentary of what he did as Vicar of Chrislam.

    He wrote a book while acting as "pope" that said the bodily resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ never happened

    while pretending to be pope!  

    Here he is pretending to be pope and getting a blessing from a witchdoctor:








    Ooops....sorry.  Just a little slip?

    When did he recant?

    Can you provide any evidence for any post VII "pope" recanting any of their demon worshiping heresies?

    Any record of an Abjuration of Error?
    I exposed AB Vigano's public meetings with Crowleyan Satanist Dugin so I ask protection on myself family friends priest, under the Blood of Jesus Christ and mantle of the Blessed Virgin Mary! If harm comes to any of us may that embolden the faithful to speak out all the more so Catholics are not deceived.



    [fon


    Offline Ladislaus

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 46600
    • Reputation: +27458/-5070
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Accepting Vatican II
    « Reply #101 on: May 04, 2023, 11:49:33 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0

  • Can you please provide some Magisterial evidence for that?

    There is none.  He just made it up.

    Offline NIFH

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 214
    • Reputation: +60/-30
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Accepting Vatican II
    « Reply #102 on: May 04, 2023, 11:50:36 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0


  • Dude...I covered this.

    That's not what we are talking about.

    We are talking about declaring that Allah is Jesus' Father, signing it and trying to pass it off as authentic Magisterium.

    Then never, ever recanting.

    Can you provide an example of a post VII Pope recanting anything?

    Watch that video about the heresies of the most Trad post VII pope I posted above.  It's just a docuмentary of what he did as Vicar of Chrislam.

    He wrote a book while acting as "pope" that said the bodily resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ never happened

    while pretending to be pope! 

    Here he is pretending to be pope and getting a blessing from a witchdoctor:








    Ooops....sorry.  Just a little slip?

    When did he recant?

    Can you provide any evidence for any post VII "pope" recanting any of their demon worshiping heresies?

    Any record of an Abjuration of Error?
    His errors were larger and more abundant because his misunderstanding was deeper.  But just like the SSPX priest mentioned, Benedict thought he was in harmony with Church teaching.

    While the SSPX priest was saying the words of Consecration, he had not yet recanted his error.  Was he anathema at that moment?

    If no one pointed out his error and he held his misunderstanding until death, would he be anathema?

    Offline Miser Peccator

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 4351
    • Reputation: +2037/-458
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Accepting Vatican II
    « Reply #103 on: May 04, 2023, 11:54:37 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • His errors were larger and more abundant because his misunderstanding was deeper.  But just like the SSPX priest mentioned, Benedict thought he was in harmony with Church teaching.

    While the SSPX priest was saying the words of Consecration, he had not yet recanted his error.  Was he anathema at that moment?

    If no one pointed out his error and he held his misunderstanding until death, would he be anathema?
    I exposed AB Vigano's public meetings with Crowleyan Satanist Dugin so I ask protection on myself family friends priest, under the Blood of Jesus Christ and mantle of the Blessed Virgin Mary! If harm comes to any of us may that embolden the faithful to speak out all the more so Catholics are not deceived.



    [fon

    Offline Ladislaus

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 46600
    • Reputation: +27458/-5070
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Accepting Vatican II
    « Reply #104 on: May 04, 2023, 11:55:03 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • may He have mercy on judgemental sedevacantists

    :facepalm: nobody’s judging anything except the external forum.  I love how you try to spin your judgment of sedevcantists as charity.  If anyone is judging, it’s you in accusing others of being judgmental, which is closer to a judgment of the internal forum than anything sedevavantists do.  Sedevacantists are motivated by Catholic theological principles.