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Author Topic: About Fr. Pfeiffer "outstanding" sermon, the facts  (Read 8152 times)

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Offline Louis

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About Fr. Pfeiffer "outstanding" sermon, the facts
« on: May 07, 2014, 07:07:58 PM »
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  • (Sorry but I had the repost my comments, its was drowned in another discussion)



    Fr Pfeiffer sermon is no good at all! During this sermon, Fr. says many errors and calumnies that were refuted before and during the Vatican Council (1870) by great Catholic authors.

    I give you an example. Between 18:27 and 19:27, Fr. is talking about the denial of Saint Peter explaining that the first Pope denied Our Lord, so a pope can fell in heresy. That is not true! This is a calumny that was refuted many times before and Fr. Pfeiffer is refuted by the great Dom Guéranger in his book the The Papal Monarchy

    This book is not just merely an opinion. It was giving a brief by Pius IX himself saying:

    "Brief from Pope Pius IX
    To Our dear son Prosper Guéranger, of the Benedictine Congregation of France, Abbot of Solesmes

    PIUS IX, SUPREME PONTIFF.

    Dear son, greetings and Our apostolic blessing (...)
    (...) For this reason they boldly advance certain pernicious doctrines which have been condemned repeatedly, as if there could be no doubt about them, or as though they could be freely taught, at least; from old proponents of these doctrines they scrape together historical quibbles, mutilated passages, calumnies hurled at the Roman Pontiffs, and all sorts of sophistries. With the utmost impudence they bring all these things up again, completely setting aside the solid arguments with which they have been refuted a hundred times. Their purpose is to agitate minds and to incite the men of their faction and the ignorant crowd against the general consensus of the others."  

    You can read the brief of the Pope on this link:
    http://www.loretopubs.org/papal-monarchy-the.html


    I didn't find the book in English on the web, but in French at page 97-98 Dom Guéranger refute this Gallican lie that Saint Peter the Pope denied Jesus because he was no Pope at that time, he had only the promise of the Papacy.

    Our Lord talk to him in the future when saying: "And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." Saint Peter was officially Pope after the Resurrection when Our Lord talks to him at the present tense: " Feed my lambs, Feed my sheep".

    For those knowing French:
    http://www.liberius.net/livres/De_la_monarchie_pontificale_000000116.pdf

    Never, before 1958, did a Pope been an heretic. If someone says so it is because they are repeating lies and calumnies that was first invented by the Schismatic Greeks, repeated by the Renaissance men, the Encyclopedists of the XVIIIth century and the Gallicans and sadly by the SSPX today. I never read or heard Archbishop Lefebvre saying those refuted calumnies, but the SSPX has always been more liberal that its founder!


    Offline Mithrandylan

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    About Fr. Pfeiffer "outstanding" sermon, the facts
    « Reply #1 on: May 07, 2014, 07:11:56 PM »
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  • I must say, I'm not sure if starting ANOTHER thread about this is a great idea...

    "Be kind; do not seek the malicious satisfaction of having discovered an additional enemy to the Church... And, above all, be scrupulously truthful. To all, friends and foes alike, give that serious attention which does not misrepresent any opinion, does not distort any statement, does not mutilate any quotation. We need not fear to serve the cause of Christ less efficiently by putting on His spirit". (Vermeersch, 1913).


    Offline JPaul

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    About Fr. Pfeiffer "outstanding" sermon, the facts
    « Reply #2 on: May 07, 2014, 09:04:56 PM »
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  • I don't know? Was it so "outstanding" as to warrant another thread?

    Offline Sigismund

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    About Fr. Pfeiffer "outstanding" sermon, the facts
    « Reply #3 on: May 07, 2014, 09:17:39 PM »
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  • It seems to me that St. Peter denying Our Lord was a sin, not a heresy anyway.
    Stir up within Thy Church, we beseech Thee, O Lord, the Spirit with which blessed Josaphat, Thy Martyr and Bishop, was filled, when he laid down his life for his sheep: so that, through his intercession, we too may be moved and strengthen by the same Spir

    Offline Sigfrid

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    About Fr. Pfeiffer "outstanding" sermon, the facts
    « Reply #4 on: May 08, 2014, 06:36:39 AM »
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  • He also once said that St. Peter cutting off the guards ear was somehow equivalent to heresy since he removed his ability to hear the truth (apparently he doesn't understand that one can still hear with one functioning and one mutilated ear). I found that rather strange.


    Offline Centroamerica

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    About Fr. Pfeiffer "outstanding" sermon, the facts
    « Reply #5 on: May 08, 2014, 01:43:15 PM »
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  • Actually, the SSPX have several reports about Galican errors. They don't promote or accept Galican errors at all.
    We conclude logically that religion can give an efficacious and truly realistic answer to the great modern problems only if it is a religion that is profoundly lived, not simply a superficial and cheap religion made up of some vocal prayers and some ceremonies...

    Offline Louis

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    About Fr. Pfeiffer "outstanding" sermon, the facts
    « Reply #6 on: May 08, 2014, 06:43:33 PM »
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  • Quote
    Actually, the SSPX have several reports about Galican errors. They don't promote or accept Galican errors at all.


