Author Topic: A real crisis in the clergy...  (Read 4848 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline CathMomof7

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1045
  • Reputation: +1270/-10
  • Gender: Female
A real crisis in the clergy...
« on: October 01, 2012, 10:33:55 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • For two weeks in a row, now, our parish family has had to listen to a sermon on obedience.  Particularly, the Rules of St. Ignatius Loyola.  Two weeks ago, we had a lengthy sermon regarding the 10th rule, specifically how it is necessary for us to obey our superiors and not speak ill of them.  This forum was mentioned by name.  I came here, out of concern and good faith, to present this as information, so that people would understand that something is not quite right in the Society right now.

    Last Sunday, we were greeted to another lengthy talk with father standing right in the aisle and a print out of these 18 rules.  Every single word I mentioned in my previous post was addressed in this sermon.  We were reminded that there is "no Jim Jones here" and that we can leave if we want to.  We were chastised for being critical of decisions that are being made and we were downright demanded not to judge even our priest's behavior.  

    I left Mass with a heavy heart.

    But later that evening I received information that really shocked and enraged me.  It involved events that happened the week before, only part of which I was witness to.

    I have mentioned before the long history of the small chapel that I attend.  A few people have invested their whole lives into this chapel, hoping only to offer a place for traditional Catholics to be able to assist at Mass.  All of these people are incredibly, amazing people.  Although, I have only known them a short while, I know they only want what is best for the chapel and the parishioners.  They have been through a lot, suffered a lot, struggled a lot, and prayed even more.  

    As such, when they saw there was a reasonable need for our parish, to change the time of the Mass, and they recognized that it wouldn't be a conflict for the priests who come to offer Masses, they asked.  They waited for a response for a long time and were finally told no.  But when some people heard why the answer was no, they become really concerned and hoped to bring attention to the matter.

    The 4 pm. Mass could not be changed to a morning Mass because the priests were to soon take responsibility for chapel not managed by the SSPX but vacated by one of the priests who was present in Vienna, VA in early August.  This chapel has been privately managed and comes attached to a nice summer camp for families.  

    Considering that, most of the long time members of our little chapel felt a little sting of treachery.  So they decided to start a petition to request a change in the Mass time.  After careful consideration, I signed this petition, not to create controversy, but because it seemed reasonable to me.  Who doesn't want a morning Mass??

    There is no way you could possibly imagine the outcome of that little petition.  So as not to cause rumors to be spread or to be guilty of detraction, I will only say publicly that this priest became hostile and violent.  Some of these events I personally witnessed, others I was shocked to learn.  

    This priest declared that we did not have permission to pass around a petition.  That what was being done was not only disrespectful but disobedient.  Some people involved were basically thrown out and asked not to return until they could offer a formal apology.

    Personally, I had hoped not to get involved and ordinarily I wouldn't have, but I was dragged into this, entirely.  I am being spied on.  I fear that because I have come to this forum to state, matter of factly my concerns and opinions, that I will be discovered and denied Holy Communion.  

    My exact words, words that I have posted here, have been repeated in sermons.  It was suggested that "whoever has a problem should see me after Mass."  This I would not do.  

    So I am going to repeat this again.  This is creepy and cultish.  

    To tell a entire chapel that they cannot use the internet to find information is wrong.  To tell people they shouldn't worry about whatever crisis is in the Society is wrong.  To tell us that we must obey without question is wrong.  To force people out of chapels because they passed a petition around is wrong.  To deny people Holy Communion because they question what is happening with their priests and within the Society is more than wrong.  And to stand up and tell us we are uncharitable or not "real" Catholics is an outright lie.

    And so not to give the impression that I am bitter or ungrateful for this experience, I am not.  I am grateful to Our Lord for allowing this all to happen.  He has willed this to happen in my chapel at this time.  It  has opened my eyes to what I could not see.

    There are many, many problems within the Society.  I don't pretend to know what they are or even how to fix them.  What I do know, is that faithful Catholics do not need to or wish to be exposed to this kind of behavior from their priests.  They wish only to come to Mass, receive the Sacraments, receive good counsel, and hear a sermon that aids in their spiritual survival in this modernistic world.  That is certainly all I ever wanted to do.

    But to KNOW that a priest, who seems to be incredibly busy with running so many things, has time to troll around forums to see who is talking about him or is concerned about how he manages the affairs of his chapel is absolute insanity.  

    I don't know if this happens at all chapels but it is happening at mine.  IF you are thinking of coming here---DON'T!  Find another place to go to Mass.  This place is embroiled in chaos!  Our Lord has allowed them to be exposed!  

    Let those who can see, see and those who can hear, hear.

    Farewell and Persevere!

    Holy Guardian Angels, Protect Us!



