Author Topic: A Letter to Bp. Faure (Read 18061 times)

Neil Obstat · « **Reply #50 on:** September 01, 2015, 02:28:36 AM »

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It took me a good while to find this thread again, once I picked up the copy of issue 29 and found the place I was thinking about. I came close to giving up finding this thread, since the thread title isn't the same thing as the topic of my concern here.

Quote from: hollingsworth

NO:
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And THAT comes in the latter half of an issue that opens with a relentless (but well-written) some 20+ pages exposing the duplicity (my word) of +Williamson inasmuch as he says the N.O. liturgy is okay at least sometimes (when it's valid, obviously) for some people, and that everyone must make up their own mind, even though as an outgrowth of the heresies of Vat.II it is objectively dangerous to the faith of Catholics.

Don't get me wrong, I am not taking a stand one way or the other, but I'm watching this thing take shape just as October approaches, when several well-informed sources warn that we may well expect the CHASTISEMENT to begin.

Neil, I'm not sure the bishop ever said that "the N.O. liturgy is okay at least sometimes." I'd be very careful before circulating any idea like that.

Thanks for the correction. I should be more careful. Now I see how easy it is to slip over to thinking something was said when it wasn't.

Here are the two paragraphs in all of issue 29 that made me think that way:

Quote from: Page 7

There are cases where even the Novus Ordo Mass can be attended with an effect of building one's Faith instead of losing it. That's almost heresy within Tradition. But that's what I think. But I hope it's clear that I don't therefore say the Novus Ordo Mass is good, the new religion is good, all Novus Ordo priests are good. That's obviously not the case. Generally it's a tremendous danger, because the new religion is very seductive. It's very soft and sweet and sticky and it's easy to go with it an lose the Catholic Faith.

But exceptionally, if you're watching and praying, even there you may find the grace of God. If you do, make use of it in order to sanctify your soul... Therefore I will not say every single person must stay away from every single Novus Ordo Mass. If they can trust their own judgment that attending this N.O. Mass will do more good than harm spiritually, ...[shrug]... But there's no doubt that it does more harm than good spiritually, there's no doubt about that. It's a rite designed to undermine Catholics' Faith and to turn their belief away from God and towards man.

I was attempting to be brief, and the compressed version crossed the line, or so it seems.

Instead of saying, "the N.O. liturgy is okay at least sometimes," I could have said, "the Novus Ordo Mass can be attended with an effect of building one's Faith instead of losing it. If you're watching and praying, even there you may find the grace of God. If you do, make use of it in order to sanctify your soul. If you can trust your own judgment that attending this N.O. Mass will do more good than harm spiritually, ...[shrug]..."

But that's a lot to remember in a world of sound bytes!! HAHAHAHA

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hollingsworth · « **Reply #51 on:** September 01, 2015, 09:29:59 AM »

Neil O:

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The truth will out, eventually.

I have shared the current Recusant (which contains the LETTER to +Faure) with several friends and they're really disenchanted with the whole affair. We are all supposed to be Catholic, and on TOP of that "traditional." Where is the virtue in splintering the remnant in to broken shards of would-be pottery?

Why is there such a bent among Trads to sow infighting? It is unbecoming of our claim to have the One True Faith. How can we attract converts when we can't get along with each other?

No doubt your sentiments are sincerely expressed. "Trads" are severely splintered, it is true. Have these "Trads," whom, I assume, you would identify as lay people, for the most part, done the actual sowing of discord? Surely, in some cases. And maybe I myself, as a lay person, have been guilty of this from time to time. But the real sowers of "infighting," as you put it, are not laymen. They are clergy. They are clergy historically. They are clergy now presently.

I am persuaded, subject of course to correction, that the writers of this letter to Fr. Faure were not the original sowers. They merely helped spread seeds of dissension which had already been sown in their hearts by another.

JPaul · « **Reply #52 on:** September 01, 2015, 09:55:21 AM »

Neil Obstat,

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Page 7 said:
There are cases where even the Novus Ordo Mass can be attended with an effect of building one's Faith instead of losing it. That's almost heresy within Tradition. But that's what I think. But I hope it's clear that I don't therefore say the Novus Ordo Mass is good, the new religion is good, all Novus Ordo priests are good. That's obviously not the case. Generally it's a tremendous danger, because the new religion is very seductive. It's very soft and sweet and sticky and it's easy to go with it an lose the Catholic Faith.

But exceptionally, if you're watching and praying, even there you may find the grace of God. If you do, make use of it in order to sanctify your soul... Therefore I will not say every single person must stay away from every single Novus Ordo Mass. If they can trust their own judgment that attending this N.O. Mass will do more good than harm spiritually, ...[shrug]... But there's no doubt that it does more harm than good spiritually, there's no doubt about that. It's a rite designed to undermine Catholics' Faith and to turn their belief away from God and towards man.

I am sure that is not lost on you that objectively, these statements and the thinking behind them are self contradictory and very dangerous as they can confuse and misdirect Catholic souls seeking sound counsel.

JPaul · « **Reply #53 on:** September 01, 2015, 10:04:16 AM »

Neil Obstat,

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Why is there such a bent among Trads to sow infighting? It is unbecoming of our claim to have the One True Faith. How can we attract converts when we can't get along with each other?

I believe the answer lies in the individualist sectarian spirit which feels that it will only belong to the larger group on its own terms and when it suits its particular interests.
The Society of Saint Pius X had no small part in fostering these ideas and the resistance so called have inherited that same character. The core of the sedevacantist Bishops had SSPX formation and display this spirit of separatism as well. Summed up, seeing the other as Competitors not Brethren.

Matthew · « **Reply #54 on:** September 01, 2015, 10:21:58 AM »

For frail human beings, it's also personal.

Question: which Traditional Catholic school is more likely to give your child a better education? A well-funded school with 50 children, or a splintered school with 25 children and several new teachers (because several quit)?

I think the answer is self-evident. The larger the school, the more resources and the more specialized teachers they can afford. The more teachers on staff (a direct result of a larger budget), the richer the education the children are likely to receive -- the quality goes up. The more support a school gets, the less "rinky dink" the school will be.

So as you can see, in a situation like the one we're in today, it becomes "personal" for many young families with children. "My child isn't going to get as good an education now, and I sure can't homeschool (or I would be doing that all along, instead of messing with SSPX schools)."

See how it happens? Your child's future is now affected by this whole "resistance" thing. It's enough to bias people against it for purely human reasons.