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Author Topic: Abp Lefebvre Talking About Rome in 1987 (93 sec.)  (Read 816 times)

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Offline apollo

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Abp Lefebvre Talking About Rome in 1987 (93 sec.)
« on: July 24, 2018, 05:12:03 PM »
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  • Every Catholic needs to see this (only 93 seconds) ...



    It proves the the New SSPX is deceiving us.


    Offline Mega-fin

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    Re: Abp Lefebvre Talking About Rome in 1987 (93 sec.)
    « Reply #1 on: July 24, 2018, 07:03:24 PM »
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  • But it doesn’t matter anymore, they like us now!!
    Please disregard everything I have said; I have tended to speak before fact checking.


    Offline GrottoAl

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    Re: Abp Lefebvre Talking About Rome in 1987 (93 sec.)
    « Reply #2 on: August 13, 2018, 06:21:40 PM »
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  • Hi everyone. So I am new to Tradition, and new to all this (SSPX). I started attending mass w/ the SSPX in Armada several years ago now when Fr. Brucciani was still there. I received Communion at an SSPX mass for the 1st time at St Anne's in Livonia, that was after a lifetime in the NO Church. It's a small community so you can imagine my nervousness in posting here. However, my motives are pure I believe, and so I will not hesitate to try and be public about my take on things if necessary.

       I started attending the Society regularly before my Mother passed away in 2015. I started going because I felt like I was in 2 different churches in NO land. They gave me a love for the TLM however, and that church will always be my spiritual home. I looked for years for a  parish before calling it home, I attended there for ten years, and I was out of the Church for 20. I am a revert.

       I don't have a lot of encouraging things to say right now, but my health is a huge part of this. I take personally that is, to the heart what is happening in the Church, as I know I was a part of the problem for many years. I care what happens to souls, even my own and that wasn't always true.

       I have attended the CMRI and I have sympathized greatly with the the sedes. Vatican Council One however, has made sedevacantism a tougher road to hoe. I am doing my level best as a cradle Catholic that fell away and came back, to follow what I believe is the best course in all of this. My cards are, so to say ... on the table. I have no reason to hide or be sneaky/ deceptive. There is no hidden agenda to attack or defend what is error. If I see truth I will acknowledge it on my side. My conscience is clear on this point.


       I was disheartened at best when I started attending the Society and someone told me that the (The Society) agrees w/ 95 % of Vatican II. Really? So the good Archbishop Lefebvre risked excommunication for 5 % error he could have fought inside of the system? I don't listen to too much of what this person says.

    I am showing you how I, a relative outsider was influenced when I started attending SSPX mass.

       I say all of this simply to say this. What is happening right now in the Church is heartbreaking. It is a fact, I grew up in the NO Church. When I came back it was due to a book I read. That reversion, that decision, was made never knowing what was going on in Holy Mother Church. I thank God now, I did not know then what I am seeing now. I may have lost my nerve to return.

       Having said all this, if the Society sticks to their guns and it looks like they could reunite w/ Rome, well...I will try to attend their masses as far as I am able. I don't like the idea of them returning to Rome, i.e. to the conciliar Church. As a matter of fact it breaks my heart. But if it did happen I would be happy for one reason, one reason alone. I still have a lot of friends on the other side of all this in the NO Church, and they too do not know what is going on.

       I traveled a bit after I returned to the Church. I have received the sacraments in Kentucky and Ohio. In Missouri and in Wisconsin. I have no doubt been extremely blessed for this, and I earned not a minute of it. God has been very good to this sinner, and I believe in my heart of hearts He will prevail.

       The work that the Society has done will in my opinion not be erased. Mind you, it is only my opinion. The NO Church I came from had the NO mass ad orientem, they received the Blessed Sacrament kneeling at the Communion railing and they had confession before every mass. Not even every SSPX Chapel I go to has daily mass AND Daily confession. That's the Truth although they do try to do it, it is not always possible. Those people at that NO Church are maybe or maybe not aware of the ramifications of all of this business with the Society. Maybe God wants this reunion to happen, or not. But I hope and really do hope, that if the SSPX does reunite w/ Rome, it will mark the start of what needs to happen, the bringing back of the Catholic Faith to the Catholic Church. I understand though that even saying this is impossible. And that is the trouble. By definition, the Catholic Church cannot abdicate from the Faith. It is impossible. I wish I had the Archbisops understanding of things. He seems like such a good person to me. At a time in his life when most men are hanging it up, he started a seminary. Unreal. To keep the Church receiving the sacraments and keep priests in the Church to say mass, well...it impresses me much.

       As I said, I 'd like to see the reunion for one reason only. To give Tradition a fighting chance, to encourage those in the NO Church that still cling to Tradition. They are out there, I know. But it is getting harder to understand what has happened. Tougher to believe that the Conciliar Church IS Catholic. That is my struggle. There is no way on God's green Earth I should ever have to sift this out. Rome should be Rome and that Should be the end of it. But that is not what is going on.

    RNR seems the most illogical conclusion there is. Personally sedeprivationism seems in line with what is going on. I admit I am not an authority on all this, so please remember that. I am simply trying to understand what has happened to the Church.

       The SSPX and the SSPX MC and all the rest of them would have a lot more priests if they would all unite and stop splintering off from each other. Divide and conquer is something I have heard before.

       At the end of the day I am trying to keep the Faith. I have my faults. I was damaged severely in a very difficult family circuмstance way before I was ready for it. I have my own demons to fight and I do try and fight them. I have little family left who still speak to me but this was not my decision, it is theirs.
    If there is no Heaven than this is all a joke anyways. A really bad one. I know Hell is real. I am hoping some of these "Princes of the Church" start believing it too, after all it is the teaching of their own Church.

    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: Abp Lefebvre Talking About Rome in 1987 (93 sec.)
    « Reply #3 on: August 14, 2018, 06:47:22 AM »
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  • GrottoAl, as a life long trad myself, most of those years an SSPXer (had to leave temporarily in the mid 80s due to sedeism dividing the faithful), Armada, now Ray Twp, is the Chapel I attend and can tell you that it is still one of the good SSPX chapels in the USA. Perhaps because Armada was the first SSPX chapel established in the USA? I don't know, but for you for now, that is what is important. Regardless of what's going on between SSPX and Rome, for now for you, knowing you're getting the True Mass and sacraments and the sermons are solid at that chapel is really all that matters.

    As far as wishing for a reunion, forget it, the FSSP already gave their pinch of incense, abandoned the battle and united with Rome the day after +ABL consecrated the four bishops, they are there for our example, showing that there can be no reunion with Rome until Rome converts - 30 years later, the FSSP is still under modernist Rome's thumb and still has no bishop. Rome must convert before any deal can be made, any deal made with current Rome will only be suicidal for the SSPX.

    Fr. Wathen:
    People should know that attending the Indult Mass represents a very serious compromise of their faith. Before a bishop allows the Traditional Latin Mass in one of his Novus Ordo churches, according to papal direction, he exacts this commitment: Those to whom the Mass is made available must give a verbal acceptance to the Second Vatican Council and to the new mass. Whether they know it or not, everyone who attends the Indult Mass makes the same implicit commitment. In the days of the Rome persecutions, a Catholic could escape martyrdom if he would burn the tiniest pinch of incense before one of the countless Roman gods. The commitment which the pope and bishops require is that pinch of incense.
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse