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Author Topic: Vaccines - Devil's Advocate  (Read 13432 times)

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Offline SeanJohnson

Re: Vaccines - Devil's Advocate
« Reply #25 on: December 15, 2020, 11:01:52 AM »
Are Fr’s Copenhagen and Wolf saying that the remote material cooperation argument is erroneous and inadmissible, because, since one who would take the vaccine implicitly wills to benefit from that ongoing theft/sin, and therefore this cooperation is actually direct and formal (not remote or material)?

I don’t recall either using the term “formal,” but that seems to be the implication of their argument.

This is a very strong argument, and I think the burden now shifts to those who are defending the permissibility of receiving abortive vaccines in reliance upon remote material cooperation in evil to explain how/why the ongoing theft of cells is not direct and formal cooperation.

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Offline PAT317

Re: Vaccines - Devil's Advocate
« Reply #26 on: December 15, 2020, 11:02:10 AM »
Quote from: Mr G on December 15, 2020, 08:36:29 AM
I have purchased this book VACCINATION: A Catholic Perspective - Kolbe Center for the Study of Creation and in it Pam refers to two article and one video that discuses the "PRESENT and ONGOING" aspect of it. My work computer does not allow my to get the articles but you should be able to find them here https://cogforlife.org Once there, look for the article by Fr. Wolfe and one from Fr. Copenhagen, also a video by Fr. Ripperger.
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Interview with the author:
https://youtu.be/9PDvhKyUu2Y?t=54
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https://youtu.be/9PDvhKyUu2Y?t=2801
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^ “The vaccines that are made in aborted fetal cells can’t be completely …all the cell debris can’t be completely purified out of those vaccine preparations, so when you’re getting vaccinated for chicken pox, you’re also receiving proteins & DNA that was originally in those aborted fetal cells. So you’re getting DNA from another human being whose cells have been growing in a laboratory since the 1970s, so who knows what kind of mutations are growing in there.  ‘Cause they had to mutate it to grow in the laboratory in the first place. This DNA is getting injected into your body.”


https://youtu.be/9PDvhKyUu2Y?t=2886

^ “The chicken pox vaccine has more aborted fetal DNA in it than it has active ingredient for the chicken pox.”  
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Offline Pax Vobis

  • Supporter
Re: Vaccines - Devil's Advocate
« Reply #27 on: December 15, 2020, 11:03:32 AM »

Quote
how/why the ongoing theft of cells is not direct and formal cooperation.

Ok, but material cooperation with theft is vastly different than material cooperation with murder.
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Secondly, the 4 Novus Ordo Bishops say that remote material cooperation with slave labor products is allowable.  Why is not remote material cooperation with theft also not allowable?
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Seems there are multiple arguments flying around.
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Offline Clemens Maria

Re: Vaccines - Devil's Advocate
« Reply #28 on: December 15, 2020, 11:09:02 AM »
Quote from: SeanJohnson on December 15, 2020, 11:01:52 AM
Are Fr’s Copenhagen and Wolf saying that the remote material cooperation argument is erroneous and inadmissible, because, since one who would take the vaccine implicitly wills to benefit from that ongoing theft/sin, and therefore this cooperation is actually direct and formal (not remote or material)?

I don’t recall either using the term “formal,” but that seems to be the implication of their argument.

This is a very strong argument, and I think the burden now shifts to those who are defending the permissibility of receiving abortive vaccines in reliance upon remote material cooperation in evil to explain how/why the ongoing theft of cells is not direct and formal cooperation.
I don't see where they say that directly but it seems like an obvious logical consequence.  If the cells are equivalent to stolen property then it is immoral to knowingly traffic in them.  You would be implicated in the crime.
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Offline SeanJohnson

Re: Vaccines - Devil's Advocate
« Reply #29 on: December 15, 2020, 11:09:50 AM »
Quote from: Pax Vobis on December 15, 2020, 11:03:32 AM
Ok, but material cooperation with theft is vastly different than material cooperation with murder.
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Secondly, the 4 Novus Ordo Bishops say that remote material cooperation with slave labor products is allowable.  Why is not remote material cooperation with theft also not allowable?
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Seems there are multiple arguments flying around.

You missed their whole argument:

Fr’s Wolf and Copenhagen seem to be saying forget about the remote material, because anyone taking the vaccine receives stolen property (and in willing the benefit, they will the ongoing sin).

That would make cooperation formal, and jettison the whole remote material line of argument from the conversation.

The SSPX will need to conquer this argument if they are going to dig their heels in on the remote material argument.
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