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Author Topic: A Step for the Regularization of the SSPX? - Dissolution of Ecclesia Dei  (Read 27577 times)

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Offline Maria Auxiliadora

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Re: A Step for the Regularization of the SSPX? - Dissolution of Ecclesia Dei
« Reply #180 on: January 29, 2019, 05:38:50 AM »
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  • Cantarella,

    Why don't you read, pray and reflect on this quotes. There's none so blind as those who will not see". 

    All emphasis mine.

    Quote
    "However, the term disciplina in no way applies to the liturgical rite of the Mass, particularly in light of the fact that the popes have repeatedly observed that the rite is founded on apostolic tradition (several popes are then quoted in the footnote).  For this reason alone, the rite cannot fall into the category of 'discipline and rule of the Church.'  To this we can add that there is not a single docuмent, including the Codex Iuris Canonici, in which there is a specific statement that the pope, in his function as the supreme pastor of the Church, has the authority to abolish the traditional rite.  In fact, nowhere is it mentioned that the pope has the authority to change even a single local liturgical tradition.  The fact that there is no mention of such authority strengthens our case considerably.
        "There are clearly defined limits to the plena et suprema potestas (full and highest powers) of the pope.  For example, there is no question that, even in matters of dogma, he still has to follow the tradition of the universal Church-that is, as St. Vincent of Lerins says, what has been believed (quod semper, quod ubique, quod ab ominibus).  In fact, there are several authors who state quite explicitly that it is clearly outside the pope's scope of authority to abolish the traditional rite."

    Msgr. Klaus Gamber, The Reform of the Roman Liturgy


    Quote
       "Liturgy and faith are interdependent.  That is why a new rite was created, a rite that in many ways reflects the bias of the new (modernist) theology”.  
    Msgr. Klaus Gamber, The Reform of the Roman Liturgy


       Further evidence that the immemorial Roman Rite, our “received and approved” rite, is not a matter of simple discipline:
     

    Quote
    The Tridentine Profession of Faith of Pope Pius IV, Iniunctum Nobis, prescribes adherence to the “received and approved rites of the Catholic Church used in the solemn administration of the sacraments.”  The “received and approved rites” are the rites established by custom, and hence the Council of Trent refers to them as the “received and approved rites of the Catholic Church customarily used in the solemn administration of the sacraments (Sess. VII, can XIII).  Adherence to the customary rites received and approved by the Church is an infallible defined doctrine: The Council of Florence defined that “priests…. must confect the body of the Lord, each one according to the custom of his Church” (Decretum pro Graecis), and therefore the Council of Trent solemnly condemned as heresy the proposition that “ the received and approved rites of the Catholic Church customarily used in the solemn administration of the sacraments may be changed into other new rites by any ecclesiastical pastor whosoever.”  
    Fr. Paul Kramer, The ѕυιcιdє of Altering the Faith in the Liturgy

    Pope Pius XII  said regarding the error of liturgists:
     

    Quote
    “They wander entirely away from the true and full notion and understanding of the Sacred Liturgy, who consider it only as an external part of divine worship, and presented to the senses; or as a kind of apparatus of ceremonial properties; and they no less err who think of it as a mere compendium of laws and precepts, by which the ecclesiastical Hierarchy bids the sacred rites to be arranged and ordered."
    Pope Piux XII, Mediator Dei

    AND:
     

    "Lex orandi, lex credendi’ -- the law for prayer is the law for faith”, and, “In the sacred liturgy we profess the Catholic faith explicitly and openly”….. “The entire liturgy, therefore, has the Catholic faith for its content, inasmuch as it bears public witness to the faith of the Church.”  
    Pope Pius XII, Mediator Dei
     

    Quote
    St. Pius X, in his condemnation of Modernists in Pascendi Dominid Gregis;

    They (the Modernists) exercise all their ingenuity in an effort to weaken the force and falsify the character of Tradition, so as to rob it of all its weight and authority.  But for Catholics nothing will remove the authority of the second Council of Nicea, where it condemns those “who dare, after the impious fashion of heretics, to deride the ecclesiastical traditions, to invent novelties of some kind.... or endeavor by malice or craft to overthrow any one of the legitimate traditions of the Catholic Church”; nor that of the declaration of the fourth Council of Constantinople: “We therefore profess to preserve and guard the rules bequeathed to the Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, by the Holy and most illustrious Apostles, by the orthodox Councils, both general and local, and by every one of those divine interpreters, the Fathers and Doctors of the Church.” Wherefore the Roman Pontiffs, Pius IV and Pius IX, ordered the insertion in the profession of faith of the following declaration: “I most firmly admit and embrace the apostolic and ecclesiastical traditions and other observances and constitutions of the Church”


