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Author Topic: Accepting Vatican II  (Read 16516 times)

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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Accepting Vatican II
« Reply #75 on: May 01, 2023, 09:35:51 PM »
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  • Paul VI called Vatican II 'magisterium'.  He was wrong.  Popes can be wrong.

    What a trainwreck and a load of nonsense.  If these are legitimate Popes, then their teaching that is clearly directed toward the Universal Church is Magisterium.  Unbelievable.  Claim if you will that it's merely authentic (therefore non-infallible) Magisterium, but it's ridiculous to claim that it's not Magisterium.  To think that an Ecuмenical Council directed to all the faithful is not Magisterium ... :facepalm:

    https://sspx.org/en/clear-ideas-popes-infallible-magisterium

    Offline Miser Peccator

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    Re: Accepting Vatican II
    « Reply #76 on: May 02, 2023, 01:44:31 AM »
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  • Paul VI called Vatican II 'magisterium'.  He was wrong.  Popes can be wrong.  Pope Nicholas I said baptism "in the Name of Christ" is valid.  He was wrong.  He did not cease to be pope.

    Feel free to ask me.  I will try my best to give an answer based on traditional Church teaching.  Or skip me, I'm fallible, and consult Church teaching yourself.

    When a heresy rears its head, it is the pope's strict duty to fight it.  Honorius wrote about the very topic the contemporary heresy was concerned with, and failed to use the opportunity to fight Monothelitism.

    When St. Peter went along with the demands of the Circuмcisionists, he did not say they were right, but he did not use the opportunity to clearly put down the heresy.  That is why St. Paul resisted him publicly--to his face, and Holy Scripture says St. Paul was right.  We are right to resist these popes publicly-- to the face.


    Quote
    NIFH: Paul VI called Vatican II 'magisterium'.  He was wrong.  Popes can be wrong.  Pope Nicholas I said baptism "in the Name of Christ" is valid.  He was wrong.  He did not cease to be pope.

    These "bad popes" or "wrong popes" objections are very reasonable objections.

    In fact this was a concern of Archbishop Purcell at VI so

    he put these "bad popes" on trial and this is how it went:


    (I'm adding spaces to help with reading it)
    "Then I said, you tell us that there were some forty Popes in the early ages, who taught what is now regarded as an erroneous doctrine by some. Cardinal Bellomang [sic — he must have meant Bellarmine] gives us the names of them and tells us what was taught. He tells us what was the nature of their teachings to a great extent.

    Now, says I, there are a great cloud of witnesses over our heads — these forty Popes. I called them one by one, and I said, Honorius, why do you teach that there is but one will of Christ, when there is a divine will of Christ as God, and a human will of Christ as man. Now, why should you say there is but one will? This definition has caused a great deal of trouble. It created schisms and differences of opinions, etc., in the Church. He never should have done so. This was his fault. He should have instructed that the two wills of Christ were not incompatible.


    Then I said to the council, in passing over this subject, here is another of these papers over our heads, as I imagine it was over Nicholas I. He taught that the baptism in the name of Jesus was all-sufficient, without the name of the Father and Holy Ghost. That he should not have taught. He was mistaken in that, and the Church says so now, and that he never should have taught the like. Here is John XXII., who teaches from the pulpit, and wishes others to teach, that those who died in the peace of God with the peace of God on their lips are [sic — the word “not” seems to be missing] in beatific condition until the day of judgment.



    Here, again, three great Bishops of the sixth, seventh, and eighth general councils called Honorius heretical. Were we to consider those teachings ex cathedra on those occasions, and pronounce an anathema? I will not delay you by adverting to other instances of the kind, but I was most happy to hear the entire council, as one man, concerning those of whom I spake, answer me, “Those Popes never addressed such doctrines to the universal Church. They only spoke to individuals. They did not speak as pastors of His universal Church, therefore they did not speak ex cathedra.” I cannot tell you what a load that removed from my mind, when I heard that expression that those teachings were not ex cathedra, and therefore not binding on our action, and that our action would not be retroactive as binding on the teachings of those Bishops.



    I told the Cardinals in the council that there was another and a weightier objection which I wished to have removed before I gave my assent to that dogma, and that was, how we are to understand the claims of Boniface VIII., who said, “Two swords are given me by God — the spiritual and the temporal!” I sought in the Dominican library of the Minerva in Rome to refresh my memory, and to see on what grounds they claim the right of controlling temporary affairs; of deposing Henry VIII. or Elizabeth, or any other temporal prince, and absolving their vassals from their oath of allegiance, if their sovereigns did not respect the act of excommunication by the Church. I could not find any text of authority for that in the Bible.



