In view of the pastoral nature of the Council, it avoided any extraordinary statement of dogmas that would be endowed with the note of infallibility, but it still provided its teaching with the authority of the supreme ordinary magisterium. This ordinary magisterium, which is so obviously official, has to be accepted with docility, and sincerity by all the faithful,

This is one of the 586 million examples of Modernist clergy trying to call Vatican II 'magisterium'.  Remember the universality in time again.  The council contradicts the magisterium of 19 centuries, and is therefore not magisterium at all.

This is one of the 586 million examples of Modernist clergy trying to call Vatican II 'magisterium'.  Remember the universality in time again.  The council contradicts the magisterium of 19 centuries, and is therefore not magisterium at all.

Pius X would call "modernist clergy"

"apostate clergy".

First off, that's wrong, he just must know what the Church teaches, he doesn't have to say it.

If he knows, he is subjectively a heretic, in the state of mortal sin.  The Church cannot judge if he knows or not, only God can.  De internis non judicat ecclesia.  If he tells us he knows that he's contradicting the Church, he becomes a formal heretic.  This is what is needed for a pope to lose his office.

Cardinal Ratzinger was famous for his mistaken concept of Tradition.  He thought Church teaching could grow and change under the influence of the people's studies and 'religious experiences'.  This is why he thought he could say, "The Church taught X and now She teaches Y."  This is different from formal heresy:  "The Church teaches X but I say Y."  He was materially a heretic, God knows whether subjectively or not, but not a formal heretic.

They think they are following the evolution of Church teaching, which now embraces false religions.  Objectively it is apostasy.  Subjectively they proclaim to want to follow what they imagine to be the teaching of the Church.  This is not formal heresy, and does not make them lose office.

Ah yes, they are imaginary Catholics

promoting the worship of false gods

in an imaginary catholic church

because they have been deposed by Divine Law.



If somebody believes they are a dog

do we go along and give them bones?

Madness!

Objectively they are human

even though subjectively they believe they are a dog.

Well these poor prelates are objectively NOT Catholic.

We are not to play along with their delusion.

We are to have nothing to do with them.

We owe no obedience to any apostate much less

delusional apostates

or their church of Chrislam.

"But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach a gospel to you besides that which we have preached to you, let him be anathema".

On the contrary, we keep a good distance, build our own emergency chapels, and condemn their errors loudly and unflinchingly.

The supposed 'Church teachings' they follow are imaginary.  Whether or not they have subjectively left the True Church neither you nor I nor anyone but God can judge.  Objectively, however, there is no doubt about it.

Why do you need to keep a distance from your own pope?


Now you make yourself pope and try to judge which teachings you will submit to, whether they be Ex-Cathedra or

Ordinary Magisterium,

and which ones you won't

and you are in schism:




(emphasis on the word "legitimate")

So the title of this thread could be

"To schism or not to schism, that is the question!"

Why do you resist their authority??

Why would anybody need to keep distance from their pope?

That's a very anti-Catholic notion!

Didn't Jesus promise they would not fail?

"He that heareth you, heareth me" Luke 10:16

The pope and the bishops in union with the pope are the voice of the Church. This voice is used in order to teach each day. Listen to Pope Pius XI stating it with his authority:

“The teaching authority of the Church in the divine wisdom was constituted on earth in order that the revealed doctrines might remain forever intact and might be brought with ease and security to the knowledge of men.”

https://cmri.org/articles-on-the-traditional-catholic-faith/papal-infallibility-and-the-crisis-in-the-church-today/

(Note:  Is the First Commandment part of revealed doctrines to remain intact forever???)


Are you keeping your distance until the Church is "restored" to her former glory? 






Restoration and Regeneration?

I've heard conservative and trad priests and pundits talk about waiting for a

a good pope

a "Catholic" pope

who will one day restore and regenerate the Church and its teachings.

Yeah, that's not how it works. 

There have been sinful popes but not heretical popes.

Besides, how is it possible that you are qualified to judge magisterial teachings

but you are not qualified to see that they are apostates

who left the Catholic Church?

You know Pius X and other popes declared indifferentism is apostasy, right?

Didn't all those prelates at VII sign docuмents declaring indifferentism to the whole world?

That really happened.

They put their name on it.

As you said, objectively there is no doubt they are apostates.


The dangerous problem is, if we worship in union with apostates who promote the worship of false gods

we also apostatize.

Yikes!

Therefore we must be qualified to know they are apostates or we cannot possibly avoid this mortal sin and our own removal from the One True Church.

The Council of Laodicea in 365 AD stated, “No one shall pray in common with heretics and schismatics.”

But how do we know?  What if they worship demons in St Peter's Basilica but deep inside believe they are still Catholic?

