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Author Topic: 87-year-old denied communion for hosting Bp Williamson  (Read 20192 times)

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Offline Matthew

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87-year-old denied communion for hosting Bp Williamson
« on: May 22, 2015, 10:00:00 AM »
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  • In March of this year the SSPX prior of Perpignan, Fr. de la Motte, begins refusing the sacraments to an 87-year-old lady (Mrs. V.) who has dedicated herself to the local chapel for many decades. She is guilty of having invited Bishop Williamson to her home one Sunday so as to assist at Mass, listen to a conference on antiliberal encyclicals and presumably drink tea with His Excellency and a few friends. When one of the faithful inquires as to what public sin permits the refusal of the sacraments in this case, Fr. de la Motte asserts that Mrs. V.'s situation is "not complicated" and that he had threatened punishment when he first became aware of her plans to host Bishop Williamson. All she has to do, he says, is to write a letter apologizing for this invitation and promising to refrain from proselytizing for the False [sic] Resistance and having "any Resistance personality" [sic] at her home in the future.

    A desperate Mrs. V. asks one of Fr. de la Motte's vicars how she will be able to fulfill her Easter Duty. He condescendingly answers that she can go to the local FSSP parish instead. Around the same time Fr. Christian "no deicide" Bouchacourt, District Superior of France, is alerted. He replies that Fr. de la Motte's actions "went neither against faith nor morals" as inviting Bishop Williamson's to one's home "is not good morally" [sic] given his role as a "subversive" who is "acting like a wolf" and "dividing tradition". It is important to obey these orders as "the role of a prior to ensure the unity of his flock", and, in any case "the organization of a priory is not democratic".

    While all this is happening, Fr. de la Motte decides to join the Conciliar Church, becoming a member of the Priestly Fraternity of St. Peter. Fr. Rousseau, previously distinguished by his outspoken opposition to last year's false canonizations (which earned him a slap on the wrist from Bishop Fellay), is brought in as an emergency prior. After his announcement, Fr. de la Motte is allowed to celebrate a "goodbye" mass at the Perpignan chapel, with Fr. Rousseau in the confessional. One of his former vicars speaks up to explain that "Fr. de la Motte is leaving the SSPX to put himself at the service of the Diocese of Versailles" [sic] and asks all those present to abstain from any rash judgment.

    The change of prior has few practical consequences, and Fr. Rousseau continues the policy of extortion begun by his predecessor. Mrs. V., overwhelmed by the pressure, gives in.

    Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you the future SSPX.

    For those who can read French, here is the blog post which originally reported this story: http://www.lasapiniere.info/archives/2148
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    Offline wallflower

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    « Reply #1 on: May 22, 2015, 10:08:09 AM »
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  • So sickening.


    Offline wallflower

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    « Reply #2 on: May 22, 2015, 10:28:22 AM »
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  • Does anyone have a good resource about when Communion can legitimately be denied?




    Offline PerEvangelicaDicta

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    « Reply #3 on: May 22, 2015, 11:18:44 AM »
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  • Quote from: wallflower

    Does anyone have a good resource about when Communion can legitimately be denied?





    Excellent question.  Perhaps this priest is unjustly interpreting something obscure.  Upon review, we'll then know if this is an act of revenge and/or blackmail, using the Holy Body of Our Savior to do so, which sounds like a serious sin of his own vs the apparent good and innocent intentions of Mrs. V.  

    Offline covet truth

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    « Reply #4 on: May 22, 2015, 11:40:45 AM »
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  • What was done to Mrs. V. by the SSPX priest is bad enough but what's more telling is that the same priest leaves to join the FSSP and his parish holds a "goodbye" Mass as if what he is doing is perfectly acceptable.  Imagine this happening when the Archbishop was alive.  And they tell us that nothing has changed in the SSPX!  


    Offline Stubborn

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    « Reply #5 on: May 22, 2015, 12:14:08 PM »
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  • Quote from: wallflower

    Does anyone have a good resource about when Communion can legitimately be denied?





    From SSPX
    Must a priest follow certain criteria if he is to refuse Holy Communion to the faithful?