    Offline Skunkwurxsspx

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 184
    • Reputation: +391/-0
    A real crisis in the clergy...
    « Reply #1 on: October 02, 2012, 02:48:06 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Thank you for sharing that, CathMomof7. I am sorry that this is happening at your SSPX chapel. Mind-control through the use of psychological guilt and intimidation is a technique most unworthy of a man of God. If it is unacceptable as a means of communication amongst loved ones at home, it has even less of a place at Church.

    The abusive, bullying style is a classic tell-tale sign that its proponent has run out of intelligent arguments rooted in the truth.

    What caught my attention as I was reading through your description was how the priest in question discouraged the use of the internet--especially as it related to reading up on the crisis within the SSPX. Though the SSPX chapel I attend is far from the situation you describe (so far), its out-going prior expressed the very same admonition in his last sermon--adding that he "knew" that some of the bloggers were from our chapel. Creepy, eh?  

    To the best of my knowledge, our new prior has not made a public stand on the crisis and has certainly not gone down the road to tell us what to do or not to do as far as reading up on the crisis. He seems like a genuinely nice man--a gentle, pious soul with a likability factor that's simply off the charts!

    Your desire to conduct yourself charitably and not to succumb to detraction and bitterness, all the while holding fast to your sound Catholic principles, indicate to me that you are on the right track! What an admirable attitude you show when you say that you will bear these heavy trials in a spirit of gratitude before Our Lord. Your courageous example is truly edifying!

    In closing, I will say that the only (materially) effective means of dealing with a bully is to call his bluff and thereby knock the wind right out of his sail. This means (ideally) the faithful of your chapel uniting as a cohesive force and publically standing up for the one wrongfully denied Holy Communion--telling the bullying priest in no uncertain terms that he needs to get his act together or leave. But as long as this person feels he can divide and intimidate, expect no end to the chaos and abuse anytime soon. Abusers keep abusing with impunity because they think they can. There is a certain puffed-up "invincibility" factor that is well overdue for a kind but firm "deflating," it seems.  

    I suspect I haven't mentioned anything here that hasn't already crossed your mind. As far as the things immediately within our purview of control, let us never underestimate the special supernatural graces granted to the holy rosary in this time of crisis/apostasy. My prayers are with you! God bless!!!


    Offline PenitentWoman

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 790
    • Reputation: +1031/-1
    • Gender: Female
    A real crisis in the clergy...
    « Reply #2 on: October 02, 2012, 06:25:43 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • I can see on the list that someone is printing these right now.  :-/

    Very frightening.  

    Many prayers CathMomof7.
    ~For we are saved by hope. But hope that is seen, is not hope. For what a man seeth, why doth he hope for? But if we hope for that which we see not, we wait for it with patience. ~ Romans 8:24-25

    Offline ultrarigorist

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 477
    • Reputation: +801/-5
    • Gender: Male
    A real crisis in the clergy...
    « Reply #3 on: October 02, 2012, 07:43:41 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • CathMomof7, I suggest you don't leave the fora you're informed by. If you feel intimidated now that your handle can be identified, just re-register with a new one (not so identifiable) and let this one go to fallow. When this type discover their threats are effective, they only become more emboldened & things will get worse for you.

    Offline John Grace

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 5521
    • Reputation: +120/-6
    • Gender: Male
    A real crisis in the clergy...
    « Reply #4 on: October 02, 2012, 07:58:05 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Be assured of my prayers and full support for you and family.


    Offline Canute

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 201
    • Reputation: +143/-0
    A real crisis in the clergy...
    « Reply #5 on: October 02, 2012, 08:21:28 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Skunkwurxsspx
    Thank you for sharing that, CathMomof7. I am sorry that this is happening at your SSPX chapel. Mind-control through the use of psychological guilt and intimidation is a technique most unworthy of a man of God. If it is unacceptable as a means of communication amongst loved ones at home, it has even less of a place at Church.

    The abusive, bullying style is a classic tell-tale sign that its proponent has run out of intelligent arguments rooted in the truth.

    What caught my attention as I was reading through your description was how the priest in question discouraged the use of the internet--especially as it related to reading up on the crisis within the SSPX. Though the SSPX chapel I attend is far from the situation you describe (so far), its out-going prior expressed the very same admonition in his last sermon--adding that he "knew" that some of the bloggers were from our chapel. Creepy, eh?  



    In closing, I will say that the only (materially) effective means of dealing with a bully is to call his bluff and thereby knock the wind right out of his sail. This means (ideally) the faithful of your chapel uniting as a cohesive force and publically standing up for the one wrongfully denied Holy Communion--telling the bullying priest in no uncertain terms that he needs to get his act together or leave. But as long as this person feels he can divide and intimidate, expect no end to the chaos and abuse anytime soon. Abusers keep abusing with impunity because they think they can. There is a certain puffed-up "invincibility" factor that is well overdue for a kind but firm "deflating," it seems.  