    Centroamerica, just read the book The Papal Monarchy of Dom Guéranger and you will tell me after that if the SSPX or the "Resistance" don't promote or accept Gallican errors at all.

    How can you be wrong with this book?

    "Therefore, in Our estimation, you have rendered an extremely useful service to the Church by undertaking to refute the main propositions in writings of that sort, and by demonstrating their hostile, impetuous, and contrived character; you have accomplished this with such solid arguments, such brilliance, and such an abundance of evidence drawn from sacred antiquity and ecclesiastical science, that – conveying many things in few words – you have proved empty the pretense of wisdom of those who have wrapped their opinions in ignorant talk. In re-establishing the truth of the Faith, of right reason, and of history, you have acted in the interests of believers, whether learned or uneducated. We express therefore Our gratitude to you for the gift of this volume, and We predict an auspicious and very wide circulation of the work which you have produced by lamplight. As an augury of this success and as a pledge of Our paternal benevolence, We impart to you with great affection Our apostolic blessing.
    Given in Rome, at the Basilica of St. Peter, March 12, 1870, the twenty-fourth year of Our Pontificate.

    PIUS PP. IX"


    A better idea, make it a gift for a priest or a Bishop that you know and respect, it will be a great act of Charity.

    http://www.loretopubs.org/papal-monarchy-the.html

    Offline Centroamerica

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    About Fr. Pfeiffer "outstanding" sermon, the facts
    « Reply #7 on: May 08, 2014, 08:17:35 PM »
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  • Quote from: Louis
    Quote
    Actually, the SSPX have several reports about Galican errors. They don't promote or accept Galican errors at all.


    Centroamerica, just read the book The Papal Monarchy of Dom Guéranger and you will tell me after that if the SSPX or the "Resistance" don't promote or accept Gallican errors at all.

    How can you be wrong with this book?

    "Therefore, in Our estimation, you have rendered an extremely useful service to the Church by undertaking to refute the main propositions in writings of that sort, and by demonstrating their hostile, impetuous, and contrived character; you have accomplished this with such solid arguments, such brilliance, and such an abundance of evidence drawn from sacred antiquity and ecclesiastical science, that – conveying many things in few words – you have proved empty the pretense of wisdom of those who have wrapped their opinions in ignorant talk. In re-establishing the truth of the Faith, of right reason, and of history, you have acted in the interests of believers, whether learned or uneducated. We express therefore Our gratitude to you for the gift of this volume, and We predict an auspicious and very wide circulation of the work which you have produced by lamplight. As an augury of this success and as a pledge of Our paternal benevolence, We impart to you with great affection Our apostolic blessing.
    Given in Rome, at the Basilica of St. Peter, March 12, 1870, the twenty-fourth year of Our Pontificate.

    PIUS PP. IX"


    A better idea, make it a gift for a priest or a Bishop that you know and respect, it will be a great act of Charity.

    http://www.loretopubs.org/papal-monarchy-the.html



    Define Galican errors.  :detective:
    We conclude logically that religion can give an efficacious and truly realistic answer to the great modern problems only if it is a religion that is profoundly lived, not simply a superficial and cheap religion made up of some vocal prayers and some ceremonies...


    Offline Louis

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    About Fr. Pfeiffer "outstanding" sermon, the facts
    « Reply #8 on: May 08, 2014, 08:51:36 PM »
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  • The Gallican errors or to be more precise the Gallican error and the falses calumnies of the "fallen" Popes in history (Saint Peter, Liberius, Honorius, Jean XXII, etc.) that goes with it could be resume like this:

    The Vicar of Christ has no role to play in the Church, it becomes a minor detail since we resist him. Worse, the Pope is constantly judged and criticized by all: bishops, priests and faithful. It is a doctrine brought up by the enemies of the Church. In the French speaking world it is often called Gallican because it was strong in France in the XVIIth-XIXth century. To be more clear we can call it by his name: anti infallibilism.


    "In the Church, the supreme teacher is the Roman Pontiff. The union of minds therefore calls with perfect agreement in the same faith, perfect submission and obedience of will to the Church and to the Roman Pontiff, as to God Himself.

    Obedience must be perfect, because it belongs to the essence of faith"

    Pope Leo XIII, Encyclical Sapientiae christianae, 1890


     

    Offline Beatifico

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    About Fr. Pfeiffer "outstanding" sermon, the facts
    « Reply #9 on: May 09, 2014, 09:00:16 AM »
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  • Quote from: Louis


    "In the Church, the supreme teacher is the Roman Pontiff. The union of minds therefore calls with perfect agreement in the same faith, perfect submission and obedience of will to the Church and to the Roman Pontiff, as to God Himself.

    Obedience must be perfect, because it belongs to the essence of faith"

    Pope Leo XIII, Encyclical Sapientiae christianae, 1890


     


    This is really important.  Because if we don't get it right about our attitude and belief about the Pope we could easily not make it to heaven.  The pope is supreme and we owe him perfect obedience.  The men in the vatican since 1958 are anti-popes.  Just read the early church writings before 1900 - there is a lot because Vat 1 was in the 1870's and it puts the lie to the SSPX view.