    A priest does not have the right to refuse Holy Communion arbitrarily. He must follow the requirements of Canon Law, which prescribes to whom he must refuse Holy Communion, and to whom he must administer it. This law is to be found in Canon 855, §1:

        Catholics who are publicly known to be unworthy (for example, those who have been excommunicated or interdicted or who are manifestly of ill repute) must be refused Holy Communion until their repentance and amendment have been established, and satisfaction has been made for the public scandal which they have given.

    The essential part of this law is that a Catholic must be a public sinner, or publicly unworthy, to be refused the sacrament of Holy Communion. This is the case, for example, of a person who has publicly performed abortions, or voted for legislation in favor of abortion; or of a father who would have had his children baptized and raised in an heretical sect; or giving membership to the Communist party, or public concubinage; or of persons divorced and remarried outside the Church or convicted of civil crimes such as pedophilia.

    However, the Church is very clear that Holy Communion cannot be refused to a person who is not a public sinner, that is if his sin is not sufficiently well known in the community at the present time. For to refuse Holy Communion to a person who is not known to many people as one who publicly breaks the commandments of God would be to defame his good name and destroy his reputation, which a person has a right to in justice, even if he is a hidden sinner. It is only by public sin that he loses this right, for he has lost his reputation. However, if such a hidden sinner were to ask the priest in private to receive Holy Communion, or whether or not he can go to Holy Communion, the priest would be obliged to forbid him to go to Holy Communion, and this even though he could not refuse him Holy Communion if he were to request it publicly at the communion rail. This is explained in the second half of Canon 855: “Occult sinners, who secretly ask for Holy Communion, shall be refused by the minister if he knows that they have not amended; if, however, they seek Communion publicly and the priest cannot pass them by without scandal, he shall not refuse them.” It is truly sad for a priest to be obliged to administer a sacrilegious Communion, but if he cannot convince them privately to abstain from going to Holy Communion, then he must do so.

    The question can sometimes arise, not of hidden or occult sins, but of public attitudes that persons might take against the Church, but which are not public sins. There are some people who lack respect for their priests, refuse to follow their advice and counsel, who cause dissension in a parish by gossip and similar means. In general, they are not to be considered as public sinners or publicly unworthy, unless they openly promote teachings that are opposed to Catholic Faith and morality, or unless they incite other parishioners to direct disobedience and disrespect towards their pastors. On occasion, sedevacantists and Feeneyites have fallen into this category.

    Also, when parents obstinately refuse their very grave duty of educating their children in the Catholic Faith, as required by canon 1113, and instead educate them in a non-Catholic religion, they must be refused Holy Communion. Canon 2319 (1917 Code of Canon Law) stated that they are to be treated as excommunicated, and consequently refused the sacraments.

    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline wallflower

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    « Reply #6 on: May 22, 2015, 12:20:07 PM »
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  • Thank you! I am going to print that off for future reference and discussion.

    Their own words rebuke them. It makes me angry and heartbroken all at once.


    Offline Stubborn

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    « Reply #7 on: May 22, 2015, 12:21:27 PM »
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  • Quote from: wallflower

    Thank you! I am going to print that off for future reference and discussion.

    Their own words rebuke them. It makes me angry and heartbroken all at once.



    You said it. Makes me very angry.
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse


    Offline PerEvangelicaDicta

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    « Reply #8 on: May 22, 2015, 12:43:28 PM »
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  • Stubborn said:
    Quote
    The question can sometimes arise, not of hidden or occult sins, but of public attitudes that persons might take against the Church, but which are not public sins. There are some people who lack respect for their priests, refuse to follow their advice and counsel, who cause dissension in a parish by gossip and similar means. In general, they are not to be considered as public sinners or publicly unworthy, unless they openly promote teachings that are opposed to Catholic Faith and morality, or unless they incite other parishioners to direct disobedience and disrespect towards their pastors.


    Stubborn, this is what I meant about unjust interpretation of law and my theory as to his justification.  

    Does Mrs. V. have a venue of appeal?