    Hence I wanted the council to say whether they asserted a right of that kind or assumed it as a right, and the entire council with one voice cried out: “Those Popes had no authority, no commission from God to pretend to any such power.” Well, I told them, Thank God, I have spoken and had it decided by this council, instead of assuming the resposibility of those by-gone times. The day has gone by when such things were possible, and were believed of force, and we have done a great deal by having these two important matters settled."




    (Abp. John B. Purcell, quoted in Rev. James J. McGovern, Life and Life Work of Pope Leo XIII [Chicago, IL: Allied Printing, 1903], pp. 239-241; paragraph breaks added to facilitate reading.)


    According to the response given to an inquiring cardinal at the First Vatican Council, as related by Abp. Purcell:

    • No Pope has ever been a heretic
    • If a Pope were to become a manifest heretic, he would immediately cease to be Pope because he would immediately cease to be a member of the Church
    • He would be deposed not by the Church, which has no authority over the Pope, but by God Himself, who has made membership in the Church dependent upon profession of the true Faith, on which the Church’s unity depends (see Pope Pius XII, Encyclical Mystici Corporis, n. 22)
    • The Church’s bishops  (Note:  the ones who are not apostates) could declare the former Pope to have deposed himself — something that would enable them to remove the non-Pope
    • The very idea of a heretical Pope who nevertheless remains Pope is “injurious” to the papacy and thus to Catholic dogma
    See the full article here: https://novusordowatch.org/2015/04/heretical-popes-first-vatican-council/


    "the very idea of a heretical Pope"----so don't even think about it!  :fryingpan:




    Quote
    NIFH: Feel free to ask me.  I will try my best to give an answer based on traditional Church teaching.

    Okay, so comparing the following two statements, which one do we accept and which one do we throw out?

    One:
    Quote
    Paul VI
    "it still provided its teaching with the
    authority of the supreme ordinary magisterium. This ordinary magisterium, which is so obviously official, has to be accepted with docility, and sincerity by all the faithful"

    (Paul VI, Audience of Jan. 12, 1966; English translation from The Pope Speaks 11, n. 2 [Spring 1966], pp. 152-154; underlining added. Italian original here.)


    Two:
    1870 Vatican Council taught:

    Quote
    All those things are to be believed with divine and Catholic faith which are contained in the Word of God, written or handed down, and are proposed by the Church either by a solemn judgment or by her ordinary and universal magisterium to be believed as divinely revealed.
    (Dogmatic constitution Dei Filius, chapter 3, “Concerning Faith”, Denzinger 1792)

    Which one do we submit to?  Can we throw one out?



    Quote
    NIFH: When St. Peter went along with the demands of the Circuмcisionists, he did not say they were right, but he did not use the opportunity to clearly put down the heresy.  That is why St. Paul resisted him publicly--to his face, and Holy Scripture says St. Paul was right.  We are right to resist these popes publicly-- to the face.


    Here is what St. Robert Bellarmine says about the matter, the great Doctor of the Papacy:
    Quote
    …[W]hen St. Peter compelled the Gentiles to Judaize, this was not an error of preaching but of conduct, as Tertullian suggests in his work de Praescriptionibus adversus haereticos. St. Peter did not ratify by some decree that they must Judaize, rather, he formally taught the contrary in Acts XV. Nevertheless, when he was still in Antioch, he separated himself from the dinner table of the Gentiles lest he would give offense to those recently converted to the faith from the Jєωs and by his example compelled them to Judaize in a certain measure, even Barnabas. But we do not deny that Popes can offer the occasion of erring through their own bad example, rather, we deny that they can prescribe the whole Church to follow some error ex cathedra. Moreover, the examples and doctrines of the Pontiffs are not equally pernicious to the Church, seeing that the Lord instructed them, saying: “Do what they say, but do not do what they do.”
    (St. Robert Bellarmine, , vol. 2
    [/url], trans. by Ryan Grant [Mediatrix Press, 2016], Book IV, Ch. 8, pp. 175-176; italics given; underlining added.)[/font][/color]



    Were you able to find any Magisterial statements that declare we should remain in communion with heretics and apostates?

    Are there any saints who said such things?




    I exposed AB Vigano's public meetings with Crowleyan Satanist Dugin so I ask protection on myself family friends priest, under the Blood of Jesus Christ and mantle of the Blessed Virgin Mary! If harm comes to any of us may that embolden the faithful to speak out all the more so Catholics are not deceived.