     
    Quote
     The Liturgy cannot be compared to a piece of equipment, something made, but rather to a plant, something organic that grows and whose laws of growth determine the possibilities of further development.  In the West there has been, of course, another factor involved.  This was the Papal authority, the Pope took ever more clearly the responsibility upon himself for the liturgical legislation, and so doing foresaw in a juridical authority for the forth setting of the liturgical development.  The stronger the papal primacy was exercised, the more the question arose, just what the limits of this authority were, which of course, no-one had ever before thought about.  After the Second Vatican Council, the impression has been made that the Pope, as far as the Liturgy goes, can actually do everything he wishes to do, certainly when he was acting with the mandate of an Ecuмenical Council.  Finally, the idea that the Liturgy is a predetermined ''given'', the fact that nobody can simply do what he wishes with her, disappeared out of the public conscience of the Western [Church].  In fact, the First Vatican Council did not in any way define that the Pope was an absolute monarch!  Au contraire, the first Vatican Council sketched his role as that of a guarantee for the obedience to the Revealed Word.  The papal authority is limited by the Holy Tradition of the Faith, and that regards also the Liturgy.  The Liturgy is no ''creation'' of the authorities.  Even the Pope can be nothing other than a humble servant of the Liturgy's legitimate development and of her everlasting integrity and identity.

    Pope Benedict XVI, Spirit of the Liturgy
    The love of God be your motivation, the will of God your guiding principle, the glory of God your goal.
    (St. Clement Mary Hofbauer)


    Offline Cantarella

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    Re: A Step for the Regularization of the SSPX? - Dissolution of Ecclesia Dei
    « Reply #181 on: January 29, 2019, 10:23:07 AM »
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  • Cantarella,

    Why don't you read, pray and reflect on this quotes. There's none so blind as those who will not see".

    All emphasis mine.

    Why don't you just simply address my last post, instead of re-posting the old quotes?

    If the dogmatic canon is:

    Quote
    If anyone shall say that the received and approved rites of the Catholic Church accustomed to be used in the solemn administration of the sacraments may be...changed to other new ones by any pastor of the churches whomsoever (INCLUDING THE ROMAN PONTIFF HIMSELF): let him be anathema.

    Then Pope Pius XII' Mediator's Dei contains this heretical statement:

    Quote
    "The SOVEREIGN PONTIFF ALONE enjoys the right to recognize and establish any practice touching the worship of God, to introduce and approve new rites, as also to modify those he judges to require modification.”




    If anyone says that true and natural water is not necessary for baptism and thus twists into some metaphor the words of our Lord Jesus Christ" Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit" (Jn 3:5) let him be anathema.


    Offline Cantarella

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    Re: A Step for the Regularization of the SSPX? - Dissolution of Ecclesia Dei
    « Reply #182 on: January 29, 2019, 10:39:20 AM »
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  • Quote
    All of the Eastern rites of Mass of long prescription can ultimately be shown to be developments of either the Antiochene or Alexandrian rites, and both of those rites can be shown to be developments of apostolic rites. Can those who deny this point to one single example, pre-Vatican II, of an Eastern rite of Mass of long prescription that could truthfully be referred to as a “banal fabrication” or an “on-the-spot product?” In what century did this “banal fabrication” or “on-the-spot production” of an Eastern rite occur? I doubt we will ever receive an answer.  