They might be a formal demon worshiper but not subjectively believe in their heart and mind that demon worship is not opposed the Catholic faith after all.

What if they believe Allah is God the Father but inside their heart of hearts still believe they are Catholic?

sniff, sniff...ugh! 

I wouldn't try that argument with God on judgement day.  smh

St. Cyril of Alexandria echoed these same sentiments when he said, “It is therefore unlawful, and a profanation, and an act the punishment of which is death, to love to associate with unholy heretics, and to unite yourself to their communion.”

Unite ourselves to their communion??  Like "una cuм"?

Whoah...

But St Cyril, how can we tell?  What if they say Hindu's believe in God the Father  but on the inside they subjectively still believe they are truly Catholic? We simply can't judge such things subjectively can we?   

Council of Carthage in the fifth century decreed, “One must neither pray nor sing psalms with heretics, and whoever shall communicate with those who are cut off from the communion of the Church, whether clergy or layman: let him be excommunicated.”

That's scary!  Well, it's a good thing we are completely off the hook on this one because
"Whether or not they have subjectively left the True Church neither you nor I nor anyone but God can judge."

Well God will judge their internal forum but we know that Divine law causes them to be

ipso facto removed from the Church,

which means we should not continue to stay in communion with them and their false religion.

St. Thomas Aquinas, said, “To know whom to avoid is a great means of saving our souls…Thus, the Church forbids the faithful to communicate with those unbelievers who have forsaken the faith by corrupting it, such as heretics, or by renouncing it, such as apostates.”

Forsaken the faith...yep we all saw that! 

That makes them unbelievers?

Hmm.."communicate with those unbelievers"

as in worship "una cuм"?

As in remain in communion with?

As in celebrate Holy Mass "una cuм" the demon worshiper and his false church that promotes worshiping false gods?

As in communion with those who say Allah is God the Father and Hindu's also worship God the Father?

We are forbidden to communicate with those unbelievers?

So all the V2 prelates

publicly declared themselves to be unbelievers

and we are forbidden

to communicate with them

or any of the esteemed prelates following in their footsteps with their false religion?

Wait, but did they really leave?

Aren't they just in partial communion?  Kind of, sort of...

They presuppose the erroneous view that all religions are more or less good and praiseworthy, inasmuch as all give expression, under various forms, to that innate sense which leads men to God and to the obedient acknowledgment of His rule… to favor this opinion, therefore, and to encourage such undertakings, is tantamount to abandoning the religion revealed by God.”

Let us focus attention on the phrase “tantamount to abandoning the religion revealed by God.” This phrase is another definition of the word “apostasy.” According to Pope Pius XI, to hold to false ecuмenism and to encourage it, is equivalent to apostasy.

Yep.  They really left.  They left the Barque.

Elvis...

all the prelates who signed on to VII have left the building---

they left the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church.

The Sedes didn't leave.  They left.

It was the GREAT APOSTASY

It really happened.

It's sad. Really sad!  It requires processing the five stages of grief to accept.

But it's the truth.

Our Lord told us this was coming:

“…for the day of the Lord will not come unless the

Apostasy comes first

and the man of sin is revealed… so that he sits in the temple of God… for the mystery of iniquity is already at work; provided only that

he who is at present restraining it,

does still restrain, until he is gotten out of the way” (II Thess. 2:3-4).

So the Great Apostasy comes first and then the RESTRAINER

is gotten out of the way.

Who is the restrainer??  The Katechon.

That would be the pope.

He's gotten out of the way.

Removed.

Sede vacante...




So anyway, we have to make judgements about whom we will pray

in union with (una cuм)

and are clearly qualified to do so

lest we apostatize ourselves!

We must not only distance ourselves from apostates,

we must not worship in union with apostates.

We must not obey apostates.

We must not encourage others to worship in union with or obey apostates.

We must not call them priests or bishops or popes.

We must not recognize them as any kind of authority.

We must see apostates for what they truly are.

Apostates are no longer members of the Church.

They are outside the Barque.



It is our responsibility to protect our soul.

God will judge their internal forum on the grounds of "subjectively"

and Divine law automatically deposes them.