    [fon


    Offline Donachie

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    Re: Accepting Vatican II
    « Reply #77 on: May 02, 2023, 01:07:28 PM »
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  • Accepting ... _____________ .... fill-in-the-blank. If "is" refers to  everything and everything refers to "is", the net castings can get quite wide. Some people have asked, "what do you mean by 'is', and others could ask what do you mean by 'pastoral' "?

    Accepting what's "funny" about Vatican II and how funny is it and why? Anybody who hasn't seen that Vatican II is "funny" and not just ha, ha funny, is crazy or stupid or not being honest.

    Offline NIFH

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    Re: Accepting Vatican II
    « Reply #78 on: May 02, 2023, 07:32:58 PM »
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  • To think that an Ecuмenical Council directed to all the faithful is not Magisterium ... :facepalm:
    I'm not aware of a universal and precise definition of what an Ecuмenical Council is.  Briefly, if we judge according to matter, form and intention (which might not be the criterion) I can affirm Vatican II was not an Ecuмenical Council.  Certainly a council (lowercase 'c'--the general English definition), but not an Ecuмenical Council (capital 'C').

    Offline NIFH

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    Re: Accepting Vatican II
    « Reply #79 on: May 02, 2023, 07:49:38 PM »
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  • Here, again, three great Bishops of the sixth, seventh, and eighth general councils called Honorius heretical.

    The
    very idea of a heretical Pope who nevertheless remains Pope is “injurious” to the papacy and thus to Catholic dogma

    Which one do we submit to?  Can we throw one out?

    Were you able to find any Magisterial statements that declare we should remain in communion with heretics and apostates?


    Are there any saints who said such things?
    Materially heretical popes are a sad fact of history.  Formally heretical popes are an impossibility.  They would no longer be pope.

    Vatican I spoke about submitting to universal magisterium.  Universal means:  all places and all times.  Even if the bishops teach heresy in all places today, they have not in all times.  That is not 'universal' magisterium.

    We are not united in any way with formal heretics and apostates.  Solely material heretics are a different case.


    Offline Miser Peccator

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    Re: Accepting Vatican II
    « Reply #80 on: May 02, 2023, 09:27:58 PM »
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  • Materially heretical popes are a sad fact of history.  Formally heretical popes are an impossibility.  They would no longer be pope.

    Vatican I spoke about submitting to universal magisterium.  Universal means:  all places and all times.  Even if the bishops teach heresy in all places today, they have not in all times.  That is not 'universal' magisterium.

    We are not united in any way with formal heretics and apostates.  Solely material heretics are a different case.

    Right.


    Well, in the case of the signers of VII we aren't just talking about heresy, we are talking about total apostasy as defined by Pope Pius XI (as well as other Popes including Pius X).

    Just posting Pius XI again here:


    (Sorry the formatting is wonky. It looks nice on my screen until I publish it and then it shows up quite differently.  Also, I have a difficult time reading so I spread things out and highlight words to keep it straight in my mind. :P)

    Quote
    Has there been an apostasy since Vatican Council II? The answer can be found in the teachings of Pope Pius XI in Mortalium Animos onFostering True Religious Unity, January 6, 1928
    They presuppose the erroneous view that all religions are more or less good and praiseworthy, inasmuch as all give expression, under various forms, to that innate sense which leads men to God and to the obedient acknowledgment of His rule… to favor this opinion, therefore, and to encourage such undertakings, is tantamount to abandoning the religion revealed by God.”



    Quote
    Let us focus attention on the phrase “tantamount to abandoning the religion revealed by God.” This phrase is another definition of the word “apostasy.” According to Pope Pius XI, to hold to false ecuмenism and to encourage it, is equivalent to apostasy.



    Since this is seriously truncated for a forum post, please see the full text here:
    https://cmri.org/articles-on-the-traditional-catholic-faith/the-last-days-and-false-ecuмenism/

    So holding false ecuмanism is apostasy, therefore all the signers of Vatican II apostatized.

    Apostates are no longer members of the Church. They left the Barque of Peter.

    They left and started the church of Chrislam.


    Quote
    Vatican I spoke about submitting to universal magisterium.  Universal means:  all places and all times.  Even if the bishops teach heresy in all places today, they have not in all times.  That is not 'universal' magisterium.
    Actually, this is the definition:


    A teaching of ordinary and universal magisterium is a teaching on which all bishops (including the Pope) universally agree, and is also considered infallible. Such a teaching must also be a part of the sensus fidelium.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magisterium#:~:text=A%20teaching%20of%20ordinary%20and,part%20of%20the%20sensus%20fidelium.
    (That link has the chart (which I posted earlier) and the definitions nicely laid out.  It's Wikipedia but it has the links to the original sources.)