    No rite is ever made from scratch. Liturgical practice begins with the very founding of the Church. "From time immemorial the ecclesiastical hierarchy has exercised this right in matters liturgical. It has organized and regulated divine worship, enriching it constantly with new splendor and beauty, to the glory of God and the spiritual profit of Christians. What is more, it has not been slow - keeping the substance of the Mass and sacraments carefully intact - to modify what it deemed not altogether fitting, and to add what appeared more likely to increase the honor paid to Jesus Christ and the august Trinity, and to instruct and stimulate the Christian people to greater advantage." (Mediator Dei, 49)

    As long as the substance of the Mass remains intact, the Holy See reserves the right to introduce or modify liturgical rites. For instance, the Rite of St. James translated into Syrian was examined and revised by Rome sometime in the XVIII century, and out of the 50 Anaphoras, most were deleted and only seven were kept. The Holy See deleted many Anaphoras which had been used for centuries by the Catholic Syrians, their "immemorial tradition" was altered, and no one ever questioned the authority of Rome to do so.
    If anyone says that true and natural water is not necessary for baptism and thus twists into some metaphor the words of our Lord Jesus Christ" Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit" (Jn 3:5) let him be anathema.

    Offline Maria Auxiliadora

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    Re: A Step for the Regularization of the SSPX? - Dissolution of Ecclesia Dei
    « Reply #183 on: January 29, 2019, 03:04:56 PM »
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  • Why don't you just simply address my last post, instead of re-posting the old quotes?

    If the dogmatic canon is:

    Then Pope Pius XII' Mediator's Dei contains this heretical statement:

    Cantarella,

    No reply will satisfy you. The two links below should answer  your questions on the last 2-3 posts. You have an erroneous understanding of the term "new rite" in pre VII docuмents. There is no contradiction between Canon XIII and Pius XII quotes. You insist that Pius V started a new rite. Fr. Kramer addresses your questions and your error on Chapter one. So does Michael Davis. In the link to Short History of the Roman Mass by Michael Davis you can also click any chapter. I recommended the book Tradition and the Church in a previous post, you can get it from TAN Books.

    The ѕυιcιdє of Altering the Faith in the Liturgy
    https://fatima.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/The-ѕυιcιdє-of-Altering-the-Faith-in-the-Liturgy.pdf

    Short History of the Roman Mass
    https://unavocecanada.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/Short-History-of-the-Roman-Mass.pdf
    The love of God be your motivation, the will of God your guiding principle, the glory of God your goal.
    (St. Clement Mary Hofbauer)

    Offline Maria Auxiliadora

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    Re: A Step for the Regularization of the SSPX? - Dissolution of Ecclesia Dei
    « Reply #184 on: January 29, 2019, 03:10:25 PM »
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  • Double post, was trying to modify.
    The love of God be your motivation, the will of God your guiding principle, the glory of God your goal.
    (St. Clement Mary Hofbauer)


    Offline Maria Auxiliadora

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    Re: A Step for the Regularization of the SSPX? - Dissolution of Ecclesia Dei
    « Reply #185 on: January 29, 2019, 03:29:05 PM »
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  • What is first in intention is last in execution. The revolution that trads oppose happened in 1969 when a very different missal was published.


    Cardinal Ottaviani like others did not see the crime for what it was until everything was in ruins and the dead body was on the floor.  Hind sight is much clearer.  We know that Bugnini envisioned the Novus Ordo from the beginning.  Every liturgical innovation was directed to overcome all opposition and achieve the overthrow of the “received and approved” rite of Mass.  Fr. Anscar Chupungco, a strong admirer of Bugnini, said:

    Quote from: Chupungco
    Bugnini himself, then secretary to the Congregation of Divine Worship, was not spared. He was a systematic person who programmed the liturgical reform and courageously pushed its implementation against all opposition. I remember that in one of his visits to the Pontifical Liturgical Institute he declared, “I am the liturgical reform!” In more ways than one his self-assessment was correct. The postconciliar reform would not have progressed with giant steps had it not been for his dauntless spirit and tenacity.
    Fr. Anscar Chupungco OSB, former president of the Pontifical Liturgical Institute in Rome, from his book, What, Then, Is Liturgy? Musings and Memoir

    There is also the famous quote from Bugnini’s collaborator, Fr. Josef Jungmann, S.J., commenting on the success of Bugnini:

    Quote from: Jungmann
    “The Roman Rite is dead.”
    Fr. Josef Andreas Jungmann, S.J., member of the Concilium, one of the chief liturgical revolutionaries, author of the 2-volume set, The Mass of the Roman Rite: Its Origins and Development, in 1969

    Bugnini was able to overcome because he had the support of the popes and he always argued from the perspective of false charity of human respect, such as, when he changed the Good Friday prayer for the conversion of “heretics and schismatics”, to “unity with our separated brethren,” he said:

    Quote from: Bugnini
    “And yet it is the love of souls and the desire to help in any way the road to union of the separated brethren, by removing every stone that could even remotely constitute an obstacle or difficulty, that has driven the Church to make even these painful sacrifices.”
    Rev. Annibale Bugnini, March 19, 1965 edition of L’Osservatore Romano, on changing the Good Friday prayer for heretics and schismatics.