Pope Innocent III:

“The Pope should not flatter himself about his power nor should he rashly glory in his honor and high estate, because the less he is judged by man, the more he is judged by God. Still the less can the Roman Pontiff glory because he can be judged by men, or rather, can be shown to be already judged, if for example he should wither away into heresy; because he who does not believe is already judged, In such a case it should be said of him: ‘If salt should lose its savor, it is good for nothing but to be cast out and trampled under foot by men.’”

already judged

good for nothing



A. Vermeersch — Epitome Iuris Canonici, 1949

“At least according to the more common teaching; the Roman Pontiff as

 a private teacher can fall into manifest heresy. Then, without any

 declaratory sentence (for the Supreme See is judged by no one), he

 would automatically (ipso facto) fall from power which he who is

 no longer a member of the Church is unable to possess.”

without declaratory sentence

automatically

ipso facto



Edward F. Regatillo — Institutiones Iuris Canonici, 1956

“‘The pope loses office ipso facto because of public heresy.’ This is the more common teaching, because a pope would not be a member of the Church, and hence far less could he be its head.”

ipso facto



Billot — De Ecclesia, 1927

“Given, therefore, the hypothesis of a pope who would become notoriously heretical, one must concede without hesitation that he would by that very fact lose the pontifical power, insofar as, having become an unbeliever, he would by his own will be cast outside the body of the Church.”

by that very fact

by his own will



St. Francis de Sales:

“Now when the Pope is explicitly a heretic, he falls ipso facto from his dignity and out of the Church . . . ”

ipso facto

out of the Church


St. Robert Bellarmine:

“A Pope who is a manifest heretic automatically ceases to be a Pope and head, just as he ceases automatically to be a Christian and a member of the Church. Wherefore, he can be judged and punished by the Church. This is the teaching of all the ancient Fathers who teach that manifest heretics immediately lose all jurisdiction.”

ceases automatically

not a Christian

not a member of the Church

lost all jurisdiction


"But they haven't been declared heretics formally by the "false" church..."

First why would the false church declare them heretics?  They won't.

On the contrary, they declare them saints!

But how can we be sure they really are heretics?

It's not hard.


"A manifest heretic is someone whose error or doubt in faith cannot be hidden by any excuse".

It's certainly not hidden and there is no excuse.


You don't need a degree in theology to know the First Commandment.

Yeah, there is no excuse for worshiping false gods

or encouraging others to worship false gods.

and there is no excuse for those who are in communion

with those who do so.

It's just the Freemasonic One World Chrislam church of the nwo, Inc.

Count me out!

God counts them out of the True Church and I'm with Him:

St. Alphonsus Liguori:

“If ever a Pope, as a private person, should fall into heresy, he should at once fall from the Pontificate. If, however, God were to permit a pope to become a notorious and contumacious heretic, he would by such fact cease to be pope, and the apostolic chair would be vacant.”

by such fact

cease to be pope

at once

chair vacant

St. Antoninus:

“In the case in which the Pope would become a heretic, he would find himself, by that very fact alone and without any other sentence, separated from the Church. A head separated from a body cannot, as long as it remains separated, be head of the same body from which it was cut off.”

by that fact alone

without any other sentence

separated from the Church

cut off!!

You can see more quotes here:
https://cmri.org/articles-on-the-traditional-catholic-faith/quotes-from-theologians-supporting-the-sedevacantist-position/


So it's really not very confusing at all.

It's very, very simple and easy to see.

It's just hard to accept...

but it's GOOD NEWS!

Why???

Because otherwise, the popes and the Catholic Church are leading souls to Hell

and Jesus was a liar.

No.  Jesus was not a liar.

The One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church is still here.

The deposit of the faith is being preserved.

That other thing is a false church and false religion of apostates.

Time to get out!


see this for more on the beauty of the true papacy:

Now you make yourself pope and try to judge which teachings you will submit to, whether they be Ex-Cathedra or

Ordinary Magisterium,

and which ones you won't.

Why would anybody need to keep distance from their pope?

There have been sinful popes but not heretical popes.

"A manifest heretic is someone whose error or doubt in faith cannot be hidden by any excuse".

It's certainly not hidden and there is no excuse.

Everyone chooses between Vatican II and the teachings of 19 centuries.  The two options exclude one another.  Try to understand the universality in time.  Vatican II is not magisterium even if you say so with bold font.

We keep distance because of their heretical notions.

Read about Pope Honorius.  He was a Monothelitist.  After his death he was denounced by the Church as a miserable pope.  You will find him listed in the Annuario Pontificio to this day.

The recent materially heretical popes have a mistaken concept of Tradition.  This does not make their heresies true, but may very well excuse them subjectively.  They had false teachers in their seminary training, poor things.  Judge not that ye may not be judged.  Once they admit that they are contradicting the Church, we got 'em.

Never mind Vatican II. They're already galloping through Vatican III. That's what's really on the table for acceptance.

Permanent synodality yet without even the facade anymore of decisions reached after debate and deliberation by bishops. Now, laypeople too will have equal standing in legislative say over the direction that conciliarism henceforth takes. Not just any laypeople, but progressive busybodies hand-picked by the least Catholic of the nominally Catholic hierarchy.