    But Apostates cannot "teach heresy".  They cannot teach anything.  They are not part of any magisterium.  They are outside the Church.  They left the Barque of Peter.


    Quote
    We are not united in any way with formal heretics and apostates.  Solely material heretics are a different case.
    As shown above they are apostates and outside the Barque of Peter.

    Every Holy Sacrifice of the Mass said Una cuм "Pope Demon Worshiper" is in communion with him and his church of Chrislam.

    As shown earlier in this thread, if we are in communion with them we become apostates too.


    Posting again:





    Quote
    St. Cyril of Alexandria echoed these same sentiments when he said, “It is therefore unlawful, and a profanation, and an act the punishment of which is death, to love to associate with unholy heretics, and to unite yourself to their communion.”



    Quote
    Council of Carthage in the fifth century decreed, “One must neither pray nor sing psalms with heretics, and whoever shall communicate with those who are cut off from the communion of the Church, whether clergy or layman: let him be excommunicated.”

    Quote
    St. Thomas Aquinas, said, “To know whom to avoid is a great means of saving our souls…Thus, the Church forbids the faithful to communicate with those unbelievers who have forsaken the faith by corrupting it, such as heretics, or by renouncing it, such as apostates.”

    BTW, I don't know who is downvoting you.  It's not me. I understand that these are difficult subjects and I'm enjoying our discussion and it's helping me learn more as well. :)

    I exposed AB Vigano's public meetings with Crowleyan Satanist Dugin so I ask protection on myself family friends priest, under the Blood of Jesus Christ and mantle of the Blessed Virgin Mary! If harm comes to any of us may that embolden the faithful to speak out all the more so Catholics are not deceived.



    [fon

    Offline Miser Peccator

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    Re: Accepting Vatican II
    « Reply #81 on: May 02, 2023, 09:53:40 PM »
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  • This might also be helpful:



    The Decrees of Vatican II Compared with Past Infallible Church Teachings
    This series of articles studying the heretical teachings of Vatican Council II first appeared in The Reign of Mary several years ago. Its purpose is to show in a side-by-side comparison how the official decrees of Vatican II explicitly contradict past official decrees of the Catholic Church.
    Non-Christian Religions  |  Sacred Scripture  |  Education  |  Religious Liberty  |  Liturgy



    https://cmri.org/articles-on-the-traditional-catholic-faith/the-decrees-of-vatican-ii-on-ecuмenism-compared-with-past-infallible-church-teachings/

    I exposed AB Vigano's public meetings with Crowleyan Satanist Dugin so I ask protection on myself family friends priest, under the Blood of Jesus Christ and mantle of the Blessed Virgin Mary! If harm comes to any of us may that embolden the faithful to speak out all the more so Catholics are not deceived.



    [fon

    Offline NIFH

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    Re: Accepting Vatican II
    « Reply #82 on: May 02, 2023, 10:04:06 PM »
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  • So holding false ecuмanism is apostasy, therefore all the signers of Vatican II apostatized.

    Actually, this is the definition:



    A teaching of ordinary and universal magisterium is a teaching on which all bishops (including the Pope) universally agree, and is also considered infallible. Such a teaching must also be a part of the sensus fidelium.
    Those who signed on to religious liberty in Dignitatis Humanae signed objective apostasy.  Subjective apostasy would require that they knew what they were doing.  Some probably understood the ramifications of the text, others did not.  Only God knows who was signing that text and really intending to abandon Tradition.  These poor Modernists are all the time proclaiming the opposite; that they are accepting Dignitatis Humanae and therefore faithful to the Holy Catholic Church.  Some may be liars, others I assume in charity to be honestly deeply mistaken.  It is not easy to see what you and I see when almost everyone in the world says the opposite.

    In the definition you provided, find the phrase 'universally agree'.  Immediately our minds think about all the bishops of the world, but the term 'universally' also means all the bishops and popes in history.  The bishops today say the opposite of what the universal magisterium really is.