    By the time the 1969 Bugnini Missal was published it was more clear as to what was going on.  It is easy to see the 1969 Missal and say it is not the “received and approved” Roman rite but it is not easy to say exactly at what point in Bugnini reform that this happened.  We know that Popes JPII, Benedict XVI, and Francis have all treated the 1962 Bugnini Missal as if it is not the “received and approved” rite by reducing it to an indult and then, a grant of legal privilege conditionally tied to accepting that the 1969 and the 1962 Missals are two forms of worship constituting one identical ‘lex orandi, lex credenda.’  The use of the 1962 Missal also is tied to unconditional acceptance of Vatican II being without error.   So it has become clear since 1983 that the 1962 Bugnini Missal is not the “received and approved” rite because there is something about it which constitutes an essential break in liturgical tradition.  

    St. Pius X in Pascendi referenced Nicaea II which condemned the heresy of Iconoclasm which is the destruction of the images of our faith.  He reaffirmed its condemnations.

    Quote from: Nicaea II
    “Those therefore who after the manner of wicked heretics dare to set aside Ecclesiastical Traditions, and to invent any kind of novelty, or to reject any of those things entrusted to the Church, or who wrongfully and outrageously devise the destruction of any of those Traditions enshrined in the Catholic Church, are to be punished thus:
     “IF THEY ARE BISHOPS, WE ORDER THEM TO BE DEPOSED; BUT IF THEY ARE MONKS OR LAY PERSONS, WE COMMAND THEM TO BE EXCLUDED FROM THE COMMUNITY.”   Second Council of Nicaea 787 A.D.

    Bugnini “wrongfully and outrageously devised the destruction” the greatest of all of “those Traditions enshrined in the Catholic Church.”   It is ruinous to the Resistance to argue how much of Bugnini’s reforms can be digested without sickening true worship.  No one would tolerate any black water contaminating the potable water.  Why would any faithful Catholic be complacent in defending the true worship of God?  


    The love of God be your motivation, the will of God your guiding principle, the glory of God your goal.
    (St. Clement Mary Hofbauer)

    Offline Maria Auxiliadora

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    Re: A Step for the Regularization of the SSPX? - Dissolution of Ecclesia Dei
    « Reply #186 on: January 29, 2019, 05:18:19 PM »
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  • Powerful short video (11:08 mins.) of Father Gommar A. De Pauw on Quo Primum. He always said the Roman Missal given to him at his ordination.

    The love of God be your motivation, the will of God your guiding principle, the glory of God your goal.
    (St. Clement Mary Hofbauer)

    Offline Stanley N

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    Re: A Step for the Regularization of the SSPX? - Dissolution of Ecclesia Dei
    « Reply #187 on: January 29, 2019, 06:45:07 PM »
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  • St. Pius X in Pascendi referenced Nicaea II which condemned the heresy of Iconoclasm which is the destruction of the images of our faith.  He reaffirmed its condemnations.
    I think you've come up with what looks like a simple answer to a difficult problem, but from my viewpoint, your answer just doesn't match reality.

    For example, in the breviary before 1911 there was a tradition of reciting the "laudete" psalms every morning at lauds. This practice was one of the most ancient traditions in the prayer of the Church. Our Lord may very well have said these same psalms in morning prayer.

    Nevertheless, St. Pius X's reform of the breviary did away with this.

    If I understand your argument correctly, you must reject the breviary reform of Pope St. Pius X as "iconoclast" for daring to set aside ecclesiastical traditions.

    The liturgy is not "purely discipline" and no one here thinks that. We all agree the divine elements can't be changed. But human elements can and have changed, as evidenced by history such as the Pius X breviary reform.


