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Author Topic: A Step for the Regularization of the SSPX? - Dissolution of Ecclesia Dei  (Read 58763 times)

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Offline Cantarella

Re: A Step for the Regularization of the SSPX? - Dissolution of Ecclesia Dei
« Reply #205 on: January 29, 2019, 11:19:09 PM »
Quote from: Maria Auxiliadora on January 29, 2019, 10:40:33 PM
That's on the power of the Church as regards the dispensation of the sacrament of the Eucharist. I don't see a problem. You seem to have a problem with session 7, canon XIII.

The problem is that you have constructed an entire reason for "resistance" based upon a massive, unbelievable, misinterpretation of that particular Tridentine canon, which is addressed to the Catholic clergy to simply stop them from using the pre-Tridentine liturgies that were common at the time and varied from one region to another, making it chaotic and subject to liturgical abuse. It was an effort of Pius V to regulate and codify an uniform Latin Rite of Mass to be used by everyone, which he in fact did shortly after, in Quo Primum.

You are hopelessly wrong on this, and I think you have spent entire decades of your life following this single error, so I can understand why you would not want to admit it. The "approved and received" rites of the Catholic Church are simply the ones which the Pope (the Holy See) "approves and receives". Once the Roman Pontiff promulgates a liturgical rite, such rite becomes part of the "approved and received".
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Offline Maria Auxiliadora

  • Supporter
Re: A Step for the Regularization of the SSPX? - Dissolution of Ecclesia Dei
« Reply #206 on: January 30, 2019, 04:57:49 AM »
Quote from: Cantarella on January 29, 2019, 11:19:09 PM
The problem is that you have constructed an entire reason for "resistance" based upon a massive, unbelievable, misinterpretation of that particular Tridentine canon, which is addressed to the Catholic clergy to simply stop them from using the pre-Tridentine liturgies that were common at the time and varied from one region to another, making it chaotic and subject to liturgical abuse. It was an effort of Pius V to regulate and codify an uniform Latin Rite of Mass to be used by everyone, which he in fact did shortly after, in Quo Primum.

You are hopelessly wrong on this, and I think you have spent entire decades of your life following this single error, so I can understand why you would not want to admit it. The "approved and received" rites of the Catholic Church are simply the ones which the Pope (the Holy See) "approves and receives". Once the Roman Pontiff promulgates a liturgical rite, such rite becomes part of the "approved and received".

We are in the company of Fr. Gommar de Pauw who ONLY did the Missal he was given at his ordination in 1942 until his death, so when he speaks about the changes in the Missal he includes the 1962 although not specifically. But again, you have either not watched it or didn't like what he says.
At be beginning of the thread you said:

https://www.cathinfo.com/sspx-resistance-news/a-step-for-the-regularization-of-the-sspx-dissolution-of-ecclesia-dei/msg638830/#msg638830

And you still don't have a clue. Read Tradition and the Church.
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Offline Pax Vobis

  • Supporter
Re: A Step for the Regularization of the SSPX? - Dissolution of Ecclesia Dei
« Reply #207 on: January 30, 2019, 08:44:51 AM »
Quote
We are in the company of Fr. Gommar de Pauw who ONLY did the Missal he was given at his ordination in 1942 until his death, so when he speaks about the changes in the Missal he includes the 1962 although not specifically.
He could do that and no laity would notice because both missals are 99.9% the same, as far as daily/weekly mass is concerned.  If you throw out the addition of "St Joseph" and add back the 2nd confiteor, then the mass is exactly the same.
The changes to Holy Week and the calendar of saints are NOT essential changes because they don't affect the mass AT ALL.  There was a time in Church history when there was NO Holy Week ceremonies and the calendar of saints is updated like every 50 years for new saints, so these changes are minor.
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Offline Maria Auxiliadora

  • Supporter
Re: A Step for the Regularization of the SSPX? - Dissolution of Ecclesia Dei
« Reply #208 on: January 30, 2019, 10:29:47 AM »
Quote from: Cantarella on January 29, 2019, 11:19:09 PM
The problem is that you have constructed an entire reason for "resistance" based upon a massive, unbelievable, misinterpretation of that particular Tridentine canon, which is addressed to the Catholic clergy to simply stop them from using the pre-Tridentine liturgies that were common at the time and varied from one region to another, making it chaotic and subject to liturgical abuse. It was an effort of Pius V to regulate and codify an uniform Latin Rite of Mass to be used by everyone, which he in fact did shortly after, in Quo Primum.

You are hopelessly wrong on this, and I think you have spent entire decades of your life following this single error, so I can understand why you would not want to admit it. The "approved and received" rites of the Catholic Church are simply the ones which the Pope (the Holy See) "approves and receives". Once the Roman Pontiff promulgates a liturgical rite, such rite becomes part of the "approved and received".
I didn't have time for a full reply earlier.

Yes, again. You do not hold Dogma as your proximate rule of faith and this post may help explain why.  This is evidence that you do not know what Dogma is.  You say, that the dogmatic canon XIII “is addressed to the Catholic clergy to simply stop them from using the pre-Tridentine liturgies that were common at the time and varied from one region to another, making it chaotic and subject to liturgical abuse.”

You are claiming that the Dogma is a preceptive norm in the category of authority/obedience commanding the clergy to “stop… using the pre-Tridentine liturgies” because they “varied from one region to another, making it chaotic and subject to liturgical abuse.”  

You have been told this many, many times before but you continue doing it.  So I will tell you again. Dogmas are, as St. Pius X taught, “truths fallen from heaven.”  They are not preceptive norms.  In fact, it is a condemned error of Modernism to treat dogmas as preceptive norms.

Canon XIII is, like all dogmas, a revealed doctrine formally defined.  It is a universal truth that is a formal object of divine and Catholic faith.  You have been provided the reference to the lecture of Fr. Hesse multiple times who specifically addresses this dogma and its correct Latin translation. So does Fr. Kramer. Still you continue to corrupt it.  

Pax is offended that bad will is attributed to your posts but when intellectual rectitude has been eliminated as a possible explanation. That only leaves bad will unless there is some unknown physiological or psychological explanation in which case I would certainly apologize.
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Offline Cantarella

Re: A Step for the Regularization of the SSPX? - Dissolution of Ecclesia Dei
« Reply #209 on: January 30, 2019, 10:40:31 AM »
Quote from: Maria Auxiliadora on January 30, 2019, 04:57:49 AM
At be beginning of the thread you said:

https://www.cathinfo.com/sspx-resistance-news/a-step-for-the-regularization-of-the-sspx-dissolution-of-ecclesia-dei/msg638830/#msg638830

And you still don't have a clue. Read Tradition and the Church.

Quote
You keep saying "the immemorial received and approved" rites of Mass. What do you even mean by that? Approved by who? Without the living Pope as supreme authority on these matters, such immemorial "received and approved" rite of Mass in the Roman rite would probably be the pre-Tridentine Mass before 1570, not even the Tridentine Mass of Pius V with Quo Primum.

<<<<< You obviously did not get that that was a rhetorical question.
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