    Father Pfeiffer is "bending over backwards" trying to support an erroneous view, which the Archbishop never did.  

    Offline Centroamerica

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    About Fr. Pfeiffer "outstanding" sermon, the facts
    « Reply #10 on: May 09, 2014, 10:53:37 AM »
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  • "Gallicanism

    Gallicanism: This term is used to designate a certain group of religious opinions for some time peculiar to the Church of France, or Gallican Church, and the theological schools of that country. These opinions, in opposition to the ideas which were called in France “Ultramontane,” tended chiefly to a restraint of the pope’s authority in the Church in favor of that of the bishop and the temporal ruler.[25]

    These ideas stemmed from times when the popes made concessions to Pepin and Charles the Great in the ruling of the Church in their countries which were to be exercised only under papal control.[26] These ideals were brought forward and promoted more to promote an argument than as a “deliberate opinion maturely conceived and conscious of its own meaning.”[27]

    The first glimmerings of the Gallican ideas surfaced during the conflict between Philip the Fair and Boniface VIII in the 1300’s.[28] In 1681 a General Assembly of the French clergy summoned by Louis XIV, King of France, obtained the “Declaration of the Four Articles,” known as the Four Gallican Propositions, namely that:

    The pope may not interfere directly or indirectly with the temporal concerns of princes.

    In spiritual matters a General Council is superior to the pope.

    The rights and customs of the Gallican church are inviolable.

    The Pope is not infallible, even in matters of Faith, unless his decision is confirmed by the consent of the Church.[29]

    From the second proposition or ideal came the idea that a pope can be judged by a council and of course if a council can judge the pope then so can individuals because individuals make up the councils. This Gallican proposition is the tap root of sedevacantism:

    Stricken to death, as a free opinion, by the Council of the Vatican (I), Gallicanism could survive only as a heresy; the Old Catholics have endeavored to keep it alive under this form.[30]

    It is from the roots of the Old Catholics that some of today’s sedevacantist bishops come."



    http://archives.sspx.org/miscellaneous/sedevacantism/is_sedevacantism_catholic_part_3.htm

    We conclude logically that religion can give an efficacious and truly realistic answer to the great modern problems only if it is a religion that is profoundly lived, not simply a superficial and cheap religion made up of some vocal prayers and some ceremonies...


    Offline hugeman

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    About Fr. Pfeiffer "outstanding" sermon, the facts
    « Reply #11 on: May 09, 2014, 11:41:45 AM »
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  • Sorry, Centro,

    The root of that refusal to accept false leaders, which you have loosely termed
    Sedevacantism, is to be found in the command of Jesus Christ to declare anathema on those, even those coming dressed up as angels of heaven, who preach a gospel different from that which Christ taught. The propelling reality, or immediate cause, is the fact that these imposters in Rome are, in fact, preaching a gospel worlds different from that which Christ taught.
        As the six bishops of Lvov, Ukraine declared in 2012-- Benedict XVI separated himself from the Catholic Church-- he foisted excommunication upon himself as a result of his open and notorious heresies. And Francis is certainly no better.

    Offline Centroamerica

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    About Fr. Pfeiffer "outstanding" sermon, the facts
    « Reply #12 on: May 09, 2014, 11:49:26 AM »
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  • Quote from: hugeman
    Sorry, Centro,

    The root of that refusal to accept false leaders, which you have loosely termed
    Sedevacantism, is to be found in the command of Jesus Christ to declare anathema on those, even those coming dressed up as angels of heaven, who preach a gospel different from that which Christ taught. The propelling reality, or immediate cause, is the fact that these imposters in Rome are, in fact, preaching a gospel worlds different from that which Christ taught.
        As the six bishops of Lvov, Ukraine declared in 2012-- Benedict XVI separated himself from the Catholic Church-- he foisted excommunication upon himself as a result of his open and notorious heresies. And Francis is certainly no better.




    I am quoting a source only and not stating my opinions regarding the sede vacate thesis.
    We conclude logically that religion can give an efficacious and truly realistic answer to the great modern problems only if it is a religion that is profoundly lived, not simply a superficial and cheap religion made up of some vocal prayers and some ceremonies...

    Offline Centroamerica

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    About Fr. Pfeiffer "outstanding" sermon, the facts
    « Reply #13 on: May 09, 2014, 11:52:58 AM »
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  • Some people are so zealous to defend and debate sedevacantism that they begin to to defend and debate it with someone who is not even arguing the issue.
    We conclude logically that religion can give an efficacious and truly realistic answer to the great modern problems only if it is a religion that is profoundly lived, not simply a superficial and cheap religion made up of some vocal prayers and some ceremonies...

    Offline Guga

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    About Fr. Pfeiffer "outstanding" sermon, the facts
    « Reply #14 on: May 09, 2014, 01:35:39 PM »
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  • Pius IX:  "If a future Pope teaches anything contrary to the Catholic Faith, do not follow him." (Letter to Bishop Brizen). What now?