    Offline Cantarella

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    Re: A Step for the Regularization of the SSPX? - Dissolution of Ecclesia Dei
    « Reply #188 on: January 29, 2019, 06:45:50 PM »
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  • Cantarella,

    So does Michael Davis. In the link to Short History of the Roman Mass by Michael Davis you can also click any chapter.

    Short History of the Roman Mass
    https://unavocecanada.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/Short-History-of-the-Roman-Mass.pdf

    Michael Davis does not seem to have any problem with the Tridentine Missal revision made by John XXIII.

    From the link above:

    Quote
    In 1955 Pope Pius XII authorized a rubrical revision, chiefly concerned with the calendar. In 1951 he restored the Easter Vigil from the morning to the evening of Holy Saturday, and, on 16 November 1955, he approved the Decree Maxima redemptionis, reforming the Holy Week ceremonies. These reforms were welcomed and have been highly praised by some of the traditionalists, who implacably opposed to the reform of Pope Paul VI. Pope John XXIII also made an extensive rubrical reform which was promulgated on 25 July 1960 and took effect from 1 January 1961. Once again this was concerned principally with the calendar. In none of these reforms was any significant change made to the Ordinary of the Mass. It is thus unscholarly, dishonest even, to attempt to refute traditionalist criticisms of the New Mass by citing changes made in the Missal by the popes just named.

    "In none of these reforms was any significant change made to the Ordinary of the Mass".

    My point is that if John XXIII was indeed a legitimate Pope of the Catholic Church, then he had the full authority to modify the rite, just like his predecessors had done several times, as long as the substance of the Mass is carefully kept intact. Can you prove that the substance was altered? Even if by the original intention of the reformers was modernist in principle, once the legitimate Pope promulgates the revision, it becomes binding to all Catholics.
    If anyone says that true and natural water is not necessary for baptism and thus twists into some metaphor the words of our Lord Jesus Christ" Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit" (Jn 3:5) let him be anathema.

    Offline Cantarella

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    Re: A Step for the Regularization of the SSPX? - Dissolution of Ecclesia Dei
    « Reply #189 on: January 29, 2019, 07:00:56 PM »
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  • You have an erroneous understanding of the term "new rite" in pre VII docuмents. There is no contradiction between Canon XIII and Pius XII quotes.

    There is no contradiction simply because Canon XIII does not include the Supreme Pontiff, of course!.

    Quote
    You insist that Pius V started a new rite.
    Where do I insist so?

    He could have simply modified it, and the end result is the same. Revisions were made to the pre-Tridentine Liturgy. (Not the Divine core, or substance of the Mass which comes from Christ, of course). The Tridentine Mass is the Roman Rite Mass which appears in the Missals published from 1570 to 1962. All of the editions approved by the Church are safe for the faithful to use. If the last one is harmful, then the only possibility is that the Authority who promulgated it is false.  I don't oppose you using a pre-1962 Missal. I do so myself, but I think you do it for the wrong reasons, lacking the proper obedience due to the one you consider Pope, in all matters liturgical, as stipulated in Vatican I Council.  

    If anyone says that true and natural water is not necessary for baptism and thus twists into some metaphor the words of our Lord Jesus Christ" Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit" (Jn 3:5) let him be anathema.

    Offline Cantarella

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    Re: A Step for the Regularization of the SSPX? - Dissolution of Ecclesia Dei
    « Reply #190 on: January 29, 2019, 07:18:35 PM »
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  • How do you in right conscience reject the infallible teachings of Vatican I Council? Your traditionalist position is a contradiction, merely founded upon rebellion towards the one you consider Vicar of Christ.

    Pastor Aeternus, Chapter III "On the Power and Nature of the Primacy of the Roman Pontiff"

    Quote
    Hence we teach and declare that by the appointment of our Lord the Roman Church possesses a sovereignty of ordinary power over all other Churches, and that this power of jurisdiction of the Roman pontiff, which is truly Episcopal, is immediate; to which all, of whatsoever rite and dignity, are bound, by their duty of hierarchical subordination and true obedience, to submit, not only in matters which belong to faith and morals, but also in those that appertain to the discipline and government of the Church throughout the world; so that the Church of Christ may be one flock under one supreme pastor, through the preservation of unity, both of communion and of profession of the same faith, with the Roman pontiff. This is the teaching of Catholic truth, from which no one can deviate without loss of faith and salvation.