    Offline Miser Peccator

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    Re: Accepting Vatican II
    « Reply #83 on: May 02, 2023, 10:26:50 PM »
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  • Those who signed on to religious liberty in Dignitatis Humanae signed objective apostasy.  Subjective apostasy would require that they knew what they were doing.  Some probably understood the ramifications of the text, others did not.  Only God knows who was signing that text and really intending to abandon Tradition.  These poor Modernists are all the time proclaiming the opposite; that they are accepting Dignitatis Humanae and therefore faithful to the Holy Catholic Church.  Some may be liars, others I assume in charity to be honestly deeply mistaken.  It is not easy to see what you and I see when almost everyone in the world says the opposite.

    In the definition you provided, find the phrase 'universally agree'.  Immediately our minds think about all the bishops of the world, but the term 'universally' also means all the bishops and popes in history.  The bishops today say the opposite of what the universal magisterium really is.

    Can you share any infallible statements defining subjective apostasy?
    Is there anything stating that we should remain in communion with subjective apostates?


    Quote
    "It is not easy to see what you and I see when almost everyone in the world says the opposite."

    The First Commandment is very simple. They were taught it before First Communion:
    I am the Lord thy God. Thou shalt not have strange gods before me.

    Besides, they had previous Popes define ecuмanism/indifferentism as apostasy.



    Quote
    "The bishops today say the opposite of what the universal magisterium really is." 

    That's apostasy.

    To Deny One Dogma Is to Separate Yourself from Christ

    I exposed AB Vigano's public meetings with Crowleyan Satanist Dugin so I ask protection on myself family friends priest, under the Blood of Jesus Christ and mantle of the Blessed Virgin Mary! If harm comes to any of us may that embolden the faithful to speak out all the more so Catholics are not deceived.



    [fon

    Offline Miser Peccator

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    Re: Accepting Vatican II
    « Reply #84 on: May 02, 2023, 10:40:42 PM »
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  • Quote
    The question was also raised by a Cardinal, “What is to be done with the Pope if he becomes a heretic?” It was answered that there has never been such a case; the Council of Bishops could depose him for heresy, for from the moment he becomes a heretic he is not the head or even a member of the Church. The Church would not be, for a moment, obliged to listen to him when he begins to teach a doctrine the Church knows to be a false doctrine, and he would cease to be Pope, being deposed by God Himself.
    If the Pope, for instance, were to say that the belief in God is false, you would not be obliged to believe him, or if he were to deny the rest of the creed, “I believe in Christ,” etc. The supposition is injurious to the Holy Father in the very idea, but serves to show you the fullness with which the subject has been considered and the ample thought given to every possibility. If he denies any dogma of the Church held by every true believer, he is no more Pope than either you or I; and so in this respect the dogma of infallibility amounts to nothing as an article of temporal government or cover for heresy.
    (Abp. John B. Purcell, quoted in Rev. James J. McGovern, Life and Life Work of Pope Leo XIII [Chicago, IL: Allied Printing, 1903], p. 241)

    This isn’t difficult to understand. As the words in red bold print clearly reveal, the question that was asked, considered, and responded to was what would happen if the Pope were to depart from the Faith himself, if he were to become a hereticnot if he were to attempt to define as dogma something that is heretical. The two questions are somewhat related, of course, but it is nonsense and calumnious to accuse us of somehow “twisting” the text — the text is as plain as it could be.

    What would happen if the Pope should start professing heresy? He would cease to be Pope, that’s what, just as any other Catholic who begins to profess heresy would cease being a member of the Church! And as we likewise explained in our last post on this — and this is something our critics have so far ignored — the reason for this is that the Church cannot be divided in her Faith; she has but one Faith, as she has but one Lord and one baptism (see Eph 4:4).

    It is impossible to profess a different religion and still be a member — much less head — of the Catholic Church: “Actually only those are to be included as members of the Church who have been baptized and profess the true faith…” (Pope Pius XII, Encyclical Mystici Corporis, n. 22).


    All of this couldn’t be more clear. Besides, in the quote by Abp. Purcell, as reproduced above, the keywords are not “define” or “declare”, but rather, “becomes [a heretic]”, “say”, and “deny”. We are clearly talking about a Pope becoming a heretic, a Pope who professes or fails to profess a particular teaching;


    we are not talking about a Pope who attempts to define heresy infallibly. True, the text also says that the Church “would not be … obliged to listen to him when he begins to teach” a heresy, but of course this is true as well, because he is then no longer Pope,

    as the rest of the quote painstakingly points out. Obviously the hypothetical scenario of a Pope who is a heretic brings with it the scenario of such a Pope teaching his heresy. That’s why the text speaks about a Pope both being a heretic and teaching heresy — and in that very order.

    https://novusordowatch.org/2015/04/vatican-i-popes-follow-up/
    I exposed AB Vigano's public meetings with Crowleyan Satanist Dugin so I ask protection on myself family friends priest, under the Blood of Jesus Christ and mantle of the Blessed Virgin Mary! If harm comes to any of us may that embolden the faithful to speak out all the more so Catholics are not deceived.