    I would like to hear the priests side of the story.

    What is "creepy" here, Skunk, is that everyone assumes that everything "CathMomof7" says is true, even though we don't know her real identity or whether she is a credible person. Then you all pile on, calling the priest a "bully" and hollering about "abuse" and mind control.

    How about controlling your OWN mind first — as in NOT MAKING RASH JUDGEMENTS — and then working on not "abusing" your tongue (or keyboard) by always assuming the worst is true?

    Offline gladius_veritatis

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 6172
    • Reputation: +1234/-0
    • Gender: Male
    A real crisis in the clergy...
    « Reply #6 on: October 02, 2012, 08:22:43 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: CathMomof7
    Two weeks ago, we had a lengthy sermon regarding the 10th rule, specifically how it is necessary for us to obey our superiors and not speak ill of them.


    No one in Traddieland is a legitimate superior with a canonical mission to govern anyone.  They need to learn and accept the facts...and cut their endless nonsense.  Cannot say much now, but I am sorry for your trouble and will pray for you and yours.  Godspeed.
    + Vincit veritas +

    Offline Canute

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 201
    • Reputation: +143/-0
    A real crisis in the clergy...
    « Reply #7 on: October 02, 2012, 08:26:12 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: gladius_veritatis
    Quote from: CathMomof7
    Two weeks ago, we had a lengthy sermon regarding the 10th rule, specifically how it is necessary for us to obey our superiors and not speak ill of them.


    No one in Traddieland is a legitimate superior with a canonical mission to govern anyone.  They need to learn and accept the facts...and cut their endless nonsense.  .

    And the same goes for you.


    Offline padrepio

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 177
    • Reputation: +0/-0
    A real crisis in the clergy...
    « Reply #8 on: October 02, 2012, 08:41:27 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • I have a thought for canute, why don't you, or anyone, that is unsure there are problems with the SSPX authority, talk about the deal with Rome, about expelled priests, websites that point out the issues, pass along cd's from Father Pfeiffer or Chazal, and then let us know the priests reaction.

    Offline Telesphorus

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 12714
    • Reputation: +7/-12
    • Gender: Male
    A real crisis in the clergy...
    « Reply #9 on: October 02, 2012, 08:50:38 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Canute
    I would like to hear the priests side of the story.


    You mean, you don't care if the priest just makes some excuse, you're siding with the priest, and you're going to RASHLY cast suspicion on this woman's words.  She hasn't even named the priest.  She simply recounting what she heard.  There's no reason to disbelieve her.

    Quote
    What is "creepy" here, Skunk, is that everyone assumes that everything "CathMomof7" says is true, even though we don't know her real identity or whether she is a credible person.


    There's absolutely no reason to believe she's not telling the truth.  

    Quote
    Then you all pile on, calling the priest a "bully" and hollering about "abuse" and mind control.


    Then the cult freaks come out of the woodwork to say someone is fake, not real, crazy.

    Quote
    How about controlling your OWN mind first — as in NOT MAKING RASH JUDGEMENTS — and then working on not "abusing" your tongue (or keyboard) by always assuming the worst is true?


    How about lifting your head out of the sand.

    You DON'T HAVE THE RIGHT to cast aspersions on cathmom's credibility, just because she says something about your precious cult priests.

    THAT is rash judgment.

    Offline Belloc

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 6601
    • Reputation: +614/-0
    • Gender: Male
    A real crisis in the clergy...
    « Reply #10 on: October 02, 2012, 09:33:49 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Canute
    Quote from: gladius_veritatis
    Quote from: CathMomof7
    Two weeks ago, we had a lengthy sermon regarding the 10th rule, specifically how it is necessary for us to obey our superiors and not speak ill of them.


    No one in Traddieland is a legitimate superior with a canonical mission to govern anyone.  They need to learn and accept the facts...and cut their endless nonsense.  .

    And the same goes for you.


    GV has been gone from CI for a year now, give or take....
    Proud "European American" and prouder, still, Catholic


    Offline Belloc

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 6601
    • Reputation: +614/-0
    • Gender: Male
    A real crisis in the clergy...
    « Reply #11 on: October 02, 2012, 09:39:48 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: CathMomof7
    This priest declared that we did not have permission to pass around a petition.  That what was being done was not only disrespectful but disobedient.  