    Offline Matthew

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    « Reply #9 on: May 22, 2015, 12:56:10 PM »
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  • Quote from: covet truth
    What was done to Mrs. V. by the SSPX priest is bad enough but what's more telling is that the same priest leaves to join the FSSP and his parish holds a "goodbye" Mass as if what he is doing is perfectly acceptable.  Imagine this happening when the Archbishop was alive.  And they tell us that nothing has changed in the SSPX!  


    Indeed! It's as if going back to the diocese is just "one path we can take" and that we're "all the same". Sounds a lot like the mindset of the Conciliar Church!

    Agreeing to disagree is one thing -- you can't force a priest to stay. But if a priest is going to go back to the Novus Ordo, or pretend to marry a woman, you can't condone the action with a "good bye and God speed" party!
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    Offline Stubborn

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    « Reply #10 on: May 22, 2015, 12:59:48 PM »
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  • Quote from: PerEvangelicaDicta
    Stubborn said:
    Quote
    The question can sometimes arise, not of hidden or occult sins, but of public attitudes that persons might take against the Church, but which are not public sins. There are some people who lack respect for their priests, refuse to follow their advice and counsel, who cause dissension in a parish by gossip and similar means. In general, they are not to be considered as public sinners or publicly unworthy, unless they openly promote teachings that are opposed to Catholic Faith and morality, or unless they incite other parishioners to direct disobedience and disrespect towards their pastors.


    Stubborn, this is what I meant about unjust interpretation of law and my theory as to his justification.  

    Does Mrs. V. have a venue of appeal?


    She should be justified to go in there with a big stick to appeal that priest over his stupid head imo.

    He has no justification. I know that under pain of mortal sin it is the duty of every priest to deny Communion to public sinners.

    Seems like it must be a mortal sin to deny Communion to any Catholic if they are not known to be public sinners. Certainly the priest cannot possibly be justified in denying Communion to this 87 year old lady who has dedicated herself to the upkeep of that chapel, for having met with +Williamson.

    What would that priest do if she met with some NO bishop? It's a very bad situation.

     

    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse


    Offline PerEvangelicaDicta

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    « Reply #11 on: May 22, 2015, 01:10:48 PM »
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  • Quote
    She should be justified to go in there with a big stick to appeal that priest over his stupid head imo.


    I have a hilarious mental image of that.  I pray she does get a little militant and doesn't take this lying down.

    Fwiw, I wasn't justifying his probable reasoning, just saying that I'd lay odds he is unjustly interpreting that piece of Canon law; i.e., she hosted +W thus caused scandal.


    Offline 1st Mansion Tenant

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    « Reply #12 on: May 22, 2015, 01:12:44 PM »
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  • Quote from: Stubborn


    What would that priest do if she met with some NO bishop? It's a very bad situation.

     



    Probably ask for an introduction. :thinking:

    Offline Stubborn

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    « Reply #13 on: May 22, 2015, 01:17:36 PM »
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  • Quote from: PerEvangelicaDicta
    Quote
    She should be justified to go in there with a big stick to appeal that priest over his stupid head imo.


    I have a hilarious mental image of that.  I pray she does get a little militant and doesn't take this lying down.

    Fwiw, I wasn't justifying his probable reasoning, just saying that I'd lay odds he is unjustly interpreting that piece of Canon law; i.e., she hosted +W thus caused scandal.



    I highly doubt he used canon law at all because he cannot, not under those conditions. He has no leg to stand on here based on the OP. This is a personal thing with him - or she is being used as an example, a deterrent so others avoid the Resistance - or he is seeking to please or is taking his orders on this directly from his superiors.

    I will say a prayer for that priest, that God gives him his just reward.

    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline Graham

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    « Reply #14 on: May 22, 2015, 01:51:14 PM »
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  • To clarify, the OP is not a translation of the French from La Sapiniere, but an (accurate) adaptation written by LouisB, who should be credited.

    I almost dropped my coffee when I was told about the public "goodbye mass." A priest abandoning the fight should be shuffled out in ignominy.