    [fon

    Offline NIFH

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    Re: Accepting Vatican II
    « Reply #85 on: May 03, 2023, 08:20:02 PM »
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  • Can you share any infallible statements defining subjective apostasy?
    Is there anything stating that we should remain in communion with subjective apostates?


    The First Commandment is very simple. They were taught it before First Communion:
    I am the Lord thy God. Thou shalt not have strange gods before me.

    Besides, they had previous Popes define ecuмanism/indifferentism as apostasy.
    No communion with subjective apostates, they are outside the Church.  A person might sign a docuмent that constitutes objective apostasy without understanding what the ramifications of the text are and without meaning to betray Jesus Christ.  In a normal situation these people would be confronted by the authorities who would point out the meaning of the text, and hopefully the signers would say, "Yikes!  Scratch out my signature!"  Today the authorities would never point it out.

    It is important to get a glimpse of just how messed up these Modernist clerics' minds are.  From a young age and also during their seminary formation they were taught existentialist philosophy, by which there is no such thing as a definition.  Imagine living with that idea.  They have been taught that Holy Tradition changes with the times, and embracing false religions is not against the First Commandment because the 'church of Christ' subsists in them also.  From a young age!  Add to that the fact that cardinals and popes around the world do not condemn these errors, it is very easy for me to imagine many poor Modernists today thinking they are faithful orthodox Catholics.  How wrong they are!  Yet while they are objective apostates, they manifest a desire to be faithful to Jesus Christ.  That makes them very confused persons, not formal apostates.


    Offline NIFH

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    Re: Accepting Vatican II
    « Reply #86 on: May 03, 2023, 08:27:24 PM »
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  • The quote about a pope 'becoming a heretic' is about a pope becoming a formal heretic.  He would cease to be pope.  Formal heresy is, "The Church says X, but I say Y."

    Purely material heresy could be, "the Church says Y, and I also say Y."  This person obviously has a wrong idea of what the Church teaches and does not intend to contradict the Church.  He says a heresy, but thinks it's Church teaching.  He does not subjectively leave the Church.

    Offline AnthonyPadua

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    Re: Accepting Vatican II
    « Reply #87 on: May 03, 2023, 08:35:08 PM »
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  • The quote about a pope 'becoming a heretic' is about a pope becoming a formal heretic.  He would cease to be pope.  Formal heresy is, "The Church says X, but I say Y."

    Purely material heresy could be, "the Church says Y, and I also say Y."  This person obviously has a wrong idea of what the Church teaches and does not intend to contradict the Church.  He says a heresy, but thinks it's Church teaching.  He does not subjectively leave the Church.
    What about notoriety by fact? It's very clear that some v2 'popes' have publicly worshipped with false religions. And also published heretical docuмents.

    Offline NIFH

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    Re: Accepting Vatican II
    « Reply #88 on: May 03, 2023, 09:15:09 PM »
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  • What about notoriety by fact? It's very clear that some v2 'popes' have publicly worshipped with false religions. And also published heretical docuмents.
    For example, take John Paul II kissing the Koran.  Go down to the basement and stand next to your punching bag before you look up that photo.

    Blatant objective apostasy.  Public also.  How can a man wear a white cassock and kiss the Koran?  Well they think that all of these false religions contain 'seeds of the "Word"'.  Many elements of the Catholic Religion are shared by our brothers in Islam.  The Holy Ghost does not hesitate to use these elements as a means of saving our Islamic brethren, and the 'Church of Christ' subsists in Islamism to the degree that these elements are found there.

    Pardon me while I get bandages for my knuckles.

    Don't try too hard to understand this junk; if you understand, you have a diseased mind.

    These poor popes have diseased minds to be able to do such things all while professing allegiance to Jesus Christ and His Church.  We must pray.

    Offline Miser Peccator

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    Re: Accepting Vatican II
    « Reply #89 on: May 04, 2023, 04:24:35 PM »
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  • I exposed AB Vigano's public meetings with Crowleyan Satanist Dugin so I ask protection on myself family friends priest, under the Blood of Jesus Christ and mantle of the Blessed Virgin Mary! If harm comes to any of us may that embolden the faithful to speak out all the more so Catholics are not deceived.



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