    Oook, so, you all asked for a different time for Mass and he went :really-mad2: and some how a petition for a different time now equals, what, heresy? This is an over the top reaction and response......yet these types think THEY are the sons of ABL, when in the 70's, they would be quick to attack ABL as many did for "disobediance"
    There is a good video compilation on + Williamson on youtube that a "Iamsteak" did, yet he has posted updates on descriptions now 2x stating he thinks + WIlliamson is a nut and disobediantto Fellay,et al and states he, Fellay and others are the "true sonsof ABL"...really?? I posted a response and last I saw, its in "moderation"...will see if it gets posted and if so, the  :fryingpan: :really-mad2: :argue: that follows my short "o really, what a crock" response....
    Proud "European American" and prouder, still, Catholic

    Offline Belloc

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 6601
    • Reputation: +614/-0
    • Gender: Male
    A real crisis in the clergy...
    « Reply #12 on: October 02, 2012, 09:42:02 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Canute
    Quote from: Skunkwurxsspx
    Thank you for sharing that, CathMomof7. I am sorry that this is happening at your SSPX chapel. Mind-control through the use of psychological guilt and intimidation is a technique most unworthy of a man of God. If it is unacceptable as a means of communication amongst loved ones at home, it has even less of a place at Church.

    The abusive, bullying style is a classic tell-tale sign that its proponent has run out of intelligent arguments rooted in the truth.

    What caught my attention as I was reading through your description was how the priest in question discouraged the use of the internet--especially as it related to reading up on the crisis within the SSPX. Though the SSPX chapel I attend is far from the situation you describe (so far), its out-going prior expressed the very same admonition in his last sermon--adding that he "knew" that some of the bloggers were from our chapel. Creepy, eh?  



    In closing, I will say that the only (materially) effective means of dealing with a bully is to call his bluff and thereby knock the wind right out of his sail. This means (ideally) the faithful of your chapel uniting as a cohesive force and publically standing up for the one wrongfully denied Holy Communion--telling the bullying priest in no uncertain terms that he needs to get his act together or leave. But as long as this person feels he can divide and intimidate, expect no end to the chaos and abuse anytime soon. Abusers keep abusing with impunity because they think they can. There is a certain puffed-up "invincibility" factor that is well overdue for a kind but firm "deflating," it seems.  


    I would like to hear the priests side of the story.

    What is "creepy" here, Skunk, is that everyone assumes that everything "CathMomof7" says is true, even though we don't know her real identity or whether she is a credible person. Then you all pile on, calling the priest a "bully" and hollering about "abuse" and mind control.

    How about controlling your OWN mind first — as in NOT MAKING RASH JUDGEMENTS — and then working on not "abusing" your tongue (or keyboard) by always assuming the worst is true?


    and we dont know YOUR real identity, either! If said priest wishes to respond, either in a thread, a letter, a email to Matthew,etc, fine and good......your response is a bit revealing as you seem to either be a priest, that priest or a supporter, your response and capitalizing letters is a touch over the "lets be charitable"
    Proud "European American" and prouder, still, Catholic

    Offline Belloc

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 6601
    • Reputation: +614/-0
    • Gender: Male
    A real crisis in the clergy...
    « Reply #13 on: October 02, 2012, 09:43:14 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: gladius_veritatis
    Quote from: CathMomof7
    Two weeks ago, we had a lengthy sermon regarding the 10th rule, specifically how it is necessary for us to obey our superiors and not speak ill of them.


    No one in Traddieland is a legitimate superior with a canonical mission to govern anyone.  They need to learn and accept the facts...and cut their endless nonsense.  Cannot say much now, but I am sorry for your trouble and will pray for you and yours.  Godspeed.


    Hey, GV, your back!!!! :applause: :dancing-banana:
    I thought Canute pulled up an old post.......welcome!! I came back in August after something like 19 months away!!!!

    GV back, excellant
    Proud "European American" and prouder, still, Catholic

    Offline Canute

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 201
    • Reputation: +143/-0
    A real crisis in the clergy...
    « Reply #14 on: October 02, 2012, 09:50:20 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: padrepio
    I have a thought for canute, why don't you, or anyone, that is unsure there are problems with the SSPX authority, talk about the deal with Rome, about expelled priests, websites that point out the issues, pass along cd's from Father Pfeiffer or Chazal, and then let us know the priests reaction.

    I understand why everyone is worrying about the deal and wants to get as much information about it as possible, from the Internet or otherwise. There's nothing wrong with that because of what is at stake.

    But CathMomof7's post was not a complaint about some issue of faith, but over how a priest reacted to people signing a petition over MASS TIMES. Why go on a forum to attack him about something so small? And then say he's a bully or a mind controller too?

    It's an overreaction, don't you think?

    And CathMomof7, put yourself in the priest's place. What if your seven children wrote up a petition to demand steak and ice cream for dinner every night, even though you have no way of giving it to them? Would they have the right to get on this forum and complain about you so people like Skunk and Telly could say that you are guilty of abuse and mind-control?

    Or would you be at least a little offended that your seven children didn't have more respect for your authority? I know what my reaction would be.

     

    Sitemap 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16