    If John XXIII was indeed Pope, then the 1962' Tridentine Missal is the one you should be using, in good Faith.
    If anyone says that true and natural water is not necessary for baptism and thus twists into some metaphor the words of our Lord Jesus Christ" Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit" (Jn 3:5) let him be anathema.


    Offline Maria Auxiliadora

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    Re: A Step for the Regularization of the SSPX? - Dissolution of Ecclesia Dei
    « Reply #191 on: January 29, 2019, 07:21:22 PM »
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  • There is no contradiction simply because Canon XIII does not include the Supreme Pontiff, of course!.
    Where do I insist so?

    He could have simply modified it, and the end result is the same. Revisions were made to the pre-Tridentine Liturgy. (Not the Divine core, or substance of the Mass which comes from Christ, of course). The Tridentine Mass is the Roman Rite Mass which appears in the Missals published from 1570 to 1962. All of the editions approved by the Church are safe for the faithful to use. If the last one is harmful, then the only possibility is that the Authority who promulgated it is false.  I don't oppose you using a pre-1962 Missal. I do so myself, but I think you do it for the wrong reasons, lacking the proper obedience due to the one you consider Pope, in all matters liturgical, as stipulated in Vatican I Council.  

    The purpose for those links was to correct your error that Pius V created a "new rite". I know Michael Davies believe the 1962 to be the traditional Roman Rite. So does Fr. Kramer. That is why I posted the video of Fr. Gommar de Pauw. Did you take the time to see it ? It's only 11:08 min. long

    https://www.cathinfo.com/sspx-resistance-news/a-step-for-the-regularization-of-the-sspx-dissolution-of-ecclesia-dei/msg641598/#msg641598
    The love of God be your motivation, the will of God your guiding principle, the glory of God your goal.
    (St. Clement Mary Hofbauer)

    Offline Maria Auxiliadora

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    Re: A Step for the Regularization of the SSPX? - Dissolution of Ecclesia Dei
    « Reply #192 on: January 29, 2019, 07:30:07 PM »
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  • There is no contradiction simply because Canon XIII does not include the Supreme Pontiff, of course!.
    Where do I insist so?

    He could have simply modified it, and the end result is the same. Revisions were made to the pre-Tridentine Liturgy. (Not the Divine core, or substance of the Mass which comes from Christ, of course). The Tridentine Mass is the Roman Rite Mass which appears in the Missals published from 1570 to 1962. All of the editions approved by the Church are safe for the faithful to use. If the last one is harmful, then the only possibility is that the Authority who promulgated it is false.  I don't oppose you using a pre-1962 Missal. I do so myself, but I think you do it for the wrong reasons, lacking the proper obedience due to the one you consider Pope, in all matters liturgical, as stipulated in Vatican I Council.  

    Here and at least in one other post.
    https://www.cathinfo.com/sspx-resistance-news/a-step-for-the-regularization-of-the-sspx-dissolution-of-ecclesia-dei/msg639201/#msg639201

    And my husband reasponded to this one.
    https://www.cathinfo.com/sspx-resistance-news/a-step-for-the-regularization-of-the-sspx-dissolution-of-ecclesia-dei/msg639268/#msg639268
    The love of God be your motivation, the will of God your guiding principle, the glory of God your goal.
    (St. Clement Mary Hofbauer)

    Offline Cantarella

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    Re: A Step for the Regularization of the SSPX? - Dissolution of Ecclesia Dei
    « Reply #193 on: January 29, 2019, 07:38:08 PM »
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  • The purpose for those links was to correct your error that Pius V created a "new rite".

    https://www.cathinfo.com/sspx-resistance-news/a-step-for-the-regularization-of-the-sspx-dissolution-of-ecclesia-dei/msg641598/#msg641598

    So now I am in error just because Fr. Kramer's opinion differs from mine?  It is not the first time that happens :laugh1:


    If anyone says that true and natural water is not necessary for baptism and thus twists into some metaphor the words of our Lord Jesus Christ" Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit" (Jn 3:5) let him be anathema.

    Offline Cantarella

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    If anyone says that true and natural water is not necessary for baptism and thus twists into some metaphor the words of our Lord Jesus Christ" Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit" (Jn 3:5) let him be anathema.