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Author Topic: A clarification, and defense of Fr. Johnson, SSPX, from a calumny  (Read 20838 times)

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Offline donkath

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A clarification, and defense of Fr. Johnson, SSPX, from a calumny
« Reply #60 on: June 03, 2014, 10:50:00 PM »
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  • Quote from: Neil Obstat
    .

    Can you describe for me the difference between subjective reality and private opinion, donkath?   Do you think there is any difference, or, do you think they are two different terms referring to the same thing?

    Or, are you more comfortable in explaining how you feel about it?.


    Hi Neil!

    There is a vast difference between subjective reality and private opinion

    I like this definition: Subjectivity reality  manipulates the boundary between fantasy and reality.

    An opinion is a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty.

    Quote
    OBJECTIVE OR SUBJECTIVE
    WHAT IS THE TRUE NATURE OF REALITY?

    As I see it, there are only two viable possibilities for the nature of reality and how it relates to our personal experience of life. Either reality is completely external to us - something we are born into and have very limited control over. Or, it is entirely internal, meaning all of reality is a projection of our inner being.

    The first view is known as Objective Reality, the other describes Subjective Reality, or Solipsism. These are the two extreme and polar positions. It is possible to posit a third alternative of some combination of external and internal, but for reasons I will elucidate in a bit, I do not believe that is a viable possibility.

    So why is the question of the true nature of reality even important? Because how we answer this question determines everything - literally EVERYTHING we experience on personal, cultural and global scales.       http://www.province-of-the-mind.com/objective-subjective-reality.html
    "In His wisdom," says St. Gregory, "almighty God preferred rather to bring good out of evil than never allow evil to occur."

    Offline holyfamily

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    A clarification, and defense of Fr. Johnson, SSPX, from a calumny
    « Reply #61 on: June 03, 2014, 10:55:08 PM »
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  • Ah ok, now I understand. I think it's a shame. I am not a member of that forum, but read posts there from time to time, and remember reading yours.  As far as I recall, you were never disrespectful or belligerent to warrant posts being deleted.  It further confirms for me part of the reason why I never cared to join in over there. I am sorry that happened to you.


    Offline donkath

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    A clarification, and defense of Fr. Johnson, SSPX, from a calumny
    « Reply #62 on: June 03, 2014, 10:57:43 PM »
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  • Quote from: holyfamily
    Ah ok, now I understand. I think it's a shame. I am not a member of that forum, but read posts there from time to time, and remember reading yours.  As far as I recall, you were never disrespectful or belligerent to warrant posts being deleted.  It further confirms for me part of the reason why I never cared to join in over there. I am sorry that happened to you.


    You are very kind.
    "In His wisdom," says St. Gregory, "almighty God preferred rather to bring good out of evil than never allow evil to occur."

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    A clarification, and defense of Fr. Johnson, SSPX, from a calumny
    « Reply #63 on: June 04, 2014, 12:59:45 AM »
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  • Quote from: donkath
    Quote from: Neil Obstat
    .

    Can you describe for me the difference between subjective reality and private opinion, donkath?   Do you think there is any difference, or, do you think they are two different terms referring to the same thing?

    Or, are you more comfortable in explaining how you feel about it?.


    Hi Neil!

    There is a vast difference between subjective reality and private opinion

    I like this definition: Subjectivity reality  manipulates the boundary between fantasy and reality.


    It seems to me there is a flaw in this definition. It seems to make subjective reality per se into a quasi-person, by saying that it manipulates something.  The term "manipulation" implies an act of man, especially (but not exclusively) because a root of this word is manus, or "hand."  The Latin word for "manipulate" is tractare, to haul around, to handle, to manage or control, which further exemplifies this theme.  It takes a person to do these things, unless it is a brute animal acting something like a person.  Only a person has a hand, and we say that somebody 'has a hand' in something if that person is contributing to it.  

    Therefore, would it not seem more accurate for the sake of definition if it were the person who practices subjective reality, or believes in it, who would be doing the manipulation, donkath?


    Quote
    An opinion is a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty.

    Quote

    OBJECTIVE OR SUBJECTIVE
    WHAT IS THE TRUE NATURE OF REALITY?

    As I see it, there are only two viable possibilities for the nature of reality and how it relates to our personal experience of life. Either reality is completely external to us - something we are born into and have very limited control over. Or, it is entirely internal, meaning all of reality is a projection of our inner being.

    The first view is known as Objective Reality, the other describes Subjective Reality, or Solipsism. These are the two extreme and polar positions. It is possible to posit a third alternative of some combination of external and internal, but for reasons I will elucidate in a bit, I do not believe that is a viable possibility.

    So why is the question of the true nature of reality even important? Because how we answer this question determines everything - literally EVERYTHING we experience on personal, cultural and global scales.      

    http://www.province-of-the-mind.com/objective-subjective-reality.html



    Who is the author of the quoted passage above?


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    Offline donkath

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    A clarification, and defense of Fr. Johnson, SSPX, from a calumny
    « Reply #64 on: June 04, 2014, 01:20:38 AM »
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  • Neil said:
    Quote
    Therefore, would it not seem more accurate for the sake of definition if it were the person who practices subjective reality, or believes in it, who would be doing the manipulation, donkath?


    Yes. I think that is a more accurate definition.  Good thinking!

    Quote
    Who is the author of the quoted passage above?


    I do not know Neil.  I came across the blog and thought it interesting.  I went to the home page and it seems that the blog owner is a John Lilly.  Could be a Doctor Dara Fogul (????)


    "In His wisdom," says St. Gregory, "almighty God preferred rather to bring good out of evil than never allow evil to occur."


    Offline Neil Obstat

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    A clarification, and defense of Fr. Johnson, SSPX, from a calumny
    « Reply #65 on: June 04, 2014, 01:58:30 AM »
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  • Quote from: MaterDominici
    Quote from: Neil Obstat
    ...after reading the excoriating drivel of John Lane I had been under the impression that some manner of retraction would be in order.  As it is, I'm at liberty to retype the entire paragraph [from The Recusant] here:



    Australian neo-SSPX:  more unjust threats
     - Fr. Shane Johnson, Western Australia, used a recent sermon to attack those who had signed the AustralAsian Declaration [a copy of which appears on pp. 25-31 of the same issue], saying that they needed to be humiliated and do public penance before they would be allowed back to Mass and the sacraments.



    I was thinking the same.


    In case anyone was not sure of the source, I was quoting The Recusant Issue #16, p. 35, in the SSPX Watch! section.  

    The AstralAsian Declaration (less the signatures) that Lane et.al. is all upset about, is found on 6 pp. starting with p.25 of Issue 16.

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